Speeding, Really a victimless crime?
Discussion
Over the last few weeks, I have read a number of posts and threads where specific PHrs, some most vehemently against the controls over speed have contributed to threads where they are obviously victims of speeding, the last notably was DickDastadly.
I understand from my short time as a member of PH that the general consensus is that speeding is a victimless crime.
DICKDASTADLY HAS BECOME A VICTIM OF SPEEDING
If so, just remember that when you are exceeding a limit that you should not be, someone, somewhere will be a victim of it. EVEN IF IT JUST CAUSES THEM ANNOYANCE, STRESS AND A DESIRE TO VENT THEIR SPLEEN ON THIS SITE!
I understand from my short time as a member of PH that the general consensus is that speeding is a victimless crime.
DICKDASTADLY HAS BECOME A VICTIM OF SPEEDING
If so, just remember that when you are exceeding a limit that you should not be, someone, somewhere will be a victim of it. EVEN IF IT JUST CAUSES THEM ANNOYANCE, STRESS AND A DESIRE TO VENT THEIR SPLEEN ON THIS SITE!
Well said Madcop. I have for a long time taken the opinion that I cannot complain against people speeding past my house if I do the same outside theirs. Probably why I have no points on my licence. But it is still possible to enjoy driving without breaking the limits. I have a new game now. Stick to the limits in the villages and watch the cars infront disappear into the distance. Once you get into the NSL see if you can catch them up before the next village.
Thats a very generalised post isnt it madcop?
I was very
off by getting prosecuted for 77MPH in a NSL dual carrageway in wales at 8am in the morning with no other cars on the road by a scamera van.
In this case I am breaking the law which i acknoledge but it can also been seen in this case that the law needs to be revised in these circumstances.
If it were not for people complaining and doing somthing even as small as voiceing an opinion then we would still be burning witches and men would be walking in front of our cars with a little red flag to announce our presence.
Do the police rigorously enforce the law that states "A London taxi driver must have a bail of hay in the boot" to its full force? No. Becuase its stupid and outdated. And hopefully soon will these redicoulos "handfull of MPH in the right conditions" limits soon be either forgotton or changed because we as the public will not put up with it anymore.
I have no sympathy for those who get caught at "80 in a 30" or whatever but SOME OF THESE LAWS AND RULES NEED TO BE UPDATED AND THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN UNLESS WE MAKE A STAND. Whether it be through the ABD or people coming together in a forum it will, hopefully happen.
PS. I apologise for the spelling mistakes but i cant be bothered to check them right now :|
I was very
off by getting prosecuted for 77MPH in a NSL dual carrageway in wales at 8am in the morning with no other cars on the road by a scamera van. In this case I am breaking the law which i acknoledge but it can also been seen in this case that the law needs to be revised in these circumstances.
If it were not for people complaining and doing somthing even as small as voiceing an opinion then we would still be burning witches and men would be walking in front of our cars with a little red flag to announce our presence.
Do the police rigorously enforce the law that states "A London taxi driver must have a bail of hay in the boot" to its full force? No. Becuase its stupid and outdated. And hopefully soon will these redicoulos "handfull of MPH in the right conditions" limits soon be either forgotton or changed because we as the public will not put up with it anymore.
I have no sympathy for those who get caught at "80 in a 30" or whatever but SOME OF THESE LAWS AND RULES NEED TO BE UPDATED AND THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN UNLESS WE MAKE A STAND. Whether it be through the ABD or people coming together in a forum it will, hopefully happen.
PS. I apologise for the spelling mistakes but i cant be bothered to check them right now :|
Over the last few weeks, I have read a number of posts and threads where specific PHrs, some most vehemently against the controls over speed have contributed to threads where they are obviously victims of speeding, the last notably was DickDastadly.
I understand from my short time as a member of PH that the general consensus is that speeding is a victimless crime.
DICKDASTADLY HAS BECOME A VICTIM OF SPEEDING
If so, just remember that when you are exceeding a limit that you should not be, someone, somewhere will be a victim of it. EVEN IF IT JUST CAUSES THEM ANNOYANCE, STRESS AND A DESIRE TO VENT THEIR SPLEEN ON THIS SITE!
Madcop, much as I appreciate a lot of your input, I would beg to disagree here.
DickDastardly has become a victim of someone driving at an inappropriate speed for the circumstances.
Cooincidentally it sounds as if, in this case, such is in alignment with the numbers on the sticks at the end of his road; but this is not necessarily always the case.
From the general PH approach, I would proffer that most PHers (not all) tend to abide by urban speed limits, and may take a discretionary approach to some NSL/motorway limits. There might be a debate about the appropriateness of this for the circumstances/driver/vehicle. But Mr. DD's case sounds like a case which is clearly inappropriate.
Not black/white, but there's a difference between off-white and dark grey, IYSWIM.
I would disagree to some extent, every time someone exceeds a speed limit they do not instantly create a victim. I would agree that there is possibly an increased potential to create a victim, but equally that is no greater than someone driveing like a tw*t below the limit. Exceeding some arbituary limit that cannot be appropriate to all conditions does not in itself create a vicitim anymore more than it should create a criminal.
I don't think anyone on here is against sensible enforcement of limits particularly in appropriate or dangerous areas. What causes most of us to "VENT OUR SPLEENS" is the increasingly misguided and fanatical enforcement of limits in the expectation that it will solve all problems.
I don't think anyone on here is against sensible enforcement of limits particularly in appropriate or dangerous areas. What causes most of us to "VENT OUR SPLEENS" is the increasingly misguided and fanatical enforcement of limits in the expectation that it will solve all problems.
There is one good example that comes to mind.
You know the speed limit going into London on the M4 was reduced from 50MPH to 40MPH.
If you were caught doing 50 in that 40 you would get done for speeding. Why? No reason. Was it dangerous? Obviously yes because the government said it was
But then they moved the limit from 40 back to 50MPH again.
Does this mean that this limit is now suddenly not dangerous and speed doesnt kill or does it simply mean that the speed limits are set pretty much arbitrarily and with no actual thought to safey whatsoever....
You know the speed limit going into London on the M4 was reduced from 50MPH to 40MPH.
If you were caught doing 50 in that 40 you would get done for speeding. Why? No reason. Was it dangerous? Obviously yes because the government said it was
But then they moved the limit from 40 back to 50MPH again.
Does this mean that this limit is now suddenly not dangerous and speed doesnt kill or does it simply mean that the speed limits are set pretty much arbitrarily and with no actual thought to safey whatsoever....
Excepting residential areas, 'A' roads & motorways should all have variable limits that are determined by weather / visibility conditions & traffic volumes.
That would be much safer and on those early summer mornings with nothing on the M11, allow me to do ***mph without fear of prosecution
That would be much safer and on those early summer mornings with nothing on the M11, allow me to do ***mph without fear of prosecution
Wow, come back from lunch to all this.
Size Nine Elm said:
From the general PH approach, I would proffer that most PHers (not all) tend to abide by urban speed limits, and may take a discretionary approach to some NSL/motorway limits. But Mr. DD's case sounds like a case which is clearly inappropriate.
That is exactly how I view it.
I have no problem whatsoever with people going out on NSL roads and driving above the speed limit so long as they drive within their ability. But people need to start slowing down in residential areas. I once caused an accident from driving too fast (45 ish) in a built up area, an accident which wouldn't have happened if I was doing 30.
This is probably an issue best brought up elsewhere because most of the people I have spoken to on PH acknowledge these points already and drive sensibly, but this guy who screws past my house at 50+ really pisses me off and I hope no-one on here causes the same problem for other people.
Size Nine Elm - that last bit about my case being inappropriate, what is that in reference to? I don't follow you sorry.
dick dastardly said:Size Nine Elm - that last bit about my case being inappropriate, what is that in reference to? I don't follow you sorry.
What I meant was that, in the case you mention, the guy's speed is clearly inappropriate for the circumstances described, as opposed to just being faster than a specified number.
Have to say I just got back from being driven around Germany, and I've never been as close to death as in the past week. The driving is atrocious with people pulling out at about 70mph in front of cars at twice that - brakes screech on, everyone behind slams on theirs including big trucks, come to standstill, gridlock, all starts again. Saw 3 crashes up close and at speed in one day due to this.
Those who call for derestriction on Britain's motorways need to somehow account for the numpty factor which is happening ALL the time. When the roads are clear, it's great, but otherwise it's just plain scary!
Saying that, the whole of German society seems geared towards individual responsibility for one's actions rather than a nanny state. Everyone just seemed to do what they like! My driver (hands clenched white as he tried to coax 180kmph out of his Passat) seemed to be of the opinion "So what if I crash, the insurance will pay?". He also said "If we crash, try and jump out asap before a big truck crushes us". Hmmmm
Those who call for derestriction on Britain's motorways need to somehow account for the numpty factor which is happening ALL the time. When the roads are clear, it's great, but otherwise it's just plain scary!
Saying that, the whole of German society seems geared towards individual responsibility for one's actions rather than a nanny state. Everyone just seemed to do what they like! My driver (hands clenched white as he tried to coax 180kmph out of his Passat) seemed to be of the opinion "So what if I crash, the insurance will pay?". He also said "If we crash, try and jump out asap before a big truck crushes us". Hmmmm
AllTorque said: Have to say I just got back from being driven around Germany, and I've never been as close to death as in the past week. The driving is atrocious with people pulling out at about 70mph in front of cars at twice that - brakes screech on, everyone behind slams on theirs including big trucks, come to standstill, gridlock, all starts again. Saw 3 crashes up close and at speed in one day due to this.
Can only agree with this, the worst 'tailgating' I have ever seen is on the German roads, even in fog or heavy rain.
If so, just remember that when you are exceeding a limit that you should not be, someone, somewhere will be a victim of it. EVEN IF IT JUST CAUSES THEM ANNOYANCE, STRESS AND A DESIRE TO VENT THEIR SPLEEN ON THIS SITE!
madcop - i have only just started reading these forums and some of your coments are extremely constructive and very usefull but in all honesty the above comment is rubbish
i agree with road safety initiatives incl speed cameras but only in accident blackspots and no-one in their right mind can deny that the police are not using speed cameras purely as a revenue generator
speeding can be dangerous as can most things in life but if common sense is applied it does not have to be dangerous
sorry if that offends
>> Edited by wrightster on Wednesday 11th June 17:07
Over the last few weeks, I have read a number of posts and threads where specific PHrs, some most vehemently against the controls over speed have contributed to threads where they are obviously victims of speeding, the last notably was DickDastadly
What you fail to understand is the the vast majority of people on here (myself included) are dead against speeding in residential area's. Whilst anyone with half a brain would not support the stupid traffic calming measures in the form of pinch points and speed humps, I would be most impressed to see a mobile speed unit capturing the assholes that frequently drive at suicidal speeds in my area.
Habitualy speeding in residental areas is most unlikely to be a victimless crime. If you don't kill or maim someone, you are likely to upset a lot of people. It seems odd to pick on DickDastardly's case, when he admits that the drivers that creep over the speed limit going down the hill do not concern him, the delinquents that drive like tits do. It goes beyond simple speeding to dangerous driving in a situation like this.
OTOH exceeding the limit on an open road in good conditions is a different story. I drive on such roads everyday where people regularly exceed the speed limit. To their credit, the scamera partnership have not felt the need to collect their tax on this road, presumably due to the low accident rate. Who is the victim in this case? Ditto almost any number of motorways/dual carriageways where the speed limit can (IMO of course) be safely exceeded under the right conditions.
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