Speeding in the Nationals !
Discussion
I read with interest many threads on here stating that you/us dont condone speeding in built up areas but there doesnt seem to be a problem speeding in the nationals......isnt this a little teensy bit hypocritical?
Do you hold any sort of exemption to speed in the nationals.....are you on a Police driving course......of course not!
Then when you do get caught speeding whether it be by a Gatso, camera van or a Trafpol all that you do is whine like a diff on a 1979 Ford Granada!
If you continue to speed then invarably you will keep the local Trafpols entertained with spectacular crashes resulting in death or injury to either yourself, members of the public going about there everyday business and/or dry stone walls and hedges!
Why not take the punishment on the chin like a normally law abiding citizen.
Everyone makes mistakes but not everyone takes the punishment that they deserve.
Do you hold any sort of exemption to speed in the nationals.....are you on a Police driving course......of course not!
Then when you do get caught speeding whether it be by a Gatso, camera van or a Trafpol all that you do is whine like a diff on a 1979 Ford Granada!
If you continue to speed then invarably you will keep the local Trafpols entertained with spectacular crashes resulting in death or injury to either yourself, members of the public going about there everyday business and/or dry stone walls and hedges!
Why not take the punishment on the chin like a normally law abiding citizen.
Everyone makes mistakes but not everyone takes the punishment that they deserve.
I read with interest many threads on here stating that you/us dont condone speeding in built up areas but there doesnt seem to be a problem speeding in the nationals......isnt this a little teensy bit hypocritical?
**No not really. Speed limits should be assigned to the conditions around whilst still being there to curb the numpties doing whatever. Doing 20MPH outside a school may be too fast during times but afterward 40 or 50MPH may be acceptable. Keeping that limit a 20 or a 30 the rest of the time is rubbish. National speed limits are >NORMALLY< motorways or nice large dual carrageways with no percieved threat for w*nker stepping out in front etc. On a large straight motorway with very little traffic and good conditions what is wrong with 80MPH? There again if there is fog then 70MPH can be faaaarrrr too fast.
The limits are not being set properly or intelligently and the governemnt are cracking down on ONE LAW - the easiest to prosecute on. Do you see a crackdown on people that dont use the correct lanes at a roundabout? No? Thats a surprise. There is no magic laser for that yet but it can still cause severe accidents.
What about a laser gun that can pick up people cutting in traffic lanes? You dont see them monitoring that very often.
The government (any maybe police chiefs) are fully in with the fact that if they keep lowering the speeds people will break the speed limit more and more especially in the nationals, hence they will make more money.
There is no money in catching dangerous drivers so why bother?**
Do you hold any sort of exemption to speed in the nationals.....are you on a Police driving course......of course not!
**No we dont but you are driving illegally everytime you leave your driveway as you dont have a man waving a red flag to announce your presence. Tell you what I will inform the police and they will come and arrest you - no they wont. Why? Because this law is outdated and stupid and soon so will the speeding laws because the british public will crack one day. Just keep pushing Mr B-liar keeeeep pushing...**
Then when you do get caught speeding whether it be by a Gatso, camera van or a Trafpol all that you do is whine like a diff on a 1979 Ford Granada!
*
* And will continue to do so until the laws are changed. The people will whine until somthing is done. Hopefully the whining will get past a forum and move on to somthing that will make the ACPO / government realise that we will NOT TAKE THIS SHIT ANYMORE**
If you continue to speed then invarably you will keep the local Trafpols entertained with spectacular crashes resulting in death or injury to either yourself, members of the public going about there everyday business and/or dry stone walls and hedges!
**Really? I have been breaking the speed limit for nearly 5 years @ 45,000 a year and the only accident I have ever had was the other drivers fault on a roundabout UNDER THE SPEED LIMIT. Tis not speed that causes accidents sir, it is bad driving. If we concentrated on getting the real numpties OFF THE ROAD then there would be no problems, would there? Unless you really would like to make the bold "Speed Kills" statement
Why not take the punishment on the chin like a normally law abiding citizen.
Everyone makes mistakes but not everyone takes the punishment that they deserve.
** Thats true. Had we have done this years and years ago then we would still be burning people for witchcraft. Fantastic thats progress for you. What is it, 7 or 8 out of 10 drivers speed? 7 or 8 out of 10 people dont murder or rape each other do they?
We MUST NOT sit down and take this shit or one day we will be forced out of our cars completly and told what to watch and where to go. Democracy is failing so what else is there? Look at the amount of Gatso's damaged! Look at the newfound lack of public support for the vans etc. These ARE normal law abiding people who have been pushed TOO FAR!**
Rant over! PHew
soulpatch said:
** Thats true. Had we have done this years and years ago then we would still be burning people for witchcraft. Fantastic thats progress for you. What is it, 7 or 8 out of 10 drivers speed? 7 or 8 out of 10 people dont murder or rape each other do they?
We MUST NOT sit down and take this shit or one day we will be forced out of our cars completly and told what to watch and where to go. Democracy is failing so what else is there? Look at the amount of Gatso's damaged! Look at the newfound lack of public support for the vans etc. These ARE normal law abiding people who have been pushed TOO FAR!**
Rant over! PHew
Soulpatch, "Chill out man", That clutcher is ever closer,
GODS TEETH !!!
I cant believe I have just had the misfortune to read the above entry. How typical of the author to place everyone in the same box and then brush us all off with such an elitist attitiude!
Can I assume that the author pushes the family round on a modified rotavator observing the rights and respects of everyone else, living in a make believe eutopia where he never comes into conflict with anyone at all? Then (When the mood takes him) he cruises around in a high powered motor car with his BEK baseball cap on his head and his 80's Ray Ban's pinned to his dish sweeping aside all unsundry at incredible speeds on the public highways? Come on, be honest am I getting warm? I'll throw you a rope and help you down from that soap box you appear to be stranded on!
Get involved in the real world....A's & P's
I cant believe I have just had the misfortune to read the above entry. How typical of the author to place everyone in the same box and then brush us all off with such an elitist attitiude!
Can I assume that the author pushes the family round on a modified rotavator observing the rights and respects of everyone else, living in a make believe eutopia where he never comes into conflict with anyone at all? Then (When the mood takes him) he cruises around in a high powered motor car with his BEK baseball cap on his head and his 80's Ray Ban's pinned to his dish sweeping aside all unsundry at incredible speeds on the public highways? Come on, be honest am I getting warm? I'll throw you a rope and help you down from that soap box you appear to be stranded on!
Get involved in the real world....A's & P's
Soulpatch...
I read your reply with great interest and wish to point out the following.
1)I agree with you on one point in relation to varying speed limits at different times of the day.
Accidents do happen on straight roads at 80mph when theres no other cars around,and more often than you think.
2)You say "Do you see a crackdown on people that dont use the correct lanes at a roundabout? No!
I have news for you....yes there is but obviously not in your town/village.
3) There is money put aside to catch numpty dangerous drivers and its being spent.
4)A well informed statement in relation to a man waving a red flag whenever i leave my driveway!!!! Yawn.
5)People will always winge when they think they are above the law and get caught.
6)Well done that youve been braking the speed limit for NEARLY 5 years and only had one accident.
I wonder how many have been in your rear view mirror?
7)Im interested to learn that you dont think that real numpties are speeders.
8)Your last statement is a little tooooo dramatic for me but you have probably won a few browny points in the reply with a few of the readers on here.
To conclude.....
Im with Gemini on this one...sadly a few people on here need to get a broader outlook on life and remember, Speed limits are to be obeyed or take the punishment like a man!
I read your reply with great interest and wish to point out the following.
1)I agree with you on one point in relation to varying speed limits at different times of the day.
Accidents do happen on straight roads at 80mph when theres no other cars around,and more often than you think.
2)You say "Do you see a crackdown on people that dont use the correct lanes at a roundabout? No!
I have news for you....yes there is but obviously not in your town/village.
3) There is money put aside to catch numpty dangerous drivers and its being spent.
4)A well informed statement in relation to a man waving a red flag whenever i leave my driveway!!!! Yawn.
5)People will always winge when they think they are above the law and get caught.
6)Well done that youve been braking the speed limit for NEARLY 5 years and only had one accident.
I wonder how many have been in your rear view mirror?
7)Im interested to learn that you dont think that real numpties are speeders.
8)Your last statement is a little tooooo dramatic for me but you have probably won a few browny points in the reply with a few of the readers on here.
To conclude.....
Im with Gemini on this one...sadly a few people on here need to get a broader outlook on life and remember, Speed limits are to be obeyed or take the punishment like a man!
I think youre just winding him and others up.
Do YOU ever speed mate?
Course ya do, but youve done the courses and all that training, so its ok for you bend the rules if ya fancy it.
Methinks Soulpatch is a bit angry at the moment, i dont blame him. Incidentally, ive exceeded the "limits" almost every day ive driven, never had an acident (at speed) never seen any in the mirror.....must be doing something right or perhaps im "just lucky".
Do YOU ever speed mate?
Course ya do, but youve done the courses and all that training, so its ok for you bend the rules if ya fancy it.
Methinks Soulpatch is a bit angry at the moment, i dont blame him. Incidentally, ive exceeded the "limits" almost every day ive driven, never had an acident (at speed) never seen any in the mirror.....must be doing something right or perhaps im "just lucky".
tonyrec said: Soulpatch...
I read your reply with great interest and wish to point out the following.
1)I agree with you on one point in relation to varying speed limits at different times of the day.
Accidents do happen on straight roads at 80mph when theres no other cars around,and more often than you think.
Can you please supply the statistics to back up your claim?
2)You say "Do you see a crackdown on people that dont use the correct lanes at a roundabout? No!
I have news for you....yes there is but obviously not in your town/village.
Where is the evidence for this?
3) There is money put aside to catch numpty dangerous drivers and its being spent.
Where, how much and what are the results?
4)A well informed statement in relation to a man waving a red flag whenever i leave my driveway!!!! Yawn.
Hmm, how constructive
5)People will always winge when they think they are above the law and get caught.
6)Well done that youve been braking the speed limit for NEARLY 5 years and only had one accident.
I wonder how many have been in your rear view mirror?
Supposition, based on your argument there would be accidents occuring all over the place every time someone drove faster than the specified speed limit
7)Im interested to learn that you dont think that real numpties are speeders.
8)Your last statement is a little tooooo dramatic for me but you have probably won a few browny points in the reply with a few of the readers on here.
It is not about browny points.
To conclude.....
Im with Gemini on this one...sadly a few people on here need to get a broader outlook on life and remember, Speed limits are to be obeyed or take the punishment like a man!
To conclude - whats your point?
For the last time..my point is "IF YOU SPEED AND GET CAUGHT THEN DONT WHINGE OR BLAME THE POLICE".
Everyone is different (thank god), and i dont necessarily agree with all the laws but its nice to have an informed view on here from Madcop and others instead of mountains of "hearsay".
Im not trying to wind anyone up......just trying to redress the balance before i jump back on the fence.
Everyone is different (thank god), and i dont necessarily agree with all the laws but its nice to have an informed view on here from Madcop and others instead of mountains of "hearsay".
Im not trying to wind anyone up......just trying to redress the balance before i jump back on the fence.
If you continue to speed then invarably you will keep the local Trafpols entertained with spectacular crashes resulting in death or injury to either yourself, members of the public going about there everyday business and/or dry stone walls and hedges!
Oh really. Well personally my driving record is 24 years, > 460,000 miles and NO ACCIDENTS AT ALL. How's yours?
Speed doesn't kill, else Concorde would have been a really bad idea.
Crashes kill. Crashes increase in likelihood and severity with speed, but the point we (admittedly) bang on about is that plenty of our arbitrary, 10mph-increment speed limits are daft.
Given that all crashes are speed related, motor-vehicles will ALWAYS be involved in crashes. How slow is slow enough? cos at 30, 20, 10, 5mph, crashes will still happen. and there will still be campaigners for lower speed limits. We cannot eradicate accidents. i for one feel that the numbers of deaths on our roads are a sad but acceptable consequence of the considerable utility we all receive from the roads. Of course fewer deaths would be better, but there has to be a compromise between allowing speed and preventing accidents. cars+drivers=crashes
as a conscious, (fairly) rational driver, i can sense when to go left a bit, right a bit, when to change gear, and when to stop. Why am i not trusted with a little more nouse to make decisions about the speed bit?
Crashes kill. Crashes increase in likelihood and severity with speed, but the point we (admittedly) bang on about is that plenty of our arbitrary, 10mph-increment speed limits are daft.
Given that all crashes are speed related, motor-vehicles will ALWAYS be involved in crashes. How slow is slow enough? cos at 30, 20, 10, 5mph, crashes will still happen. and there will still be campaigners for lower speed limits. We cannot eradicate accidents. i for one feel that the numbers of deaths on our roads are a sad but acceptable consequence of the considerable utility we all receive from the roads. Of course fewer deaths would be better, but there has to be a compromise between allowing speed and preventing accidents. cars+drivers=crashes
as a conscious, (fairly) rational driver, i can sense when to go left a bit, right a bit, when to change gear, and when to stop. Why am i not trusted with a little more nouse to make decisions about the speed bit?
Just my 2p ...
I think 'speeding' is just an example for breaking one rule out of many; so let's stretch the whole topic to a more general behaviour with rules and law.
IMO rules and law are necessary for a functioning society, but adapting these rules to the weakest link (10%-ish) in our society causes grief by the other 90%. Double standards implemented by town councils and senseless chicanery with rules, especially to the motorist makes many doubt the correctness of these actions. Justifieable IMHO. It didn't took me long to behave more self-responsible in daily traffic, disobeyed the rules consciously and I never got fined or punished other than parking offences.
So I can really understand, when people complain about having to pay for driving faster than the limit on B-roads and motorways with low traffic and good weather conditions.
Once caught, I'd do so too.
I think 'speeding' is just an example for breaking one rule out of many; so let's stretch the whole topic to a more general behaviour with rules and law.
IMO rules and law are necessary for a functioning society, but adapting these rules to the weakest link (10%-ish) in our society causes grief by the other 90%. Double standards implemented by town councils and senseless chicanery with rules, especially to the motorist makes many doubt the correctness of these actions. Justifieable IMHO. It didn't took me long to behave more self-responsible in daily traffic, disobeyed the rules consciously and I never got fined or punished other than parking offences.
So I can really understand, when people complain about having to pay for driving faster than the limit on B-roads and motorways with low traffic and good weather conditions.
Once caught, I'd do so too.
tony,
i don't think our problem lies with the punishments so much as the 'crime' itself.
the nationals were introduced in the days of drum brakes, cross-plies, 6V lighting and drink-driving. They aren't relevant today on most roads of two or more lanes. Virtually every stretch of motorway i can think of can be tackled safely by any car on sale today at at least 80mph. Most cars, most stretches, 90mph. some cars, some stretches 100mph+
but what about the drivers, i hear you cry?
educate them, make testing harder in the first place, introduce tests every 5 years as difficult as the first, institute financial rewards for advanced driving and heavy penalties for abuse of the great new rules.
make driving a privilege, not a right, and restrict it to those willing and able to regularly prove their competance.
but you are right, we are just ineffectual whingers.
this is not the place to make our protests known, since we are preaching to 90% converts.
i don't think our problem lies with the punishments so much as the 'crime' itself.
the nationals were introduced in the days of drum brakes, cross-plies, 6V lighting and drink-driving. They aren't relevant today on most roads of two or more lanes. Virtually every stretch of motorway i can think of can be tackled safely by any car on sale today at at least 80mph. Most cars, most stretches, 90mph. some cars, some stretches 100mph+
but what about the drivers, i hear you cry?
educate them, make testing harder in the first place, introduce tests every 5 years as difficult as the first, institute financial rewards for advanced driving and heavy penalties for abuse of the great new rules.
make driving a privilege, not a right, and restrict it to those willing and able to regularly prove their competance.
but you are right, we are just ineffectual whingers.
this is not the place to make our protests known, since we are preaching to 90% converts.
tonyrec said: As ever.....you cant have a reasoned discussion on here without people taking it personal.
Everyone is an expert!
Best of luck Madcop, you have your hands full.
I'm sorry, I don't think you are trying to have a reasoned discussion - I think you are trying to provoke a response so you can reply from a plod point of view to the impassioned responses that will (have) result(ed)
I do not think in that respect you may compare yourself with madcop (whether you were or not)
I note you drive a Chimaera - I assume you drive rigidly adhering to the speed limit? It is not being used for it's purpose if so, & I wouldn't say it is first choice for a trackday car - so why drive it? I know it's a nice car but maybe it is because you do see fit to drive it in a responsible manner in the way in which it was intended to be used....
[personal opinion]
I really think you should stick to complementing PH'ers knowledge, helping us to understand legal/traffic issues, and stop trying to wind us up.
[/personal opinion]
Maybe you will gain some information on some other subject from PH - then you will see how this forum works - we all help each other. We know you are human as well.
btw I think we are all aware that the gimps who recklessly disregard the traffic laws should be treated with contempt and/or the law.
sorry about the rant
have a nice day.
tonyrec said:
You say "Do you see a crackdown on people that dont use the correct lanes at a roundabout? No!
I have news for you....yes there is but obviously not in your town/village.
What? Are you being serious?
In 5 years of driving I have seen 100's of speed traps, 100's of GATSOS, and many many scamera vans hidden in rediculous places.
I have yet to see anyone stopped for bad driving. Thats a direct critism of our system, that over the past 5 years the message given to us motorists is that speeding is the main reason for accidents.
When you pass a driving test you must be able to;
- control a car
- position the car correctly on the road
- judge speed and distance
- anticipate other road users
... the list goes on...........
So why the fcuk does the emphesis always end up on speed? I wish I could give every numpty 3 points everytime he cuts me up, bashes into my parked car, changes lanes without looking in their mirror, drives about with their fog lights on etc. They all cause accidents and break the Highway Code.
Mr tonyrec, next time I see a police car stopping a car for failing to be in the correct lane at a roundabout, rather than travelling at 65 down a NSL road I will eat humble pie.......
This is not a personal attack on your comment, I really do want you to tell me otherwise! Sorry about the rant.
>> Edited by robp on Thursday 12th June 01:47
OK, I'm normally pretty moderate when it comes to threads about speeding (as my views on it don't coincide with those of probably 90% of PHers and I have enough arguments with MadMike without starting them on another front ) and I have a lot of respect for most of the officers willing to put their heads over the parapet and post here, BUT:
18:14 sees a highly contentious (and possibly just plain wrong if a senior CPS solicitor -who will be along in the morning (BST) if she has time- is to be believed) thread, 19:28 brings a thread from the same person calculated to aggravate pretty much every other member.
sccguy gets banned for trolling...
) and I have a lot of respect for most of the officers willing to put their heads over the parapet and post here, BUT: 18:14 sees a highly contentious (and possibly just plain wrong if a senior CPS solicitor -who will be along in the morning (BST) if she has time- is to be believed) thread, 19:28 brings a thread from the same person calculated to aggravate pretty much every other member.
sccguy gets banned for trolling...
robp said:What? Are you being serious?
In 5 years of driving I have seen 100's of speed traps, 100's of GATSOS, and many many scamera vans hidden in rediculous places.
next time I see a police car stopping a car for failing to be in the correct lane at a roundabout, rather than travelling at 65 down a NSL road I will eat humble pie.......
i agree yet i am not from robp's area but i can say that the situation is exactly the same in essex.the police cant be bothered unless they are tucked up nice and warm in their mondey's and a car going at 0.0000001mph over the limit goes past,then they act like they have caught dillenger,in fact i am waiting for someone to be pulled over and ordered out at gunpoint by officers in an a.r.v for going into a 40 at 50mph from an n.s.l.
i know its still against the law to speed but so is rape,murder,burglary,child abuse,shoplifting,arson,supplying and recieving stolen goods,prostitution and armed robbery (to name but a few offences) yet resorses are being wasted by leaving officers with years of experience sitting on their arses collecting the number plates of people who wouldnt normally break the law and are being targetted as an 'easy touch'- essentially the police are put in the position of the mugger and the motorist is the 90 year-old woman with her pension and you know what im going to say next,dont you!
sorry if that upsets anyone but i think that h.m gvt is just taking the p*ss out of the police just for the sake of it,i mean fancy giving charge of the law and order in this country to david blunkitt,it really is a case of the blind being led by the blind.i suppose the gvt see it as if david cant see the crime figures,there is no crime. (i appologise to anyone who found this view offensive)
tonyrec said: For the last time..my point is "IF YOU SPEED AND GET CAUGHT THEN DONT WHINGE OR BLAME THE POLICE".
Everyone is different (thank god), and i dont necessarily agree with all the laws but its nice to have an informed view on here from Madcop and others instead of mountains of "hearsay".
Im not trying to wind anyone up......just trying to redress the balance before i jump back on the fence.
Tony, I agree with your point's above, I think many people on this forum understand that the safe speed for ANY road depends on many variables and it is bound to cause arguments if ANY of us make sweeping statements or try to set hard and fast rules, after all that’s what the government is doing with speed limits and that’s why many people are pi55ed off with them.
>> Edited by richard sails on Thursday 12th June 03:06
I appreciate your replies, most of which give us a valid point.
In answer to a few questions...im NOT comparing myself to Madcop and wouldnt want to..i was only trying to put another side to the point about speeding.
On another point, if you read many of my past threads you will know that im not a fan of Talivans (they dont always get the right people), and ive said many times.......everyone speeds (some more than others) but when you/we do get caught you can only blame yourselves...
The points that ive raised are in my experience only after serving for 20years, mostly on Traffic duties and to explain each one would take forever.
Im also not a statistic person, i believe that they can/are manipulated to suit whatever cause.
Hope that this clarifies the situation for the people who seem to have missed my point completely.
In answer to a few questions...im NOT comparing myself to Madcop and wouldnt want to..i was only trying to put another side to the point about speeding.
On another point, if you read many of my past threads you will know that im not a fan of Talivans (they dont always get the right people), and ive said many times.......everyone speeds (some more than others) but when you/we do get caught you can only blame yourselves...
The points that ive raised are in my experience only after serving for 20years, mostly on Traffic duties and to explain each one would take forever.
Im also not a statistic person, i believe that they can/are manipulated to suit whatever cause.
Hope that this clarifies the situation for the people who seem to have missed my point completely.
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