Speed hump on shared accessway...can they do it?!?
Discussion
Hi all,
The Mother-in-Law's house is part of a row with a shared accessway around the back to all of their drives & garages.
The chap at the end is a bit of a busybody and keeps moaning about 'people driving around the corner too fast' (It's a blind corner because of his wall, at a fairly-tight right-angle, and the M-i-L doesn't know of anyone who takes it quickly!).
Anyway, last week he went and put a concrete 'speed bump' across at the end of 'his' bit. Not seen it, but by all accounts it's very vicious (in terms of angle of the sides).
Now my questions are:-
1) As it's a shared accessway (and, if it's like ours, which I'm assuming it is, shared land rather than his property), can he actually do this?
2) If he can, is it subject to the usual regs on speedhumps, and if so, could anyone provide me with that URL again please (it was on SP&L maybe 6 months or so ago but I can't find it...)
3) If he's overstepped the mark by doing so, how would someone go about getting it removed?!? Sledgehammer
, or would it need to be a legal letter with a requirement to remove?!?
The Mother-in-Law's house is part of a row with a shared accessway around the back to all of their drives & garages.
The chap at the end is a bit of a busybody and keeps moaning about 'people driving around the corner too fast' (It's a blind corner because of his wall, at a fairly-tight right-angle, and the M-i-L doesn't know of anyone who takes it quickly!).
Anyway, last week he went and put a concrete 'speed bump' across at the end of 'his' bit. Not seen it, but by all accounts it's very vicious (in terms of angle of the sides).
Now my questions are:-
1) As it's a shared accessway (and, if it's like ours, which I'm assuming it is, shared land rather than his property), can he actually do this?
2) If he can, is it subject to the usual regs on speedhumps, and if so, could anyone provide me with that URL again please (it was on SP&L maybe 6 months or so ago but I can't find it...)
3) If he's overstepped the mark by doing so, how would someone go about getting it removed?!? Sledgehammer
, or would it need to be a legal letter with a requirement to remove?!?I think you'd have to read the deeds to see what it says. However if the speed hump does not conform to regulations then he would be liable to any damage to vehicles.
I would write to him to advise him that you consider him liable for any damage to your vehicles and that the hump does not conform to regulations etc.
I would write to him to advise him that you consider him liable for any damage to your vehicles and that the hump does not conform to regulations etc.
Deeds not a bad idea.
I need to get down there and measure it really, too.
Big problem this weekend is the wife's off to see her Mum for much of it and would like to (as you do) take the S2000*. But from reports by M-I-L and Sister-I-L, we're not sure the S won't ground-out as it crosses the hump (they're not keen drivers so may be overstating the case...but you don't want to take chances...), and if you come in from the other direction (it forms a very wide 'U') there's a very tight corner with, shall we say, a lot of paint at car-height on the inside wall!!!
JW...agreed...one of their previous neighbours drove F-i-L near to depression just out of spite - he was on shifts, she'd deliberately do stuff to set the dog (outside kennel) barking when F-i-L was sleeping and then bang on the walls to make him get up to shut the dog up! Yet they live in a nice village on the edge of the Cotswolds...
...go figure, eh?!?
Thanks once again...any further suggestions welcome...
I need to get down there and measure it really, too.
Big problem this weekend is the wife's off to see her Mum for much of it and would like to (as you do) take the S2000*. But from reports by M-I-L and Sister-I-L, we're not sure the S won't ground-out as it crosses the hump (they're not keen drivers so may be overstating the case...but you don't want to take chances...), and if you come in from the other direction (it forms a very wide 'U') there's a very tight corner with, shall we say, a lot of paint at car-height on the inside wall!!!
JW...agreed...one of their previous neighbours drove F-i-L near to depression just out of spite - he was on shifts, she'd deliberately do stuff to set the dog (outside kennel) barking when F-i-L was sleeping and then bang on the walls to make him get up to shut the dog up! Yet they live in a nice village on the edge of the Cotswolds...
...go figure, eh?!?
Thanks once again...any further suggestions welcome...
- Plus I'm off to O2 Arena sun afternoon/evening and would like to take wife's anonymous 306...
havoc said:
Hi all,
The Mother-in-Law's house is part of a row with a shared accessway around the back to all of their drives & garages.
The chap at the end is a bit of a busybody and keeps moaning about 'people driving around the corner too fast' (It's a blind corner because of his wall, at a fairly-tight right-angle, and the M-i-L doesn't know of anyone who takes it quickly!).
Anyway, last week he went and put a concrete 'speed bump' across at the end of 'his' bit. Not seen it, but by all accounts it's very vicious (in terms of angle of the sides).
Now my questions are:-
1) As it's a shared accessway (and, if it's like ours, which I'm assuming it is, shared land rather than his property), can he actually do this?
2) If he can, is it subject to the usual regs on speedhumps, and if so, could anyone provide me with that URL again please (it was on SP&L maybe 6 months or so ago but I can't find it...)
3) If he's overstepped the mark by doing so, how would someone go about getting it removed?!? Sledgehammer, or would it need to be a legal letter with a requirement to remove?!?
If it is a shared driveway or any other piece of land which is shared for that matter the whole point of the meaning of 'share' is that to make any changes to the property which is shared he would have to obtain the permission of the other owners!The Mother-in-Law's house is part of a row with a shared accessway around the back to all of their drives & garages.
The chap at the end is a bit of a busybody and keeps moaning about 'people driving around the corner too fast' (It's a blind corner because of his wall, at a fairly-tight right-angle, and the M-i-L doesn't know of anyone who takes it quickly!).
Anyway, last week he went and put a concrete 'speed bump' across at the end of 'his' bit. Not seen it, but by all accounts it's very vicious (in terms of angle of the sides).
Now my questions are:-
1) As it's a shared accessway (and, if it's like ours, which I'm assuming it is, shared land rather than his property), can he actually do this?
2) If he can, is it subject to the usual regs on speedhumps, and if so, could anyone provide me with that URL again please (it was on SP&L maybe 6 months or so ago but I can't find it...)
3) If he's overstepped the mark by doing so, how would someone go about getting it removed?!? Sledgehammer
, or would it need to be a legal letter with a requirement to remove?!?Indeed, the whole point of having land such as this which is shared is specifically so that one particular person cannot decide alone and without consultation with the others make their own changes - exactly what has happened!
He would indeed be liable for any damage caused to the property. Worse than this however, as joint owners of the driveway should a third party drive over the obstruction and damage their car, or even someone walking should trip over it, I do believe that each owner should be jointly liable.
The guy seems like an 'A'-hole anyway, and although I would be tempted to just walk out with a sledgehammer and remove it, maybe the 'legal' angle could be a way forward. That would be reminding him that the driveway is shared and that you were not consulted. Further to that each neighbour would be liable to damage to cars, and thus would he please remove it. For extra weight I would also privately speak to the other neighbours to gauge their support.
Indeed, if this 'weight' is not enough to get him to remove it, I would suggest a similarly ignorance of law and consideration that put it there would be to just remove it.
It would be interesting to know whether the access 'lane' which gives further access round to garages etc at the rear can be classed as a Highway?
( Highway: - way over which the public have a right to passand repass by foot, horse or vehicle, or with animals (Lang v Hindhaugh [1986].)
If so then the surface of a highway, whether a public right of way or a road, is owned by the Highway Authority rather than the owner of the land over which it passes.
Or, can it be classed as a road -
"any highway and any other road to which the public have access and includes bridges over which a road passes.?"
If either then there is a plethora of criminal law against private individuals placing/erecting artifacts on the surface without authority.
So as suggested, check the deeds to see what they say. One can always visit local Council and see what they class the 'lane' through as. Again if they have an interest then you have ammo.
Lawful dimensions of Speed Humps is at;
Http://www.tinyurl.com/5mxb2
Some advice from DoT to LA on the matter:
Http://www.tinyurl.com/29xef.
To me if the 'lane' is not a Highway or Public road then the matter of the 'hump' comes in the realms of civil law. If it is not to specifications of that the LA use for 'lawful' humps and is responsible for causing damage then there is an argument this fact can be used in a civil claim for damages.
Further, more information on legal standing may be obtained by a session with CAB Solicitor.
dvd
( Highway: - way over which the public have a right to passand repass by foot, horse or vehicle, or with animals (Lang v Hindhaugh [1986].)
If so then the surface of a highway, whether a public right of way or a road, is owned by the Highway Authority rather than the owner of the land over which it passes.
Or, can it be classed as a road -
"any highway and any other road to which the public have access and includes bridges over which a road passes.?"
If either then there is a plethora of criminal law against private individuals placing/erecting artifacts on the surface without authority.
So as suggested, check the deeds to see what they say. One can always visit local Council and see what they class the 'lane' through as. Again if they have an interest then you have ammo.
Lawful dimensions of Speed Humps is at;
Http://www.tinyurl.com/5mxb2
Some advice from DoT to LA on the matter:
Http://www.tinyurl.com/29xef.
To me if the 'lane' is not a Highway or Public road then the matter of the 'hump' comes in the realms of civil law. If it is not to specifications of that the LA use for 'lawful' humps and is responsible for causing damage then there is an argument this fact can be used in a civil claim for damages.
Further, more information on legal standing may be obtained by a session with CAB Solicitor.
dvd
Justin, DvD,
Once again you two have proved a goldmine of knowledge - thanks very much!
DvD especially...some interesting avenues there...have printed off to have a detailed study of tonight.
I MAY take a detour Sunday morning out that way (c.30 miles away, and I'm out all-day Sat), measure them up and have a quiet 'chat' with the neighbour concerned...probably take the printouts with me, suggest he rectify things BEFORE I notify either the neighbours about their joint liability (which would make him extremely unpopular) or the Council about his presumptuous (and indeed peremptory) actions...
...and if he does what I expect and blusters and bullies...then I suspect worse for him...
Edit: Para 18 on the DoT advice is quite telling - "Non conforming humps [on highways not maintainable at public expense] do not enjoy the protection from liability under highway law...".
Once again you two have proved a goldmine of knowledge - thanks very much!
DvD especially...some interesting avenues there...have printed off to have a detailed study of tonight.
I MAY take a detour Sunday morning out that way (c.30 miles away, and I'm out all-day Sat), measure them up and have a quiet 'chat' with the neighbour concerned...probably take the printouts with me, suggest he rectify things BEFORE I notify either the neighbours about their joint liability (which would make him extremely unpopular) or the Council about his presumptuous (and indeed peremptory) actions...
...and if he does what I expect and blusters and bullies...then I suspect worse for him...
Edit: Para 18 on the DoT advice is quite telling - "Non conforming humps [on highways not maintainable at public expense] do not enjoy the protection from liability under highway law...".
Edited by havoc on Thursday 13th September 16:36
Dwight VanDriver said:
It would be interesting to know whether the access 'lane' which gives further access round to garages etc at the rear can be classed as a Highway?
( Highway: - way over which the public have a right to passand repass by foot, horse or vehicle, or with animals (Lang v Hindhaugh [1986].)
If so then the surface of a highway, whether a public right of way or a road, is owned by the Highway Authority rather than the owner of the land over which it passes.
Hi DVD( Highway: - way over which the public have a right to passand repass by foot, horse or vehicle, or with animals (Lang v Hindhaugh [1986].)
If so then the surface of a highway, whether a public right of way or a road, is owned by the Highway Authority rather than the owner of the land over which it passes.
Does the local authority not have to formally and legally adopt the lane in order to 'own' or have jurisdiction over it ?
Dwight VanDriver said:
...or if it has been used unfetted/unrestricted continously by the public for 20 years or more then can be a Highway.
M-i-L has lived there for >30 years. Houses look substantially older than that...Many thanks for all your help*! Not sure I can visit the LA, but I can certainly give them a call. Will get M-i-L to check the deeds first though...
- PistonHeads: Detailed Advice Matters!
7db said:
As ever diplomacy better than legal action, but diplomacy easier if you are holding all the cards.
I think at least a few of the neighbours aren't best pleased with it...possibly more...don't know the row that well...
...and more could be co-opted when they're told that as it's shared land they're jointly (& severally?!?) liable for any damages caused by it!!!
Deffo check the deeds, available online from Land Registry for £3 I think. We had a similar issue over someone wanting to knock a wall down so the "road" along the back of our house joined in to the next block of houses (Bloke owned houses in each block), checked the deeds, called in a favour from a Solicitor friend to write them a letter, job done.
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