Friday 21st September 2007

PH Reminders

Rule changes coming into force over the next week and a bit.

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Make me flash - it'll cost you six points

First up, don’t forget that starting this Monday, the 24th September, anyone caught “failing to identify the driver,” when caught by a speed camera or suchlike, will automatically earn themselves double points.

Thanks to the provisions set out in the Road Safety Act 2006, the government has amended the law which now means that drivers who don’t admit to their indiscretion will receive six penalty points.

Paul Smith, founder of SafeSpeed.org.uk, said: "This change has absolutely nothing to do with road safety - it's just spiteful."

"Vehicle owners should be aware that they have no obligation to 'name the driver' if they do not know who the driver was at the time of the alleged offence, and cannot discover the identity of the driver using reasonable diligence. This is a statutory defence - sometimes known as the Hamilton defence - and is enshrined in statute 172 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988."

Secondly, although vehicles with incorrectly displayed registration plates already fail the MOT test, from 1^st October, the rules will be tightened further.

This is as a result of feedback from traffic enforcement cameras, Automatic Number Plate Recognition systems and road user charging technology. The new rules require the MOT tester to visually inspect the number plates, which must be present, secure, show the correct registration, colour and be the correct size, format and font.

[jayzee]

One more kick in the groin!

[noumenon]

This is madness. They're treating the symptoms and not the cause. Clearly the point here is that we need to get people to own up to minor speeding and not try to pervert the course of justice.

Wouldn't it be easier to have fines and no points for minor speeding and throw the book at the real high speed offenders? Works like that in most of europe, right?

[incubus]

Does that mean that if the owner (person on V5) does not identify the driver at the time of the offence, the owner will get 6 points even if it was not them who committed the offence? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty!

[Yee haa!]

easy. just name your best friend in Utah/Vietnam/Timbuktu

[RacingPete]

Yes it does, but who said that someone without a license can't be the owner of the car!!

[Fordo]

What if you and a friend are sharing the driving going somewhere, and you genuinly arent sure who was driving at the time of the offense?

[TonyHetherington]

I don't understand?

Am I being really thick here? It says 6 points if you don't name the driver. Then it says "you're under no obligation to name the driver".

Urmmm......?

[incubus]

RacingPete said:

Yes it does, but who said that someone without a license can't be the owner of the car!!

Ooohhh. I like that

[paulsm]

TonyHetherington said:

I don't understand?

Am I being really thick here? It says 6 points if you don't name the driver. Then it says "you're under no obligation to name the driver".

Urmmm......?

Seems the law contredicts it's self.

[paulsm]

incubus said:

RacingPete said:

Yes it does, but who said that someone without a license can't be the owner of the car!!

Ooohhh. I like that

Can my dog own a car?

[odyssey2200]

Agree with Paul Smith

all to do with safety

Just some little hitler getting even because some drivers have not had to donate to the cause in the past.

How can you double the punishment for a driver who you can not prove has committed a crime?

Total boocks

[Bing o]

Fordo said:

What if you and a friend are sharing the driving going somewhere, and you genuinly arent sure who was driving at the time of the offense?

If you can show due diligence in looking at bank and credit card statements (ie if one of you paid for petrol) phone call records, request CCTV from where you have been etc. then you aren't guilty of the offence.

[handpaper]

The solution is just a few clicks away...

There's even precedent for it (items 9+10)

[Steve-B]

So this could prove interesting....

we moved from Middlesex to NSW in Oz last year.
we still have a car in the UK, as it's cheaper to keep it for the road when we're back.
we no longer have UK licenses, but have NSW ones now.
it is impossible from 15,000 miles away to know who has driven our car.....although both sons have a key to it.

can't see them being able to:

a) make me take double points
b) prove who was driving as i'm not in an English jurisdiction
c) impund the car as it is kept in a garage
d) wife drives it when in the UK twice a year, or i do when back once a year
e) looks like they're screwed.....

TIME TO LEAVE THE UK.....?!?!?!?!!!

[Bing o]

Steve-B said:

So this could prove interesting....

we moved from Middlesex to NSW in Oz last year.
we still have a car in the UK, as it's cheaper to keep it for the road when we're back.
we no longer have UK licenses, but have NSW ones now.
it is impossible from 15,000 miles away to know who has driven our car.....although both sons have a key to it.

can't see them being able to:

a) make me take double points
b) prove who was driving as i'm not in an English jurisdiction
c) impund the car as it is kept in a garage
d) wife drives it when in the UK twice a year, or i do when back once a year
e) looks like they're screwed.....

TIME TO LEAVE THE UK.....?!?!?!?!!!

I think that there is a precedent that the keeper is the one who has access to the vehicle - hopefully a legal eagle will pop along shortly to clarify...

And yes, time to leave indeed.

Edited by Bing o on Friday 21st September 11:48

[anniesdad]

paulsm said:

TonyHetherington said:

I don't understand?

Am I being really thick here? It says 6 points if you don't name the driver. Then it says "you're under no obligation to name the driver".

Urmmm......?

Seems the law contredicts it's self.

Does the latter law not take precedent?

edited: Agreed that the law is an ass and I can't believe that mini-hitlers can make this one stick!

Edited by anniesdad on Friday 21st September 11:50

[Adrian W]

So there are some cars on the british roads that will never pass an MOT now! I'll start with the Ford GT

[TEKNOPUG]

RacingPete said:

Yes it does, but who said that someone without a license can't be the owner of the car!!

They'll still get the cash fine though.

What you need is either an "owner" who cannot possibly pay - my cat for example or someone that they can't possibly track down - "Mr Ali of Kabul, Afghanistan is the registered owner of the car...would you like his address?"

[anniesdad]

Adrian W said:

So there are some cars on the british roads that will never pass an MOT now! I'll start with the Ford GT

Have you fallen out with Phil?

[Mr.Cerbera]

Steve-B said:

So this could prove interesting....

we moved from Middlesex to NSW in Oz last year.
we still have a car in the UK, as it's cheaper to keep it for the road when we're back.
we no longer have UK licenses, but have NSW ones now.
it is impossible from 15,000 miles away to know who has driven our car.....although both sons have a key to it.

can't see them being able to:

a) make me take double points
b) prove who was driving as i'm not in an English jurisdiction
c) impund the car as it is kept in a garage
d) wife drives it when in the UK twice a year, or i do when back once a year
e) looks like they're screwed.....

TIME TO LEAVE THE UK.....?!?!?!?!!!

Each country has it's own 'interesting' drawbacks. I wa stopped for driving in a bus lane. I had no identification on me so they took the keys. I also had no money and had to walk home to get some ID, take a bus to the police station then walk back to the car......Fine and points came by post

Edited by Mr.Cerbera on Friday 21st September 12:00