NSL - 60 / 70

[MiniMac]

I'm under the impression that it is 60mph if there is a 'barrier between oncoming traffic'. Is that a verge? Small grassy area? ARMCO? I'm talking about at least 2 lanes each way roads here.

I am unsure, and due to a house move, I'm going from Liverpool Airport, over the Runcorn Bridge, down Expressway, then onto M56. MOst of which is NSL, with a divide between on coming traffic, and sodding millions of cameras.

I've gone past cameras at 60, but someone who was going marginally faster, got flashed.

Where is it 60, where is it 70. Urban clearway affect things?

[henrycrun]

HC only mentions the central reservation. No barrier details mentioned -
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Hig...

Speed Limits here -
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Hig...

[Mattt]

I've always assumed it to be a break in the tarmac surface.

[becca_]

I'd always assumed that a DC is when there is more than one lane in each direction, regardless of level of physical separation between directions - taking the name literally.

Edit to add: this is backed up by the only 60 limit signs I've ever noticed being on said dual carriageways, including one (A556 through Cheshire) which has a couple of white lines between directions in places, nothing more.

Edited by becca_ on Wednesday 3rd October 01:42

[Silent1]

It's a 70 when there's a physical barrier between the lanes, be it kurb, grass or shiny metal object

[vonhosen]

becca_ said:

I'd always assumed that a DC is when there is more than one lane in each direction, regardless of level of physical separation between directions - taking the name literally.

Edit to add: this is backed up by the only 60 limit signs I've ever noticed being on said dual carriageways, including one (A556 through Cheshire) which has a couple of white lines between directions in places, nothing more.

Edited by becca_ on Wednesday 3rd October 01:42

It doesn't matter how many lanes there are in each direction, it's how many carriageways (ie kerb line to kerb line). A dual carriageway must have a physical barrier/break between the carriageways. It can be an area of grass, a physical barrier such as armco etc.


Dual carriageway.



Single carriageway.



Single carriageway.

[supermono]

vonhosen said:

Single carriageway.

That looks like a nice straight high visibility stretch where the speed limit might be artificially low, meaning more people will tend to choose a natural speed above the limit.

Oh look -- a speed camera. That'll be right then.

SM

[WildCat]

becca_ said:

I'd always assumed that a DC is when there is more than one lane in each direction, regardless of level of physical separation between directions - taking the name literally.

Edit to add: this is backed up by the only 60 limit signs I've ever noticed being on said dual carriageways, including one (A556 through Cheshire) which has a couple of white lines between directions in places, nothing more.

Edited by becca_ on Wednesday 3rd October 01:42

Liebchen - you would fall foul of subsmarinated Steviebabes. That ist his fave game on A66 - catching out all those who not what dual carriageway really mean.

If there a tangible division .. like a barrier.. wall... hedge.. verge - ist a dual carriageway.

If the road divided by paint.. hatchings .. occasional pedestrian crossings.. it a SINGLE carriageway.

It per von's photos. The scams also set up to rake in cash as per the photo ..

You also need to be aware of tonnage of a van .. und towing any trailer as this also affect the lolly limit. Another thing our submarinated one use to meet his business plan target. It nothing to do with safety ...

[GPSHead]

becca_ said:

I'd always assumed that a DC is when there is more than one lane in each direction, regardless of level of physical separation between directions - taking the name literally.

As others have said, it's the number of carriageways that counts; the number of lanes is immaterial.

becca_ said:

Edit to add: this is backed up by the only 60 limit signs I've ever noticed being on said dual carriageways, including one (A556 through Cheshire) which has a couple of white lines between directions in places, nothing more.

They do that precisely because of the confusion (thinking that if they put an NSL sign, people might think it meant 70). Ironically it causes more confusion in many cases. Personally I think they should just put NSL signs along with non-standard signs explaining that it wasn't a DC and therefore the speed limit was 60.

[10 Pence Short]

If I remember rightly the Runcorn Expressway is 60 limit, as per the signposts. It isn't NSL.

[MiniMac]

Ah right, cheers for your help.

So, a division between traffic, and a NSL sign means I can do 70 through the cameras.

10p, parts of it are 60 yeah

[10 Pence Short]

MiniMac said:

So, a division between traffic, and a NSL sign means I can do 70 through the cameras.

Not in the parts which are signposted 60!! If I remember rightly, the section between Widness Bridge and the M56 is all 60mph.

[over_the_hill]

10 Pence Short said:

MiniMac said:

So, a division between traffic, and a NSL sign means I can do 70 through the cameras.

Not in the parts which are signposted 60!! If I remember rightly, the section between Widness Bridge and the M56 is all 60mph.

Only in a car. Goods vehicles (including Transits etc) are 60mph limit on DC.
There are also some single lane DCs (one lane in each direction with a physical divide) where the same rules apply i.e. 70mph for a car if NSL in force.

[Flat in Fifth]

WildCat said:

becca_ said:

I'd always assumed that a DC is when there is more than one lane in each direction, regardless of level of physical separation between directions - taking the name literally.

Edit to add: this is backed up by the only 60 limit signs I've ever noticed being on said dual carriageways, including one (A556 through Cheshire) which has a couple of white lines between directions in places, nothing more.

Liebchen - you would fall foul of subsmarinated Steviebabes. That ist his fave game on A66 - catching out all those who not what dual carriageway really mean.

If there a tangible division .. like a barrier.. wall... hedge.. verge - ist a dual carriageway.

If the road divided by paint.. hatchings .. occasional pedestrian crossings.. it a SINGLE carriageway.

It per von's photos. The scams also set up to rake in cash as per the photo ..

You also need to be aware of tonnage of a van .. und towing any trailer as this also affect the lolly limit. Another thing our submarinated one use to meet his business plan target. It nothing to do with safety ...

Steviebabes came on here trying to claim that even if there was a permananent construction forming the central reserve that without the blue dual cabbageway signs then it was still a single cabbageway.

He was rapidly disabused of his notions and sent on his errant way, and I do recall that the door did actually slap him on the arse on the way out.

Mind you the grass growing down the middle of a 3 ply little used rural road doesn't qualify it as a DC btw.

[becca_]

GPSHead said:

becca_ said:

I'd always assumed that a DC is when there is more than one lane in each direction, regardless of level of physical separation between directions - taking the name literally.

As others have said, it's the number of carriageways that counts; the number of lanes is immaterial.

becca_ said:

Edit to add: this is backed up by the only 60 limit signs I've ever noticed being on said dual carriageways, including one (A556 through Cheshire) which has a couple of white lines between directions in places, nothing more.

They do that precisely because of the confusion (thinking that if they put an NSL sign, people might think it meant 70). Ironically it causes more confusion in many cases. Personally I think they should just put NSL signs along with non-standard signs explaining that it wasn't a DC and therefore the speed limit was 60.

Gotcha. Cheers.

The crucial bit is knowing what a carriageway is!

[DucatiGary]

10 Pence Short said:

If I remember rightly the Runcorn Expressway is 60 limit, as per the signposts. It isn't NSL.

your right, and a few years ago (not sure if its the same now) the speed camera as you go towards the bridge, was set over 70 as, err, somone, err, i was told, err, about, err, went through it on his motorbike several times over 70mph and the thing did not flash, neither was he sent a "welcome to the points" club notification through the door.

the same chap told others and these also confirmed the apparent mishap in the camera setting for some years after.

although it did go off over 77mph we found, err, where told.

Edited by DucatiGary on Wednesday 3rd October 12:30

[NobleGuy]

More than one lane, 70. Single lane is 60.
I don't understand the difference between carriageways and lanes TBH.

Edited by NobleGuy on Wednesday 3rd October 13:36

[Cooperman]

NobleGuy said:

More than one lane, 70. Single lane is 60.
I don't understand the difference between carriageways and lanes TBH.

Edited by NobleGuy on Wednesday 3rd October 13:36

Shirley not. A carriageway can have one, two, three or more lanes.
A barrier or grass reservation between carriageways = 70 mph, irrespective of how many lanes there are in each direction.
No barrier at all = 60 mph, irrespective of how many lanes in each direction.
(Unless signed lower, before anyone points out the obvious).

[Steven Toy]

"Not in the parts which are signposted 60!! If I remember rightly, the section between Widness Bridge and the M56 is all 60mph."

The A556 is 50 mph from the M6 past the Mere Crossroads to about half a mile before it becomes dual carriageway. I'm sure 60 signs are used because otherwise the NSLA sign on the single-carriageway bit would have to be followed by 60 signs at the start of the dualled bit leading to the M56.

[Highway61]

Steven Toy said:

"Not in the parts which are signposted 60!! If I remember rightly, the section between Widness Bridge and the M56 is all 60mph."

The A556 is 50 mph from the M6 past the Mere Crossroads to about half a mile before it becomes dual carriageway. I'm sure 60 signs are used because otherwise the NSLA sign on the single-carriageway bit would have to be followed by 60 signs at the start of the dualled bit leading to the M56.

You will find that the vast majority of the road network has no speed limit signs on it at all, have a look next time y'all, it's the bit your car is on and is viewed out of the front window.

The road, minus speed limit signs, will indicate the speed limit unless it is not the default speed limit for that road type. i.e. in a buit up area with street lighting at 200 yd (183m) seperation (not Scotland, who cares?) it will be 30 mph but if the limit is otherwise, say 40 mph it will be signed with 40 mph speed limit signs and repeaters until that speed limt changes.
If you are on a motorway the speed limit is 70 mph (car & Motorcycle); but LOOK there are no signs; yet if the speed limit is 60 mph the speed limit will be indicated similarly by 60 mph speed limit signs and repeaters, and so on for other roads.

Quite why knowlegeable folk like those on here are having difficulty with this concept or evidently do not even know of it is astounding!

Have a look next time you are out folks, there are thousands upon thousands of miles of the road network with no speed limits signs, how the fek are you managing to drive within the law and what the fek have you been looking at while doing so?

Edited by Highway61 on Wednesday 3rd October 17:07