BBC: Campaign to cut rural road deaths
Discussion
Here we go again. Now we're told that 1/3 of road deaths happen on rural roads, and that 1/3 of them were caused by driving too fast for the conditions. So we have a clampdown.
1. It's hardly surprising that deaths occur on rural roads. They occur on all sorts of roads
2. The subtle switch from speeding to "too fast for the conditions" is clearly because of the recent DfT report that showed speeding to be a relatively minor causation factor. Most people won't notice the difference. Yet we still have a rent-a-quote minister spouting about speed limits when he's accepted that speeding isn't the main issue.
And how come Cornwall gets a special mention? Was that because of a quick ring-round to LAs in the hope of getting another deeply insightful quote? Seems to have failed then...
1. It's hardly surprising that deaths occur on rural roads. They occur on all sorts of roads
2. The subtle switch from speeding to "too fast for the conditions" is clearly because of the recent DfT report that showed speeding to be a relatively minor causation factor. Most people won't notice the difference. Yet we still have a rent-a-quote minister spouting about speed limits when he's accepted that speeding isn't the main issue.
And how come Cornwall gets a special mention? Was that because of a quick ring-round to LAs in the hope of getting another deeply insightful quote? Seems to have failed then...
BBC said:
Campaign to cut rural road deaths
Car users are three times more likely to die on a country road than an urban one, according to new figures.
Straight runs, less traffic and fewer pedestrians can make drivers think it is safe to speed, the government says.
Last year 1,256 people died on rural UK roads, with 325 deaths caused by driving too fast for the conditions.
The statistics show the South East had most rural road fatalities, with 188 deaths, followed by eastern England (165) and the East Midlands (158).
Rural road deaths 2006
North East 44
North West 97
Yorks/Humber 116
East Midlands 158
West Midlands 112
East 165
South East 188
London 8
South West 134
Launching a safety campaign targeting rural drivers, the Department for Transport said there was often only one car involved in rural accidents.
This made it likely that drivers had been tempted to push themselves or their car beyond their limits, the DfT said.
Road Safety Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said: "Driving on rural roads can be deceiving.
"It is important that motorists drive with as much care on a rural road as they would in a more built-up area.
"The 'national' 60mph speed limit is a maximum, not an expectation, and drivers must match their speed to the road characteristics and weather conditions they are experiencing."
One-fifth of the country's rural roads are in the south west. Cornwall's Road Safety Unit warned: "Conditions and characteristics can be unpredictable."
Car users are three times more likely to die on a country road than an urban one, according to new figures.
Straight runs, less traffic and fewer pedestrians can make drivers think it is safe to speed, the government says.
Last year 1,256 people died on rural UK roads, with 325 deaths caused by driving too fast for the conditions.
The statistics show the South East had most rural road fatalities, with 188 deaths, followed by eastern England (165) and the East Midlands (158).
Rural road deaths 2006
North East 44
North West 97
Yorks/Humber 116
East Midlands 158
West Midlands 112
East 165
South East 188
London 8
South West 134
Launching a safety campaign targeting rural drivers, the Department for Transport said there was often only one car involved in rural accidents.
This made it likely that drivers had been tempted to push themselves or their car beyond their limits, the DfT said.
Road Safety Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said: "Driving on rural roads can be deceiving.
"It is important that motorists drive with as much care on a rural road as they would in a more built-up area.
"The 'national' 60mph speed limit is a maximum, not an expectation, and drivers must match their speed to the road characteristics and weather conditions they are experiencing."
One-fifth of the country's rural roads are in the south west. Cornwall's Road Safety Unit warned: "Conditions and characteristics can be unpredictable."
Hmm...
Usual statistical stuff.... A plus B MUST equal C...
Obviously this is big news:
the Department for Transport said there was often only one car involved in rural accidents.
This made it likely that drivers had been tempted to push themselves or their car beyond their limits, the DfT said.
NO DfT... It means that when there are less cars on the road, less collisions between cars are likely to occur and thus a larger proportion will be single car accidents...
Of course, anything can be spun toward speeding if you spin it enough! In fact I believe it is even more true to say that these people drive beyond the limits of the conditions as they have no idea how to assess and control their speed in adverse conditions as they are constantly told a particular number is 'safe' and another particular number is 'unsafe'.
Usual statistical stuff.... A plus B MUST equal C...
Obviously this is big news:
the Department for Transport said there was often only one car involved in rural accidents.
This made it likely that drivers had been tempted to push themselves or their car beyond their limits, the DfT said.
NO DfT... It means that when there are less cars on the road, less collisions between cars are likely to occur and thus a larger proportion will be single car accidents...
Of course, anything can be spun toward speeding if you spin it enough! In fact I believe it is even more true to say that these people drive beyond the limits of the conditions as they have no idea how to assess and control their speed in adverse conditions as they are constantly told a particular number is 'safe' and another particular number is 'unsafe'.
I thought doing exactly that was what was causing them to all crash in the first place?Peter Ward said:
2. The subtle switch from speeding to "too fast for the conditions" is clearly because of the recent DfT report that showed speeding to be a relatively minor causation factor. Most people won't notice the difference. Yet we still have a rent-a-quote minister spouting about speed limits when he's accepted that speeding isn't the main issue.
Yes. I noticed the same last week. On the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 therewas some awful labour think tank berk on.
He stated that 33% of all accidents were due to going "too fast for the conditions".
He then used this figure (33%) to justify speeding fines and points for the OWNERS of cars caught going faster than the number on a stick, where the driver could not be identified.
Using the 33% figure to justify fines for something that is actually the cause of (3% ?) of accidents. And possibly not even the person that broke the law!!!!!!
The deceptive slimy sod.
When is the Tourist Season? Does that mean I get to shoot them? 
WE all know that lots of accidents are caused by going too fast for the conditions, let's face it, 30mph in thick snow and fog in a 30 limit is too fast. BUT what we need are people to educate the masses about this slight switch in tactics from HMG Tax Collection scheme (Speed Cameras).
Am I the only one who thinks they will try to get 40 mph limits out in country lanes, with the speed camera cash cow collection machine to assist.
WE all know that lots of accidents are caused by going too fast for the conditions, let's face it, 30mph in thick snow and fog in a 30 limit is too fast. BUT what we need are people to educate the masses about this slight switch in tactics from HMG Tax Collection scheme (Speed Cameras).
Am I the only one who thinks they will try to get 40 mph limits out in country lanes, with the speed camera cash cow collection machine to assist.
Edited by Jasandjules on Wednesday 3rd October 17:43
ocks to the other 931, Highway61 said:
Brother Mycroft said:
Deaths on rural roads are at their greatest during the tourist season and greater problem is then tiredness and overloading both of which may be partly under the aegis of 'too fast for conditions'
Are they really? What evidence do you have of that?Brother Mycroft said:
Highway61 said:
Brother Mycroft said:
Deaths on rural roads are at their greatest during the tourist season and greater problem is then tiredness and overloading both of which may be partly under the aegis of 'too fast for conditions'
Are they really? What evidence do you have of that?They are generally boy racers, thrill seeking bikers, drink drivers, elderly drivers, criminal drivers, tired commercial drivers. In other words drivers with a significantly increased risk. An influx of tourists don't contribute to the overall tally. Indeed, once they start to fill our rural roads, you can't go fast enough to kill anyone!
Tourists do die, but usually on the motorway, usually returning home from an airport after a long flight.
100% agreement with cp and iaha.
Almost the only "tourists" who die in our area are Lax Power merchants who come out of the nearest major city to prat about and then come unstuck.
On the other hand as a part of our tourist industry is based on attracting people from the nearest major city to spend time here, buy caravans and boats for their leisure time, and the Lax Power bods come out beause they used to come here with parents when they were kids, then I suppose one could say tourists have an influence, but in the overall scheme of things not a significant one.
Almost the only "tourists" who die in our area are Lax Power merchants who come out of the nearest major city to prat about and then come unstuck.
On the other hand as a part of our tourist industry is based on attracting people from the nearest major city to spend time here, buy caravans and boats for their leisure time, and the Lax Power bods come out beause they used to come here with parents when they were kids, then I suppose one could say tourists have an influence, but in the overall scheme of things not a significant one.
Twice as many cars--> twice as many incidents--> twice as many deaths.
It makes sense here...
Especially as we are told regularly that are roads are crowded and to keep the deaths down we must retain the 70 limit what some here are saying flies in the face of the current ACPO stance on raising the M'way speed limits.
It makes sense here...
Especially as we are told regularly that are roads are crowded and to keep the deaths down we must retain the 70 limit what some here are saying flies in the face of the current ACPO stance on raising the M'way speed limits.
Hang on, shouldn;t we be pleased that they are going to concentrate on driving too fast for the conditions? After all might get rid of some of the bad drivers around.
I don;t know about other rural areas but there is a great suspicion around here that many of the fatal singe vehicle accidents are caused by deer coming out suddently, driver swerves to avoid, and hits nearest tree. Deer ambles of scratching its antlers about the strange driving habits of drivers, and as it is gone theres no evidence of what caused the accident.
I don;t know about other rural areas but there is a great suspicion around here that many of the fatal singe vehicle accidents are caused by deer coming out suddently, driver swerves to avoid, and hits nearest tree. Deer ambles of scratching its antlers about the strange driving habits of drivers, and as it is gone theres no evidence of what caused the accident.
I gather from the in-laws based in this area that this story appear on page two of this paper.
I paste from the website.
One comment which I embolden back up Ian who know our rural roads here most professionally 
A part of the fire chief's comment ist a pandering sop to the pee cee brigade
)
. You need this teaching properly und nagged as constant though.. Pinging via usually hidden talivans for minor blips.. you spit into the gale force wind against you as regards safety led learning curves. 
Of course ist about cash registers und not safety led registering in minds of anyone. 
Real police like Ian make difference. Automated Speed traps? People still dying here... It all about COAST style driving to the conditions of the road und not driving dead to speed stated on a lolly.
I paste from the website.
One comment which I embolden back up Ian who know our rural roads here most professionally A part of the fire chief's comment ist a pandering sop to the pee cee brigade Bolton News as pasted from site said:
Fire chiefs in warning to country drivers
By Joanne Rowe
BOLTON motorists using the area's rural roads are being warned they are three times more likely to be killed than on the town's urban streets.
Fire chiefs have urged drivers to exercise caution on quiet routes, saying crews are regularly called out to cut injured motorists and passengers free after car crashes.
They spoke out as a new road safety awareness campaign targeting motorists who use the nation's country roads was launched by the Government.
Kev Barrow, watch manager at Bolton North fire station, said: "Boy racers are using the roads as race tracks. People shouldn't speed in general and should pay attention to the conditions."
Figures for 2006 show that nationally 325 car drivers or passengers were killed on country roads when speeding or driving too fast for the conditions.
And in Greater Manchester the problem of accidents on rural roads has become so bad, that dealing with them is now a major part of the work of the region's fire service.
"It is a startling fact that annually we now rescue more people who are trapped in cars than we do from fires," said Greater Manchester County Fire Officer Barry Dixon.
In July and August this year, there were five serious accidents on a two-mile stretch of Belmont Road on the moors near Bolton.
Most interseting since it reduced from NSL to 50 mph with mobile traps per my sister-in-law who work in Bolton. (She one feisty type.. she join them anti-toll tax "rebels" By Joanne Rowe
BOLTON motorists using the area's rural roads are being warned they are three times more likely to be killed than on the town's urban streets.
Fire chiefs have urged drivers to exercise caution on quiet routes, saying crews are regularly called out to cut injured motorists and passengers free after car crashes.
They spoke out as a new road safety awareness campaign targeting motorists who use the nation's country roads was launched by the Government.
Kev Barrow, watch manager at Bolton North fire station, said: "Boy racers are using the roads as race tracks. People shouldn't speed in general and should pay attention to the conditions."
Figures for 2006 show that nationally 325 car drivers or passengers were killed on country roads when speeding or driving too fast for the conditions.
And in Greater Manchester the problem of accidents on rural roads has become so bad, that dealing with them is now a major part of the work of the region's fire service.
"It is a startling fact that annually we now rescue more people who are trapped in cars than we do from fires," said Greater Manchester County Fire Officer Barry Dixon.
In July and August this year, there were five serious accidents on a two-mile stretch of Belmont Road on the moors near Bolton.
) Bolton News said:
Launching the national campaign yesterday, Road Safety Minister Jim Fitzpatrick said: "Driving on rural roads can be deceiving. It is important that motorists drive with as much care on a rural road as they would in a more built-up area.
"The national 60mph speed limit is a maximum, not an expectation, and drivers must match their speed to the road characteristics and weather conditions, as well as factoring in unpredictable hazards - like sharp bends, limited visibility or even animals - which can require a quick reaction."
10:46am today
It C O A S T to factor in the hazards. You at safest speed for conditions if you do this "The national 60mph speed limit is a maximum, not an expectation, and drivers must match their speed to the road characteristics and weather conditions, as well as factoring in unpredictable hazards - like sharp bends, limited visibility or even animals - which can require a quick reaction."
10:46am today
. You need this teaching properly und nagged as constant though.. Pinging via usually hidden talivans for minor blips.. you spit into the gale force wind against you as regards safety led learning curves. Of course ist about cash registers und not safety led registering in minds of anyone. Real police like Ian make difference. Automated Speed traps? People still dying here... It all about COAST style driving to the conditions of the road und not driving dead to speed stated on a lolly. iaha said:
Brother Mycroft said:
Highway61 said:
Brother Mycroft said:
Deaths on rural roads are at their greatest during the tourist season and greater problem is then tiredness and overloading both of which may be partly under the aegis of 'too fast for conditions'
Are they really? What evidence do you have of that?They are generally boy racers, thrill seeking bikers, drink drivers, elderly drivers, criminal drivers, tired commercial drivers. In other words drivers with a significantly increased risk. An influx of tourists don't contribute to the overall tally. Indeed, once they start to fill our rural roads, you can't go fast enough to kill anyone!
Tourists do die, but usually on the motorway, usually returning home from an airport after a long flight.
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