Police and the law.....
Discussion
OK, genuine question. Are the poilce 'exempt' from the law? Do they have special dipensation when on duty?
Couple of weeks ago, I recieved a ticket from a copper for making an illegal left turn. He didnt witness me making this manouvre, however, I got the ticket because I was parked in a street where only 'permit holders' are allowed to enter. These 'permit holders' are market traders and/or disabled badge holders. I hadnt realised my mistake, but it was indeed a 'fair cop'. But as I said, the police officer did not observe me making the 'illegal left turn'. The only way to enter this street, becauase of the one way system, is to make a left turn on to it, where it is admittedly signposted that you are not allowed to unless a permit holder(I missed this btw). There had been a recent change in the roads use and the signage had changed, but still I admit being in the wrong.
However, I did observe the police officer make the same illegal left turn in his own police car. He displayed neither market holder badge or disabled driver permit. Is he allowed to make the same 'error' as me? And more to the point, is he allowed to knowingly break the law (he knew full well it was illegal to turn left at the same junction after all).
So, as a neither a market trader or disabled badge holder, and without pretense of some 'emergency' situation, and without suspision that an offence had been or was been committed by someone, is he allowed to flaunt the law?
Another scenario. On the M4 this morning, usual traffic flow around 85mph. Police car comes through traffic behind me, driving agressivly, speeding. Everyone moves out of his way. no Blues and Twos. Tailgaiting agressivly less observant people until they move out of his way, proceeding up the motorway well in excess of 100mph. Is he allowed to do this? Is he exempt from the rules and laws? I would assume that if he was on a 'shout' his lights would have been going, but they werent. Is he allowed to drive like this?
Some comments from genuine serving police officers would be greatly appreciated.
Couple of weeks ago, I recieved a ticket from a copper for making an illegal left turn. He didnt witness me making this manouvre, however, I got the ticket because I was parked in a street where only 'permit holders' are allowed to enter. These 'permit holders' are market traders and/or disabled badge holders. I hadnt realised my mistake, but it was indeed a 'fair cop'. But as I said, the police officer did not observe me making the 'illegal left turn'. The only way to enter this street, becauase of the one way system, is to make a left turn on to it, where it is admittedly signposted that you are not allowed to unless a permit holder(I missed this btw). There had been a recent change in the roads use and the signage had changed, but still I admit being in the wrong.
However, I did observe the police officer make the same illegal left turn in his own police car. He displayed neither market holder badge or disabled driver permit. Is he allowed to make the same 'error' as me? And more to the point, is he allowed to knowingly break the law (he knew full well it was illegal to turn left at the same junction after all).
So, as a neither a market trader or disabled badge holder, and without pretense of some 'emergency' situation, and without suspision that an offence had been or was been committed by someone, is he allowed to flaunt the law?
Another scenario. On the M4 this morning, usual traffic flow around 85mph. Police car comes through traffic behind me, driving agressivly, speeding. Everyone moves out of his way. no Blues and Twos. Tailgaiting agressivly less observant people until they move out of his way, proceeding up the motorway well in excess of 100mph. Is he allowed to do this? Is he exempt from the rules and laws? I would assume that if he was on a 'shout' his lights would have been going, but they werent. Is he allowed to drive like this?
Some comments from genuine serving police officers would be greatly appreciated.
Can..... worms...... open......
The short answer is yet they can. Although Vonhosen will probably quite correctly redife the exact definition, in a nutshell if they feel that there is the need to do it they can.
He will no doubt say that there is all kinds of reasons where a police driver would NOT use the lights in that situation. However, my personal opinion is that if the emergency is such that it justifies a three figure speed AND for some reason driving up peoples arses in an obvious manner in order to get people to move out of the way using the lights would facilitate this in a lot more effective way!
The short answer is yet they can. Although Vonhosen will probably quite correctly redife the exact definition, in a nutshell if they feel that there is the need to do it they can.
He will no doubt say that there is all kinds of reasons where a police driver would NOT use the lights in that situation. However, my personal opinion is that if the emergency is such that it justifies a three figure speed AND for some reason driving up peoples arses in an obvious manner in order to get people to move out of the way using the lights would facilitate this in a lot more effective way!
OK, fair enough. But what about the other case, basically ignoring other rules without justification. For example, is a policeman allowed to driver the wrong way up a one way street just on the of chance that he may be able to book someone for a minor motoring offence further up the street, without any prior knowledge that such an offence is or has been committed?
Tony*T3 said:
OK, fair enough. But what about the other case, basically ignoring other rules without justification. For example, is a policeman allowed to driver the wrong way up a one way street just on the of chance that he may be able to book someone for a minor motoring offence further up the street, without any prior knowledge that such an offence is or has been committed?
As long as he can justify 'police business' then that is OK I am afraid, annoying though it may be in this situation.The police can use their speeding exemption for police purposes, which is a pretty broad spectrum of reasons, and it can and must for obvious reasons include driving without blues and twos.
Regarding other road signs, we are exempt in law keep left signs and red traffic lights.
However each and every road sign is supported by a TRO (traffic regulation order) most of which will stipulate that an emergency services vehicle will be able to contravene the sign in appropriate circumstances.
Regarding other road signs, we are exempt in law keep left signs and red traffic lights.
However each and every road sign is supported by a TRO (traffic regulation order) most of which will stipulate that an emergency services vehicle will be able to contravene the sign in appropriate circumstances.
bennyboysvuk said:
At the end of the day it seems to be one law for us and another law for them when it comes to speeding.
That is the problem, the conception or more usually, the misconception.Ten times out of ten, if someone thinks that of my speeding, if they were able to understand why I was speeding, they wouldn't think that way.
iaha said:
bennyboysvuk said:
At the end of the day it seems to be one law for us and another law for them when it comes to speeding.
That is the problem, the conception or more usually, the misconception.Ten times out of ten, if someone thinks that of my speeding, if they were able to understand why I was speeding, they wouldn't think that way.
Besides, if I could speed to make sure my Chinese doesn't go cold before I eat it, I would too!!!
(Joke.....)
Im under the same impression that they can patrol anywhere, contravene bus gates etc as a patrol function.
I don't think you can argue the issue of the FPN for obvious reasons.
I also see Police vehicles travelling above the legal limit at times but I have no idea if they are attending a burglary or something which requires a silent approach. Secondly they may wish to catch up with a vehicle and observe it's driving, so using blues/twos to move traffic out of the way wouldn't be the most covert option.
And finally, if you could get away with speeding, would you?...... I think so.....
I dont think there are too many perks as being a Bobby anymore so I think I can let them have that one
I don't think you can argue the issue of the FPN for obvious reasons.
I also see Police vehicles travelling above the legal limit at times but I have no idea if they are attending a burglary or something which requires a silent approach. Secondly they may wish to catch up with a vehicle and observe it's driving, so using blues/twos to move traffic out of the way wouldn't be the most covert option.
And finally, if you could get away with speeding, would you?...... I think so.....
I dont think there are too many perks as being a Bobby anymore so I think I can let them have that one
Edited by L14MNV on Thursday 4th October 16:12
FishFace said:
Tony*T3 said:
Another scenario. On the M4 this morning, usual traffic flow around 85mph. Police car comes through traffic behind me, driving agressivly, speeding. Everyone moves out of his way. no Blues and Twos. Tailgaiting agressivly less observant people until they move out of his way, proceeding up the motorway well in excess of 100mph. Is he allowed to do this? Is he exempt from the rules and laws? I would assume that if he was on a 'shout' his lights would have been going, but they werent. Is he allowed to drive like this?
Some comments from genuine serving police officers would be greatly appreciated.
The officer may have been training, which means they will use their exemption on national speed limits often without blues and twos. Some comments from genuine serving police officers would be greatly appreciated.
Why would he take the action you describe, unless it was for a legit reason...
... like his fish and chips getting cold.
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