£100 fines for cycling on the pavement
Discussion
London Evening Standard said:
£100 fines for Lycra louts who cycle on pavement
Katharine Barney, Evening Standard 16.10.07
Parking attendants could hand out £100 fines to cyclists who are caught riding on London's pavements.
More than 5,000 so-called Lycra louts have been given on-the-spot fines for riding on the capital's pavements in the past two years.
But critics say the £30 penalty is inadequate and lives are being put at risk because cyclists are ignoring the law.
Now a new law is being considered which would allow each London authority to set their own penalty levels for the offence. No limit has been put on the amount but insiders say many boroughs could choose to impose a £100 penalty,
The boroughs most affected are Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea.
Martin Low, director of transportation for Westminster City Council, said: "We have been pushing hard with other London authorities and TfL for the power to stop and issue on-the-spot fines for cyclists who ride on the pavement.
"This causes a lot of concern for many of our residents and can be frightening for elderly people and the partially sighted or hard of hearing, who cannot always hear or see the cyclists approaching."
The new legislation would also allow council employees such as parking attendants to take over the handing out of fines from police.
The proposals are part of the third London Local Authorities and Transport for London Bill, which will be presented to Parliament next month.
In the consultation papers the current £30 penalty is criticised as being too lenient.
It says: "It is considered that this is not a serious enough deterrent or punishment in the more serious cases, particularly where the footway is heavily used by pedestrians.
"It is proposed that powers be given to traffic authorities to set fixed penalties for the offence of cycling on the footway in areas where local authority employees have powers under a community safety accreditation scheme to hand out fixed penalty notices. Different levels could be set for different areas to reflect the seriousness of the offence."
Cyclists say they often have little option but to ride on the pavement to avoid dangerous road conditions and traffic jams.
They have called for more segregated cycle lanes to protect them from traffic.
A total of 372 cyclists were killed or seriously injured on London's roads last year, up nine per cent on the previous year and 41 above TfL's casualty reduction target. More than 2,500 "slight" injuries were also reported.
A spokesman for the London Cycling Campaign hit out at the plan, saying it was unfair to charge cyclists more in different boroughs.
He said: "To have different penalities for the same thing on two streets that are nextto each other would be inconsistent, confusing and would undermine the authority of the law."
TfL estimates that the number of people cycling in the capital has grown by six per cent year on year, with about 480,000 journeys on main roads each day.
Mayor Ken Livingstone claims that London is undergoing a "cycling renaissance", and he spent £5.6 million bringing the opening of the Tour de France to the capital this summer.
Katharine Barney, Evening Standard 16.10.07
Parking attendants could hand out £100 fines to cyclists who are caught riding on London's pavements.
More than 5,000 so-called Lycra louts have been given on-the-spot fines for riding on the capital's pavements in the past two years.
But critics say the £30 penalty is inadequate and lives are being put at risk because cyclists are ignoring the law.
Now a new law is being considered which would allow each London authority to set their own penalty levels for the offence. No limit has been put on the amount but insiders say many boroughs could choose to impose a £100 penalty,
The boroughs most affected are Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea.
Martin Low, director of transportation for Westminster City Council, said: "We have been pushing hard with other London authorities and TfL for the power to stop and issue on-the-spot fines for cyclists who ride on the pavement.
"This causes a lot of concern for many of our residents and can be frightening for elderly people and the partially sighted or hard of hearing, who cannot always hear or see the cyclists approaching."
The new legislation would also allow council employees such as parking attendants to take over the handing out of fines from police.
The proposals are part of the third London Local Authorities and Transport for London Bill, which will be presented to Parliament next month.
In the consultation papers the current £30 penalty is criticised as being too lenient.
It says: "It is considered that this is not a serious enough deterrent or punishment in the more serious cases, particularly where the footway is heavily used by pedestrians.
"It is proposed that powers be given to traffic authorities to set fixed penalties for the offence of cycling on the footway in areas where local authority employees have powers under a community safety accreditation scheme to hand out fixed penalty notices. Different levels could be set for different areas to reflect the seriousness of the offence."
Cyclists say they often have little option but to ride on the pavement to avoid dangerous road conditions and traffic jams.
They have called for more segregated cycle lanes to protect them from traffic.
A total of 372 cyclists were killed or seriously injured on London's roads last year, up nine per cent on the previous year and 41 above TfL's casualty reduction target. More than 2,500 "slight" injuries were also reported.
A spokesman for the London Cycling Campaign hit out at the plan, saying it was unfair to charge cyclists more in different boroughs.
He said: "To have different penalities for the same thing on two streets that are nextto each other would be inconsistent, confusing and would undermine the authority of the law."
TfL estimates that the number of people cycling in the capital has grown by six per cent year on year, with about 480,000 journeys on main roads each day.
Mayor Ken Livingstone claims that London is undergoing a "cycling renaissance", and he spent £5.6 million bringing the opening of the Tour de France to the capital this summer.
CTC und miltitant muesli munchers demand their "right to use the roads" und campaigned actively against segregated lanes. They wax lyrical about cycling abroad .. und the blue circle with the bike mean use of cycling facility "obligatoire" per the "Code de La Route" (French French/Swiss French editions which ist the one I have open at the moment 
) They get fined if they don't use these 
. These militants talk out of lycra clad a:cesnored:es most of the time
If they want the roads - fine.
But the pavements are for pedestrians who have the right to walk along in the crowds off to work without being menaced by these yobs.
I note that despite the congestion charge - London still leader in the league of "EU congested cities" - but slow moving traffic ist what they want anyway Remove the cars und have everyone on bicycles. You still get congestion though.. crowds of folk all the same 
on the roads und paths at the same time.
) They get fined if they don't use these . These militants talk out of lycra clad a:cesnored:es most of the timeIf they want the roads - fine.
But the pavements are for pedestrians who have the right to walk along in the crowds off to work without being menaced by these yobs.
I note that despite the congestion charge - London still leader in the league of "EU congested cities" - but slow moving traffic ist what they want anyway
Remove the cars und have everyone on bicycles. You still get congestion though.. crowds of folk all the same on the roads und paths at the same time. I wonder what proportion of cyclists will actually stop for a parking attendant?
If they decriminalise this, the police will no longer be interested in stopping cyclists.
This plan, whilst well intentioned in its aim to protect pedestrians, looks like it could make the situation worse...
If they decriminalise this, the police will no longer be interested in stopping cyclists.
This plan, whilst well intentioned in its aim to protect pedestrians, looks like it could make the situation worse...
Anything to bring cyclists into line suits me.
I was a long time racing cyclists and it sickens me everytime I see a so called cyclist shoot a red light.
It is totally irresponsible.
I do however give cyclists room myself and don't pass until I can give them plenty of space.
I do feel cyclists should refrain from the pavements , however
What about the instance of a child in winter?
Is he better on the pavement if his lights fail
Or better on the road with the traffic.
As allways discretion is needed when making decisions . .
but we know from experience where money is concerned safety goes out of the window and common sense dies.
I was a long time racing cyclists and it sickens me everytime I see a so called cyclist shoot a red light.
It is totally irresponsible.
I do however give cyclists room myself and don't pass until I can give them plenty of space.
I do feel cyclists should refrain from the pavements , however
What about the instance of a child in winter?
Is he better on the pavement if his lights fail
Or better on the road with the traffic.
As allways discretion is needed when making decisions . .
but we know from experience where money is concerned safety goes out of the window and common sense dies.
I will personally continue to cycle on the pavement where I feel it is dangerous to cycle on the road. I do so with courtesy to pedestrians, cycling slowly or getting off if too busy etc.
I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
(Fair weather cyclist alert...although I used to cycle in all weathers, before I PROGRESSED to being able to afford to run a car )
IF and only IF motorists begin to look before making turns / lane changes, then the roads can be a safe enough place to cycle, even in heavy traffic / jams. However, as a cyclist (see above comment) - it is impossible to tell when many cars are about to change lanes without looking, and it is simply not possible to assume every car is about to move sideways, which would be the only safe thing to do as a cyclist.
So, options...risk death (no thanks); use cycle lanes (
haaaaahaaaaa LOL yes, I'm sure whoever designed some of Nottingham's had a right giggle to themself!); occasionally use the pavement.
Personally, I hate using the pavement, and there's only a couple of places were I would do it (wide pavement, low speed etc)...but for the less confident, sharing a road with inconsiderate motorists (yes, cyclists are inconsiderate too!) and buses / lorries...it's a no-brainer.
Also - I hate the term "lycra lout" as whilst many cyclists are lycra clad, schoolkids / students in jeans / people in shirt and trousers rolling to work / old lady on her "shopper" are all just as dangerous
)IF and only IF motorists begin to look before making turns / lane changes, then the roads can be a safe enough place to cycle, even in heavy traffic / jams. However, as a cyclist (see above comment) - it is impossible to tell when many cars are about to change lanes without looking, and it is simply not possible to assume every car is about to move sideways, which would be the only safe thing to do as a cyclist.
So, options...risk death (no thanks); use cycle lanes (
haaaaahaaaaa LOL yes, I'm sure whoever designed some of Nottingham's had a right giggle to themself!); occasionally use the pavement.Personally, I hate using the pavement, and there's only a couple of places were I would do it (wide pavement, low speed etc)...but for the less confident, sharing a road with inconsiderate motorists (yes, cyclists are inconsiderate too!) and buses / lorries...it's a no-brainer.
Also - I hate the term "lycra lout" as whilst many cyclists are lycra clad, schoolkids / students in jeans / people in shirt and trousers rolling to work / old lady on her "shopper" are all just as dangerous
davidra said:
I will personally continue to cycle on the pavement where I feel it is dangerous to cycle on the road. I do so with courtesy to pedestrians, cycling slowly or getting off if too busy etc.
I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
And this is the conundrum. I cycle with my kids in areas where I shouldn't (legally), but it's far safer for me to do that, and I know that it will be done safely. While doing so I get absolutely no criticism from pedestrians. Occasionally I'll be buzzed by other two wheelers, and it's obvious that it's their manner of cycling which is causing the blunt rule aganst all cyclists still to be in existence in these areas.I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
Is it fair that enforcement in these circumstances should be universal, devoid of other considerations?
davidra said:
I will personally continue to cycle on the pavement where I feel it is dangerous to cycle on the road. I do so with courtesy to pedestrians, cycling slowly or getting off if too busy etc.
I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
I will only use the pavement, at very slow speeds, where i feel there is a risk to my safety. (might be a moot point as i live in London i guess, but some bits are far more nerve wracking than others; Hyde Park Corner is a fine example)
I wonder how this will work for an area near me which has been designated a joint pedestrian\cycle zone.
It's crazy, you get cyclists trying to zip up the road in the middle of lunchhour when the place is heaving with pedestrians. It winds me up no end but the coucil think it's fine.
Also around where I work there are loads of cycle lanes but I still get nearly taken out at least once a week by a cyclist on the pavement, and at least once a month by a cyclist deciding that a red traffic light does not apply to them as I'm crossing the road.
It's crazy, you get cyclists trying to zip up the road in the middle of lunchhour when the place is heaving with pedestrians. It winds me up no end but the coucil think it's fine.
Also around where I work there are loads of cycle lanes but I still get nearly taken out at least once a week by a cyclist on the pavement, and at least once a month by a cyclist deciding that a red traffic light does not apply to them as I'm crossing the road.
I cycle occaisonaly and do not feel at all safe doing so on the road. The vast majority of roads don't have cycle lanes and a small bump doesn't mean a small trip to the paint shop but potentially broken bones or worst and few days out of action atleast.
So I do cycle on the pavement sometimes, but don't do it at stupid speeds and keep an eye out as I have no desire to crash into anybody. Tbh if a parking warden tried to fine me I'd be off before they'd finished speaking.
If you are going to enforce it then you need Police to do so, last year during the London Bikeathon I met a couple of mates before the start at Maccies on the Kings Rd. They'd gone to get some brekkie whilst waiting and had chained their bikes up. They came outside and a PCSO started trying to fine them for locking their bikes to a fence (no signs prohibiting it! and on Sunday morning) So given they have no powers of restraint we hotfooted it away and mingled into a nearby crowd of people wearing identical tshirts!
So I do cycle on the pavement sometimes, but don't do it at stupid speeds and keep an eye out as I have no desire to crash into anybody. Tbh if a parking warden tried to fine me I'd be off before they'd finished speaking.
If you are going to enforce it then you need Police to do so, last year during the London Bikeathon I met a couple of mates before the start at Maccies on the Kings Rd. They'd gone to get some brekkie whilst waiting and had chained their bikes up. They came outside and a PCSO started trying to fine them for locking their bikes to a fence (no signs prohibiting it! and on Sunday morning) So given they have no powers of restraint we hotfooted it away and mingled into a nearby crowd of people wearing identical tshirts!
mark69sheer said:
Anything to bring cyclists into line suits me.
I was a long time racing cyclists and it sickens me everytime I see a so called cyclist shoot a red light.
It is totally irresponsible.
City of London Police Ward Constables and Cycle Squad have run a number of actions at key junctions in the City, targeting contravention of red traffic signals, careless riding and lighting offences. The impact is limited and transient though - StreakyI was a long time racing cyclists and it sickens me everytime I see a so called cyclist shoot a red light.
It is totally irresponsible.
Some tosser on a bike cycled straight at me on the promenade at Brighton a few weeks ago. He wasn't even using the designated cycle lane and rode straight towards me, obviously expecting me to get out of his way. I stood my ground and he swerved at the last minute.
So I went after him and beat him to death with a tyre pump while shouting, "Do you want some? Eh? Do you?!"
So I went after him and beat him to death with a tyre pump while shouting, "Do you want some? Eh? Do you?!"
streaky said:
mark69sheer said:
Anything to bring cyclists into line suits me.
I was a long time racing cyclists and it sickens me everytime I see a so called cyclist shoot a red light.
It is totally irresponsible.
City of London Police Ward Constables and Cycle Squad have run a number of actions at key junctions in the City, targeting contravention of red traffic signals, careless riding and lighting offences. The impact is limited and transient though - StreakyI was a long time racing cyclists and it sickens me everytime I see a so called cyclist shoot a red light.
It is totally irresponsible.
There's no jaywalking law at the moment, worth having one perhaps.
davidra said:
I will personally continue to cycle on the pavement where I feel it is dangerous to cycle on the road. I do so with courtesy to pedestrians, cycling slowly or getting off if too busy etc.
I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
Exactly the kind of attitude which pisses me off.I look at it like this: Would I rather pay a 100 quid fine, or be dead?
And since I have no numberplate I won't be stopping for any traffic warden either.
I'll cycle on the pavement. I am saving the planet.
You should ALL have compulsory third party insurance.
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