Former Trafpol / Safety Officer on speed cameras

[deeps]

Hi all!

I was chatting on another forum yesterday and met this chap who turned out to be a former Traffic Officer. It's nothing new I know, but just thought I'd share one of his posts here - not just his opinion but that of his colleagues too...

Former Trafpol said:

Re Speed Cameras - there's an adage that goes, 'Anything looks like a nail when you have a big enough hammer'.

Laser guns were a solution looking for a problem.

I was a Traffic Cop for 15 years and a Road Safety Officer for 3 years.

Speeders never caused me a problem when on patrol. However, drunk, careless, reckless, innattentive and stolen car drivers all used to cause mayhem. No cameras for those I'm afraid, plus it COSTS to bring them to book, whereas you get income and fabulous swelling coffers from technology policing.

Bitter and twisted? Me? Nah - just realistic. Speed does not kill. If it did then every F1 driver would be dead. That's the applied logic. Therefore it must be 'inappropriate' speed that kills.

So, make the speed limits appropriate on UK roads and RTAs would decrease.

Makes sense - so don't expect the tree-hugging, courdiroy wearing, bed-wetting, liberal, left, nannyist, Eco-warrior, swamp loving types to support it.

Unfortunately it is these types that have the ear of MPs they form pressure groups and they know how to lobby. We know how to moan but not how to cause activity that will stop governments in their tracks and re-think stupid and banal limits and pricing and fuel taxes.....................

Back to bed for a rest now.

I wonder how many current Trafpol feel the same way?

[vonhosen]

deeps said:

Hi all!

I was chatting on another forum yesterday and met this chap who turned out to be a former Traffic Officer. It's nothing new I know, but just thought I'd share one of his posts here - not just his opinion but that of his colleagues too...

Former Trafpol said:

Re Speed Cameras - there's an adage that goes, 'Anything looks like a nail when you have a big enough hammer'.

Laser guns were a solution looking for a problem.

I was a Traffic Cop for 15 years and a Road Safety Officer for 3 years.

Speeders never caused me a problem when on patrol. However, drunk, careless, reckless, innattentive and stolen car drivers all used to cause mayhem. No cameras for those I'm afraid, plus it COSTS to bring them to book, whereas you get income and fabulous swelling coffers from technology policing.

Bitter and twisted? Me? Nah - just realistic. Speed does not kill. If it did then every F1 driver would be dead. That's the applied logic. Therefore it must be 'inappropriate' speed that kills.

So, make the speed limits appropriate on UK roads and RTAs would decrease.

Makes sense - so don't expect the tree-hugging, courdiroy wearing, bed-wetting, liberal, left, nannyist, Eco-warrior, swamp loving types to support it.

Unfortunately it is these types that have the ear of MPs they form pressure groups and they know how to lobby. We know how to moan but not how to cause activity that will stop governments in their tracks and re-think stupid and banal limits and pricing and fuel taxes.....................

Back to bed for a rest now.

I wonder how many current Trafpol feel the same way?

I bet he still reported people for speeding who weren't causing a demonstrative danger in his 15 years as a trafpol.

[GreenV8S]

vonhosen said:

I bet he still reported people for speeding who weren't causing a demonstrative danger in his 15 years as a trafpol.

Perhaps he did, but it doesn't sound as if speed limit enforcement was very high up on his list of priorities. I don't think it should be, either.

[vonhosen]

GreenV8S said:

vonhosen said:

I bet he still reported people for speeding who weren't causing a demonstrative danger in his 15 years as a trafpol.

Perhaps he did, but it doesn't sound as if speed limit enforcement was very high up on his list of priorities. I don't think it should be, either.

I don't think it is high on any Police officers.

[Hooli]

sounds like the point of view we need in charge of traffic enforcement to me.

[SirSimon]

vonhosen said:

GreenV8S said:

vonhosen said:

I bet he still reported people for speeding who weren't causing a demonstrative danger in his 15 years as a trafpol.

Perhaps he did, but it doesn't sound as if speed limit enforcement was very high up on his list of priorities. I don't think it should be, either.

I don't think it is high on any Police officers.

Von do you hand out alot of speeding tickets, or do you feel its better to have a word, and make them aware.

[vonhosen]

SirSimon said:

vonhosen said:

GreenV8S said:

vonhosen said:

I bet he still reported people for speeding who weren't causing a demonstrative danger in his 15 years as a trafpol.

Perhaps he did, but it doesn't sound as if speed limit enforcement was very high up on his list of priorities. I don't think it should be, either.

I don't think it is high on any Police officers.

Von do you hand out alot of speeding tickets, or do you feel its better to have a word, and make them aware.

I don't do a lot of either, because doing so would be detrimental to my current role.
When it was a larger part of my role to deal with motoring offences, I didn't do a lot of either then. It still wasn't a priority then, but the action I would take was dependent on circumstances.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 21st October 16:49

[Mad Moggie2]

SirSimon said:

vonhosen said:

GreenV8S said:

vonhosen said:

I bet he still reported people for speeding who weren't causing a demonstrative danger in his 15 years as a trafpol.

Perhaps he did, but it doesn't sound as if speed limit enforcement was very high up on his list of priorities. I don't think it should be, either.

I don't think it is high on any Police officers.

Von do you hand out alot of speeding tickets, or do you feel its better to have a word, and make them aware.

Ahh.. von's the "law is the law is the law" type

Said before - don't want more police officers because I think they'd let folk off the hook for speeding. Want 'em to prioritise and focus on the downright dangerous.

Having said that ..doing so is also a risky business for our s


PC Sherlock (real name - and known to me as a nodding acquaintance) is still in a poorly condition. Thugs stole a car. Cumbria Trafpols applied a stinger. The kids - aged 14 and 16 crashed into him. They have been charged with a number of offences .. but not attempted murder as the press originally reported. I hope he gets better soon.

[SirSimon]

When you think about it. Police break the speed limit every day, answering calls etc. Do they die? No does speed kill....

[vonhosen]

SirSimon said:

When you think about it. Police break the speed limit every day, answering calls etc. Do they die? No does speed kill....

There is a greater risk from the differentials achieved in them doing so.
The risk of them doing so for emergency purposes is judged to be justifiable.
The increase in risk from you doing so for fun, is not.

[Mad Moggie2]

vonhosen said:

SirSimon said:

When you think about it. Police break the speed limit every day, answering calls etc. Do they die? No does speed kill....

There is a greater risk from the differentials achieved in them doing so.
The risk of them doing so for emergency purposes is judged to be justifiable.
The increase in risk from you doing so for fun, is not.

Ahh.. but they still drive - in normal mode - in the flow of traffic which is usually.. er .. bubbling [i]just]/i] above the speed limit and still apply the same Pavlovian braking thing when they see the scam

As witnessed by me when driving behind one in Kodak County. Took the kids to "do the lights"

[anonymous-user]

Speed can kill in the respect that if you hit a child at 30 there's an 80% chance..... you know the rest.

I do not think it is necessarily a priority for traffic officers to ticket everyone doing 31 in a 30 BUT when the speed is too far over then they will. A lot of traffic officers I know issue tickets for anything over 42 in a 30. Everything in between they use as an excuse to stop and carry out checks for other offences eg drink drive.

I do feel that consideration should be given to raising limits on motorways particularly at quiet times (early hours etc.). The Autobahns seem ok with the higher limits at all times, although I do not know the figures on accidents etc.

I think that if they made all thirty limits very strict to areas like schools and busy pedestrian areas then it would be more reasonable to enforce them strictly and drivers would be more likely to respect them.

[delboy735]

Yellabowley said:

Speed can kill in the respect that if you hit a child at 30 there's an 80% chance..... you know the rest.

But it isn't the speed that kills them. It's the impact of the fragile human body onto metal that does the damage. If the "Child" isn't on the road ( most of the time), they would not get hit. Regardless of limits,and speed, it's generally idiots that kill.

If a child were to fall and hits its head on concrete, there's a chance they could die......no speed needed there!

[anonymous-user]

delboy735 said:

If a child were to fall and hits its head on concrete, there's a chance they could die......no speed needed there!

Depends what speed the childs head was doing on impact

Of course you're right, speed itself doesn't kill, but children will always run out in front if cars and that's their fault (or parents or whoever else you want to blame). Their chance of survival is then a multitude of factors one of which being the speed at which the lump of metal hits them as well as the ability of the vehicle to stop before hitting them, which excess speed decreases.

[Brother Mycroft]

Mad Moggie2 said:

PC Sherlock (real name - and known to me as a nodding acquaintance) is still in a poorly condition. Thugs stole a car. Cumbria Trafpols applied a stinger. The kids - aged 14 and 16 crashed into him. They have been charged with a number of offences .. but not attempted murder as the press originally reported. I hope he gets better soon.

Yeah, he has a real case of incompetence against his force and the officer who gave the order to deploy the stinger.

He'll be rich when he is well again.

Ex Gratia payment.

[jambuster]

Deploying stingers is a dangerous business and in crumblia we dont have the luxury of a helicopter which makes things a hell of a lot safer for other forces. In this case the little barstewards deliberatley drove at him (not an effort to avoid the stinger), there was little he could do. In light of that action they WERE arrested for attempt murder at the scene but this has now been downgraded to more specific charges, although anyone who knows the full circumstances would certainly vindicate the original attempt murder arrest.

[deeps]

jambuster said:

Deploying stingers is a dangerous business and in crumblia we dont have the luxury of a helicopter which makes things a hell of a lot safer for other forces. In this case the little barstewards deliberatley drove at him (not an effort to avoid the stinger), there was little he could do. In light of that action they WERE arrested for attempt murder at the scene but this has now been downgraded to more specific charges, although anyone who knows the full circumstances would certainly vindicate the original attempt murder arrest.

How can it be downgraded, who is responsible for that? Surely it rests with the eye witnesses and a jurys decision?

[R_U_LOCAL]

deeps said:

jambuster said:

Deploying stingers is a dangerous business and in crumblia we dont have the luxury of a helicopter which makes things a hell of a lot safer for other forces. In this case the little barstewards deliberatley drove at him (not an effort to avoid the stinger), there was little he could do. In light of that action they WERE arrested for attempt murder at the scene but this has now been downgraded to more specific charges, although anyone who knows the full circumstances would certainly vindicate the original attempt murder arrest.

How can it be downgraded, who is responsible for that? Surely it rests with the eye witnesses and a jurys decision?

The CPS make almost all charging decisions these days. This decision will certainly have been made by the CPS. The investigating officers hold a meeting with a CPS Solicitor in which all the evidence is assessed, and then a decision at to the most appropriate charge is made.

It is extremely common for a detained person to be charged with a different, or less serious offence than that for which they were arrested. Remember that an officer makes a decision to arrest based on (sometimes very) limited information. Once more information and evidence has been gathered, a more informed decision can be made as to the most appropriate charge.

[Brother Mycroft]

jambuster said:

Deploying stingers is a dangerous business and in crumblia we dont have the luxury of a helicopter which makes things a hell of a lot safer for other forces. In this case the little barstewards deliberatley drove at him (not an effort to avoid the stinger), there was little he could do. In light of that action they WERE arrested for attempt murder at the scene but this has now been downgraded to more specific charges, although anyone who knows the full circumstances would certainly vindicate the original attempt murder arrest.

The problem is that if the CPS went for "Attempted Murder" a good brief would have a field day with the cops who decided to put a stinger down contrary to the guidelines [manufacturer and ACPO] and the situation would result in cops on the stand for the same charge!

So, the CPS pursue in the lesser charge so that if this backfires [and it will!] the coips don't face that charge but an equally lesser one.

This is not a case of the CPS 'backing down' this is the CPS protecting the Police force from another appalling faux pas.

If I were the kids brief I would relish the chance to 'turn this around' the notoriety in do that would assure my fees jumped threefold overnight.

[mark69sheer]

I think in the case of a stinger being deployed I can't have any sympathy with the drivers who went over them.

If you get to the stage a stinger is deployed than you have allready gone past the stage of refusing to stop when requested.

My beef about speeding is that if Joe public is to be penalised for petty breaches then the police had better drive whiter than white if they want to keep piblic opinion on there side but too often we see superintendents getting off due to technicalitis or 89,500 officers trigger gatso's without recourse.

I don't have any sympathy with anyone deliberately trying to outrun the law.
In fact I would see a mandatory 2 year sentence for anyone who fails to stop.