NIP - Non delivery
Discussion
OK, we could all claim that the NIP did not arrive. In my case lets say that I did not receive it! And this is for a speeding incident in November 2002 (in excess of 30 - yes I was doing 39 according to the GATSO report, I don't dispute that)
I have now had a summons arrive this morning for not disclosing the driver.
Questions.
Can I claim that the NIP letter was not delivered? The law seems to be that they only need to post first class to fulfil their obligation. I often have mail delivered to another similar address - perhaps it was not forwarded on guv!! Would this be circumstances that they would consider?
I now seem be given the opportunity to claim points for non-disclosure of driver and an £80 fine for costs rather than the speeding fine. What do insurance companies think of this offence rather than a speeding fine?
PS. This post was attempted before but seems to have been lost in the ether, so sorry if it appears twice.
I have now had a summons arrive this morning for not disclosing the driver.
Questions.
Can I claim that the NIP letter was not delivered? The law seems to be that they only need to post first class to fulfil their obligation. I often have mail delivered to another similar address - perhaps it was not forwarded on guv!! Would this be circumstances that they would consider?
I now seem be given the opportunity to claim points for non-disclosure of driver and an £80 fine for costs rather than the speeding fine. What do insurance companies think of this offence rather than a speeding fine?
PS. This post was attempted before but seems to have been lost in the ether, so sorry if it appears twice.
If it's anything like a Summons the rule is :
"If they think they've posted it, you MUST have received it"
** Ironic huh ?!
**
Cleric : Well it's not on my desk anymore so I must have posted it..
Cleaner : They don't normally throw these in the bin - obviously a duff one ((empties bin)).
As for the insurance company - As far as I'm aware it's NOT an endorsable offence - So no requirement to even tell them.
"If they think they've posted it, you MUST have received it"
** Ironic huh ?!
** Cleric : Well it's not on my desk anymore so I must have posted it..
Cleaner : They don't normally throw these in the bin - obviously a duff one ((empties bin)).
As for the insurance company - As far as I'm aware it's NOT an endorsable offence - So no requirement to even tell them.
They only have to prove posting.
That is easy to do as they will have an endorsd copy of the original by the person that served it. If necessary they will call that person to court to give evidence of "I served it in the manner I endorsed on the rear of the copy".
Failing to name a driver is not likely to get you into serious bother with an insurance company (or even any for that matter).
That is easy to do as they will have an endorsd copy of the original by the person that served it. If necessary they will call that person to court to give evidence of "I served it in the manner I endorsed on the rear of the copy".
Failing to name a driver is not likely to get you into serious bother with an insurance company (or even any for that matter).
Insurance companies WILL care unfortunately, as the point system was devised between some deviant in the Insurance business, and the law making process.
It goes something like this;-
3pts = 0 to 25% loading
6pts = 0 to 50% loading
9pts = 25 to 75% loading
10pts = hard to insure
11pts = don't want to know you
ANY points are bad regardless of what they are for, hence it is always good to fight your ticket, even if you are as guilty as the man behind the grassy knoll.
Remember - it's not about safety, it's abou tmoney, and you won't go far wrong.
C
It goes something like this;-
3pts = 0 to 25% loading
6pts = 0 to 50% loading
9pts = 25 to 75% loading
10pts = hard to insure
11pts = don't want to know you
ANY points are bad regardless of what they are for, hence it is always good to fight your ticket, even if you are as guilty as the man behind the grassy knoll.
Remember - it's not about safety, it's abou tmoney, and you won't go far wrong.
C
pashby said:
OK, we could all claim that the NIP did not arrive. In my case lets say that I did not receive it! And this is for a speeding incident in November 2002 (in excess of 30 - yes I was doing 39 according to the GATSO report, I don't dispute that)
What would be stopping you going to court and claiming 'how the hell am I supposed to remember who was driving at this specific time, 7 months ago!!'
(assuming there is no photo evidence)
Purgery I know, but as far as I can tell, almost impossible to prove.
juts said:
OK, we could all claim that the NIP did not arrive. In my case lets say that I did not receive it! And this is for a speeding incident in November 2002 (in excess of 30 - yes I was doing 39 according to the GATSO report, I don't dispute that)
What would be stopping you going to court and claiming 'how the hell am I supposed to remember who was driving at this specific time, 7 months ago!!'
(assuming there is no photo evidence)
Purgery I know, but as far as I can tell, almost impossible to prove.
Doesn't help you though because you're still failing to ID the driver, which is an offence...
I know I am being naive, but the law here really needs testing. Proof of posting is not proof of delivery. The Royal Mail admits millions of letters a year go astray. Surely the law states you have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Under the cuurent system there is no way they can prove the NIP was delivered or recieved, so how can you be convicted.
gro said:
I know I am being naive, but the law here really needs testing. Proof of posting is not proof of delivery. The Royal Mail admits millions of letters a year go astray. Surely the law states you have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Under the cuurent system there is no way they can prove the NIP was delivered or recieved, so how can you be convicted.
I agree that it should be tested (it probably has by now) but i'm not flush with the readies to fight the case. I would love to though
but legal costs could be expensive. So it seems like 3 points.... unless someone out there knows better..
pashby said:
I know they only have to prove posting - however, I have proof that a formal complaint was lodged with the Royal Mail (by a neighbour) at about the same time regarding non receipt of mail.
Is this grounds for fighting????? Any ideas madcop (or anyone) legal or otherwise?!?!?!
You could try it, but I don't think that it would work because the case law is in connection with the sending of the item and not its receipt.
If you have lots of cash that you do not know what to do with, then you could employ a barrister to look at the implications of challenging the rule laid down by court and implement new case law.
WARNING * very very expensive
Especially if you lose!madcop said:
pashby said:
I know they only have to prove posting - however, I have proof that a formal complaint was lodged with the Royal Mail (by a neighbour) at about the same time regarding non receipt of mail.
Is this grounds for fighting????? Any ideas madcop (or anyone) legal or otherwise?!?!?!
You could try it, but I don't think that it would work because the case law is in connection with the sending of the item and not its receipt.
If you have lots of cash that you do not know what to do with, then you could employ a barrister to look at the implications of challenging the rule laid down by court and implement new case law.
WARNING * very very expensive
Case has been discontinued without going to court!!!! Result
>> Edited by pashby on Thursday 14th August 14:43
madcop said:
I know they only have to prove posting - however, I have proof that a formal complaint was lodged with the Royal Mail (by a neighbour) at about the same time regarding non receipt of mail.
Is this grounds for fighting????? Any ideas madcop (or anyone) legal or otherwise?!?!?!
how ever
many fouces now sent nip by recorded mail.
I my self have deliberatly not sign and acsepted it.
knowing full well what it was.
they gave up after the 3 try.
I would be intresting to see a test case on them terms.
You could try it, but I don't think that it would work because the case law is in connection with the sending of the item and not its receipt.
If you have lots of cash that you do not know what to do with, then you could employ a barrister to look at the implications of challenging the rule laid down by court and implement new case law.
WARNING * very very expensive
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