Recieved NIP, but I was sat in very slow traffic..
Discussion
I have just received a NIP for London road, Sunningdale last Monday morning for 44mph in 30mph. I was indeed on this road on Monday morning around 8:30 but the traffic was so bad that I doubt I went over 15mph along the whole length.
The NIP says they will not provide photographic evidence unless it goes to court.
I really believe I was not speeding, I never speed in a 30 since I undertook the drivetrain course, plus the traffic was so heavy that a mistake has been mad. How can I prove I was not speeding?
If I go to court and loose, then the fine is huge along with 5 pp so what should I do.
Many thanks in advance
Justin
The NIP says they will not provide photographic evidence unless it goes to court.
I really believe I was not speeding, I never speed in a 30 since I undertook the drivetrain course, plus the traffic was so heavy that a mistake has been mad. How can I prove I was not speeding?
If I go to court and loose, then the fine is huge along with 5 pp so what should I do.
Many thanks in advance
Justin
Fill in and return the NIP but DON'T sign it...
They will respond with a offer of points which you should decline...
The case will then go to court, and they will have to supply any evidence... photo's etc...
However, because you didn't sign the NIP then they will probebly throw the case out... unless the photo is very clear... and you can be identified as the driver.
There are loads of threads here that give advice on how to avoid points and a fine.
They will respond with a offer of points which you should decline...
The case will then go to court, and they will have to supply any evidence... photo's etc...
However, because you didn't sign the NIP then they will probebly throw the case out... unless the photo is very clear... and you can be identified as the driver.
There are loads of threads here that give advice on how to avoid points and a fine.
Hi
I have spoke to the scamera people and in this case they have agreed to send me the photos, so I can at least make a decision on whether I was speeding or not. They have said it was not a fixed gatso.
As I mentioned the traffic was really bad along London road last Monday. I was kicking myself for turning of the M3 and joining it. It added and hour to my journey
I am 90% sure I was not speeding and it is an error, but maybe there was a very short section that was clear and I had mistaken it for 60mph. I never knowingly speed in a 30, so this can be the only explanation if I was indeed speeding.
The photos should at least show how heavy the traffic was and I will ask for the exact location of the mobile unit. Do these mobile cameras make mistakes, has anybody proved it was at fault?
They said I should receive the photos before the 28 day deadline in send the NIP back.
Cheers
JustinP
I have spoke to the scamera people and in this case they have agreed to send me the photos, so I can at least make a decision on whether I was speeding or not. They have said it was not a fixed gatso.
As I mentioned the traffic was really bad along London road last Monday. I was kicking myself for turning of the M3 and joining it. It added and hour to my journey
I am 90% sure I was not speeding and it is an error, but maybe there was a very short section that was clear and I had mistaken it for 60mph. I never knowingly speed in a 30, so this can be the only explanation if I was indeed speeding.
The photos should at least show how heavy the traffic was and I will ask for the exact location of the mobile unit. Do these mobile cameras make mistakes, has anybody proved it was at fault?
They said I should receive the photos before the 28 day deadline in send the NIP back.
Cheers
JustinP
There is a stretch (imagine going out of London) just before the M3 proper starts where the road is 3 or 4 lanes wide and opposing traffic is divided by a barrier. A slip road bears left as the main road continues towards and up a bridge. This is either a 30 or a 40 (I've driven it that many times yet I still cannot be sure unless I see a sign there!) but is easily mistaken for dual carriageway. I was flashed there once once but got lucky *touches wood*. If the traffic was clear, even if it isn't it is very easy to speed here. (Sorry if you don't know this area but it's just before you get to the water treatment works on your way out of A316/M3 London).
edc said:
There is a stretch (imagine going out of London) just before the M3 proper starts where the road is 3 or 4 lanes wide and opposing traffic is divided by a barrier. A slip road bears left as the main road continues towards and up a bridge. This is either a 30 or a 40 (
I'm pretty sure it's a 50. The camera is just after the petrol station going out of town, it seems to spend its time equally turned both ways.
As you say - the photo will tell everything.
On that particular stretch of road it is possible to get above 30 mph at that time of the morning.
Just as you approach the level crossing (immediately after Waitrose and the train station) the A30 splits into an informal dual carriageway for about 100+ yards.
In the left-hand lane it would not really be possible to go above 30 as there would be traffic turning left towards Sunninghill - plus traffic coming out from that junction.
However, on the 'outside' lane you can easily speed above 30+ as there's usually little traffic until you get up to the traffic lights (and assuming there's no car sat in the middle of the road turning right.
The only exception at this time would be if you were stuck at the barriers with a train, and you were first or 2nd in the queue. Once the barriers go up you'd easily get up to speed. However, there would usually be a few cars turning into your path so you would have to slow down (just before the camera).
Unless there were no cars at that point.
On that particular stretch of road it is possible to get above 30 mph at that time of the morning.
Just as you approach the level crossing (immediately after Waitrose and the train station) the A30 splits into an informal dual carriageway for about 100+ yards.
In the left-hand lane it would not really be possible to go above 30 as there would be traffic turning left towards Sunninghill - plus traffic coming out from that junction.
However, on the 'outside' lane you can easily speed above 30+ as there's usually little traffic until you get up to the traffic lights (and assuming there's no car sat in the middle of the road turning right.
The only exception at this time would be if you were stuck at the barriers with a train, and you were first or 2nd in the queue. Once the barriers go up you'd easily get up to speed. However, there would usually be a few cars turning into your path so you would have to slow down (just before the camera).
Unless there were no cars at that point.
whoozit said:
There is a stretch (imagine going out of London) just before the M3 proper starts where the road is 3 or 4 lanes wide and opposing traffic is divided by a barrier. A slip road bears left as the main road continues towards and up a bridge. This is either a 30 or a 40 (
I'm pretty sure it's a 50. The camera is just after the petrol station going out of town, it seems to spend its time equally turned both ways.
Maybe I got a freak flash. It was many months ago but I was only going about 40 and certainly not 50 or above.
Mr E said:
Is it possible the system picked up the car in front, and then you and assumed it was the same car.
Shouldn't happen, but I don't know how these things make the distinction.
No it is not possible to pick up on another vehicle. The laser is very accurate and it requires the operator to target your number plate before he presses the trigger on the laser gun. If the reading is not satisfactory or it has been jammed, the laser will tell the operator immediately of an error and he has to re activate the device by letting the trigger go and depressing it until the device receives the correct reading. This can be seen by the operator in the digital readout through the view finder and is backed up by an audible signal telling the operator which are correct readings and usable or errors and are not. This happens in tenths of a second.
Madcop, are you descibing the handheld devices that must be aimed at a car, or the unmanned mobile devices that sit beside the road?
There was no police man with a hair dryier, but it was a mobile unit. Does a police man with a laser gun have to stop you there and then?
I drove along the same road on my way home this afternoon to check if I could have missed a 30mph limit, thankfully i had not, the only 30 is by the railway crossing. I know i was not speeding here. i never knowingly speed in any 30 and i new this was 30. I also run a gps safety camera warning system in my car which alerted me of the 2 cameras on that stretch. I was in very heavy traffic, i remember looking at the new bently in the garage next to the bmw dealership just before the crossing, thats how slow i was going, i.e. stop start less than 10mph.
Since driving down the road this afternoon i am now 100% sure it is an error. I have requested the photos and the exact location of the camera, so i look forward to posting them here.
Cheers
JustinP
>> Edited by JustinP on Friday 27th June 21:07
There was no police man with a hair dryier, but it was a mobile unit. Does a police man with a laser gun have to stop you there and then?
I drove along the same road on my way home this afternoon to check if I could have missed a 30mph limit, thankfully i had not, the only 30 is by the railway crossing. I know i was not speeding here. i never knowingly speed in any 30 and i new this was 30. I also run a gps safety camera warning system in my car which alerted me of the 2 cameras on that stretch. I was in very heavy traffic, i remember looking at the new bently in the garage next to the bmw dealership just before the crossing, thats how slow i was going, i.e. stop start less than 10mph.
Since driving down the road this afternoon i am now 100% sure it is an error. I have requested the photos and the exact location of the camera, so i look forward to posting them here.
Cheers
JustinP
>> Edited by JustinP on Friday 27th June 21:07
JustinP said:
Madcop, are you descibing the handheld devices that must be aimed at a car, or the unmanned mobile devices that sit beside the road?
There was no police man with a hair dryier, but it was a mobile unit. Does a police man with a laser gun have to stop you there and then?
On another thread Madcop recently posted that he had stopped at a mobile unit to investigate what they were how they worked etc, and he posted an informative post about it. You might want to search for it. In fact if this works its at www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=10&h=0&t=42445 .
From that post my understanding s that a mobile unit consists of a camera attached to a laser gun, and the operator has to manually take each speeding vehicle. Rather than a fixed camera which does it automatically.
Having said that perhaps some police forces have mobile cameras that are fully automatic.
Wonder if we all stop at mobile units we'll get invited in!
JustinP said:
Madcop, are you descibing the handheld devices that must be aimed at a car, or the unmanned mobile devices that sit beside the road?
The camera vans are hand held tripod mounted LTR guns that are manually operated by the person inside. They are incorpoarted into a video VHS machine that is continually recording. When the laser is fired, it captures the speed and picture of the target vehicle togehther and is capable of producing an instant still photo.
Justinp said:
There was no police man with a hair dryier, but it was a mobile unit. Does a police man with a laser gun have to stop you there and then?
No. No hand held device requires that you are actually stopped to be dealt with. Even TraffPol officers using the device do send off NIP to those that they cannot stop at the time. It is preferable when standing at the roadside to stop the car and deal with it there and then as it cuts down on paper work. The NIP is given verbally at that time as opposed to having to be written and sent in the post.
Justinp said:
I drove along the same road on my way home this afternoon to check if I could have missed a 30mph limit, thankfully i had not, the only 30 is by the railway crossing. I know i was not speeding here. i never knowingly speed in any 30 and i new this was 30.
From memory the 30 limit stretches from before the top of the hill prior to the railway crossing if you are travelling from the Egham direction, over the crossing and well past the garage on the right hand side (BMW/Merc Sunningdale Carriage Company?)
It is at least 3/4 mile long maybe more.
[/quote=Justinp]
I also run a gps safety camera warning system in my car which alerted me of the 2 cameras on that stretch. I was in very heavy traffic, i remember looking at the new bently in the garage next to the bmw dealership just before the crossing, thats how slow i was going, i.e. stop start less than 10mph.
[/quote]
If you are disputing the facts You must request to be dealt with by a court. That is the proper way to deal with it.
[quote=Justinp]
Since driving down the road this afternoon i am now 100% sure it is an error. I have requested the photos and the exact location of the camera, so i look forward to posting them here.
Cheers
JustinP
>> Edited by JustinP on Friday 27th June 21:07[/quote]
No doubt all will be revealed
Justin,
When the pics come through I'd be extremely grateful to know exactly where they were located.
I walk my dog down most of the 30mph limit stretch 3 times a day, as well as drive up/down it twice a day, and never ever have I seen any activity whatsoever.
Plus - it would be big news in the pub/waitrose/etc, and word would spread like wildfire (to which no-one has ever mentioned) - and when I've asked around, no-one had any idea what I was talking about (except for the fixed gatso cameras).
Many thanks in advance,
K
When the pics come through I'd be extremely grateful to know exactly where they were located.
I walk my dog down most of the 30mph limit stretch 3 times a day, as well as drive up/down it twice a day, and never ever have I seen any activity whatsoever.
Plus - it would be big news in the pub/waitrose/etc, and word would spread like wildfire (to which no-one has ever mentioned) - and when I've asked around, no-one had any idea what I was talking about (except for the fixed gatso cameras).
Many thanks in advance,
K
kinky said:
When the pics come through I'd be extremely grateful to know exactly where they were located.
I drove down the same strect of road this monday morning and the safety camera van was there again.
I assume it was in the same place last week, which was after both the fixed gatso's heading towards London in a layby / bus stop.
I cant beleive I missed it last week. I can remeber driving along most of london road but there is a blank when I went passed that exact area.
This may have been because there was a break in the traffic and maybe I followed the cars infront at the same speed, i cant honestly say.
All I know is i never knowningly speed in a 30 or 40 limit, but as i cant remember the exact location who knows.
According to madcop these devices cant error, so that would suiggest I am guilty.
I used to have a tracker communicator that recored a time stamped position and speed every 3 seconds, I really wish this was in my car still
Hopefully the photos should be here this week
Cheers
JustinP
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