60% increase in fatalities under camera partnership
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotl...
Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
GreigM said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotl...
Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
I'm sure they'll claim it's just regression to the mean. Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
GreigM said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotl...
Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
They won't, it makes them far too much money. It's never really been about safety anyway.Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
I honestly believe that the "Speed Kills" mantra is and will continue to lead to more deaths on our roads, for the simple reason that morons who abide by this rule are not paying attention to any other aspect of their driving, and thus will still scream along at 30mph when it is wet, dry, icy etc.. and thus will lose control.
Until people actually drive to the conditions and not the speed limit, we will not reduce accidents. Therefore the Govt propoganda in my view is Directly responsible for some of these deaths.
Until people actually drive to the conditions and not the speed limit, we will not reduce accidents. Therefore the Govt propoganda in my view is Directly responsible for some of these deaths.
Must try a roundabout at 30 next time ... well, it is the speed limit, so it is safe - right? I mean, I can not be trusted to drive at the correct speed for the road that is why all these limits are everywhere so it must be ok. If it was not, they would have put a speed limit of 5 mph just before the roundabout? 
EU_Foreigner said:
Must try a roundabout at 30 next time ... well, it is the speed limit, so it is safe - right? I mean, I can not be trusted to drive at the correct speed for the road that is why all these limits are everywhere so it must be ok. If it was not, they would have put a speed limit of 5 mph just before the roundabout?
Thats a challenge !! Make use of the 30mph roundabouts before they impose 5 mph speed limits ! 
Jasandjules said:
I honestly believe that the "Speed Kills" mantra is and will continue to lead to more deaths on our roads, for the simple reason that morons who abide by this rule are not paying attention to any other aspect of their driving, and thus will still scream along at 30mph when it is wet, dry, icy etc.. and thus will lose control.
Until people actually drive to the conditions and not the speed limit, we will not reduce accidents. Therefore the Govt propoganda in my view is Directly responsible for some of these deaths.
Completely agreed.Until people actually drive to the conditions and not the speed limit, we will not reduce accidents. Therefore the Govt propoganda in my view is Directly responsible for some of these deaths.
I have noticed over the last ten years a quick decline in driving standards.
Every time I go on the motorway I overtake lines of 4 or 5 cars in the middle lane, each doing 70mph dutifully but no more than four or five car lengths from the car in front...
Astonishingly this practice does not change even in the wet...!
JustinP1 said:
Every time I go on the motorway I overtake lines of 4 or 5 cars in the middle lane, each doing 70mph dutifully but no more than four or five car lengths from the car in front...
Astonishingly this practice does not change even in the wet...!
Sunday I went to my parents place, drove down the A12, and many cars were travelling at less than a car length apart in the pouring rain. But at 60-70mph, so they were safe.....Astonishingly this practice does not change even in the wet...!
Jasandjules said:
JustinP1 said:
Every time I go on the motorway I overtake lines of 4 or 5 cars in the middle lane, each doing 70mph dutifully but no more than four or five car lengths from the car in front...
Astonishingly this practice does not change even in the wet...!
Sunday I went to my parents place, drove down the A12, and many cars were travelling at less than a car length apart in the pouring rain. But at 60-70mph, so they were safe.....Astonishingly this practice does not change even in the wet...!
EU_Foreigner said:
Must try a roundabout at 30 next time ... well, it is the speed limit, so it is safe - right? I mean, I can not be trusted to drive at the correct speed for the road that is why all these limits are everywhere so it must be ok. If it was not, they would have put a speed limit of 5 mph just before the roundabout?
try sixty much faster gives volvo drivers a wake up
Jasandjules said:
I honestly believe that the "Speed Kills" mantra is and will continue to lead to more deaths on our roads, for the simple reason that morons who abide by this rule are not paying attention to any other aspect of their driving, and thus will still scream along at 30mph when it is wet, dry, icy etc.. and thus will lose control.
Until people actually drive to the conditions and not the speed limit, we will not reduce accidents. Therefore the Govt propoganda in my view is Directly responsible for some of these deaths.
Agreed. ...and the government and other bodies with a vested interest will never "learn" (or won't admit to the truth), all the time the income from fines pays their salaries and bonuses.Until people actually drive to the conditions and not the speed limit, we will not reduce accidents. Therefore the Govt propoganda in my view is Directly responsible for some of these deaths.
Driving in the Borders area is becoming very uncomfortable.
A lot of scameras, a lot of pointless roadsigns (including one that has an exclamation mark and 300yds on it but nothing else)
large proliferation of drivers observing the speed limit but little else and a general decline of road surface quality.
A lot of scameras, a lot of pointless roadsigns (including one that has an exclamation mark and 300yds on it but nothing else)
large proliferation of drivers observing the speed limit but little else and a general decline of road surface quality.
EU_Foreigner said:
Must try a roundabout at 30 next time ... well, it is the speed limit, so it is safe - right? I mean, I can not be trusted to drive at the correct speed for the road that is why all these limits are everywhere so it must be ok. If it was not, they would have put a speed limit of 5 mph just before the roundabout?
A guy was killed up the road from us, pulling out of a minor road on a bend onto a NSL B road. He was hit by a van doing 50MPH.Police investigated and said the maximum visibility the van driver had around the bend was 35Metres. However, they said, no blame could be attributed to him as he was driving within the speed limit.
Their is more than one way to look at this though. For example in the majority of pedestrian related accidents the higher the speed the more severe the injuries.
Don't get me wrong it concerns me that these things are springing up to regularly and often in areas where more suitable alternatives could have been implemented.
I do believe that the driving standards in this country are poor at best and what we should be looking at is far more intense, prolonged driver education and much harder driving tests.
I stand to be criticized but I think that new drivers should be driving off road, eligible at age 16 at established training schools, for a set amount of hours over a twelve month period of being continually assessed and in various different driving disciplines before being able to even sit a test.
Yes it would be outrageously expensive but the roads would be safer and people would put more value on protecting their license.
I would also place a requirement for reassessment on older drivers rather than the current system of them simply re applying for their license!
Don't get me wrong it concerns me that these things are springing up to regularly and often in areas where more suitable alternatives could have been implemented.
I do believe that the driving standards in this country are poor at best and what we should be looking at is far more intense, prolonged driver education and much harder driving tests.
I stand to be criticized but I think that new drivers should be driving off road, eligible at age 16 at established training schools, for a set amount of hours over a twelve month period of being continually assessed and in various different driving disciplines before being able to even sit a test.
Yes it would be outrageously expensive but the roads would be safer and people would put more value on protecting their license.
I would also place a requirement for reassessment on older drivers rather than the current system of them simply re applying for their license!
Dr Jekyll said:
But what exactly can you learn off road?
What I mean by off road is not on a public road (I didn't make that very clear). What they would learn is how to drive a vehicle, developing driving skills, car control in varying weather conditions, judgement and the ability to use common sense.Right now in this country all you learn is how to get through a test then you are left to it for however many years regardless of how limited your driving skills may be.
This goes back to the OP's original point and includes the many drivers who think that simply travelling at or below the speed limit makes them a good driver while they have absolutely no idea of what is going on around them.
They may not trigger many cameras but that doesn't mean they are competent or should ever have been given a license in the first place!
GreigM said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotl...
Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
Look at it another way.Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
Whilst an increase from 10 to 16, on its own looks bad, this doesnt take into account the number of vehicles using the roads in Borders during the same period. Statistics, which are linked to a formulae tells the true story, 10 to 16 does not.
Neither does it mention the heading of this thread, ie "60% increase in fatalities under camera partnership", unless I am missing something.
As a suggestion, how many of the 16 were due to for example the emergency services being just a little to late them.
I am not playing down that fatalities in this area have increased, but why dont they put it in perspective and quote increase/decrease percentage, and figures for say the previous 5 years.
Scameras or not, you will never alter some drivers attitude, and how of many of us have been in the situation ourselves millmeters/seconds from disaster, but able to correct the problem, thank god?.
Forgot to mention, the article says the car skidded on ice, black ice? maybe, doesnt say, and if the tree hadnt been there, driver may survived, do we cut all trees down?
I just find these eye catching articles in the media only tells the half story, or less as this case may be.
Edited by Vipers on Tuesday 11th December 21:34
Vipers said:
GreigM said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotl...
Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
Look at it another way.Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
Whilst an increase from 10 to 16, on its own looks bad, this doesnt take into account the number of vehicles using the roads in Borders during the same period. Statistics, which are linked to a formulae tells the true story, 10 to 16 does not.
The simple fact in the above story is, the scamera partnership have overwhelmingly failed to make their area safer for road users, and despite their best but misguided efforts, in the course of that failure they have extracted Hundreds of Thousands of Pounds from the people that use those roads. For what gain?!
Spin it how you like but that simple fact will remain - what a disgraceful rotten failure through and through. Scrapping of SCP's should take place with immediate effect, and the man power then put to use with a mop and disinfectant in our hospitals.
deeps said:
Vipers said:
GreigM said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotl...
Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
Look at it another way.Terrible tragedy, 16th death so far this year in a region which is fairly heavily scamera'd - only 10 fatalities in same area last year. At what point do they admit the policy has failed?
Whilst an increase from 10 to 16, on its own looks bad, this doesnt take into account the number of vehicles using the roads in Borders during the same period. Statistics, which are linked to a formulae tells the true story, 10 to 16 does not.
The simple fact in the above story is, the scamera partnership have overwhelmingly failed to make their area safer for road users, and despite their best but misguided efforts, in the course of that failure they have extracted Hundreds of Thousands of Pounds from the people that use those roads. For what gain?!
Spin it how you like but that simple fact will remain - what a disgraceful rotten failure through and through. Scrapping of SCP's should take place with immediate effect, and the man power then put to use with a mop and disinfectant in our hospitals.
Is that spin , forgetfulness of just a symptom of the armchair angry man?
Edited by wakeywakey on Wednesday 12th December 09:38
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