Naming driver for a parking offence
Discussion
Frustratingly got an excess charge notice for parking having overstayed by 9 minutes beyond the time on my pay and display ticket. No compassion from the warden or council concerned which I guess I expected, but what does surprise me was receiving a letter stating that in accordance with section 112(2)(a) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 I have to give the full name and address of the driver or keeper of the vehicle at the time and date in question and return it within seven days.
The thing is, at the time and date there was no driver as the car was parked. Had there been a driver then the ticket could not have been issued. Whilst I know this is being pedantic about the wording can anyone confirm if this is normal practice, and if so, why do I have to give this information? Surely it is totally irrelevant who drove the car to the car park , and then drove it away afterwards, particularly in relation to the local council.
I am very tempted to write back pointing out that there was no driver at the time, but if they know something to the contrary would they please let me know, but might this cause me a legal problem? It is the truth after all.
The thing is, at the time and date there was no driver as the car was parked. Had there been a driver then the ticket could not have been issued. Whilst I know this is being pedantic about the wording can anyone confirm if this is normal practice, and if so, why do I have to give this information? Surely it is totally irrelevant who drove the car to the car park , and then drove it away afterwards, particularly in relation to the local council.
I am very tempted to write back pointing out that there was no driver at the time, but if they know something to the contrary would they please let me know, but might this cause me a legal problem? It is the truth after all.
andyps said:
The thing is, at the time and date there was no driver as the car was parked. Had there been a driver then the ticket could not have been issued. Whilst I know this is being pedantic about the wording can anyone confirm if this is normal practice, and if so, why do I have to give this information? Surely it is totally irrelevant who drove the car to the car park , and then drove it away afterwards, particularly in relation to the local council.
Are you serious, can't believe what I'm reading? 
They want to know who the driver (person in charge or vehilce at the time of offence, the one who put the car there, usually the owner of said vehicle!) is in order to chase that person for payment.
wrinx
wrinx said:
andyps said:
The thing is, at the time and date there was no driver as the car was parked. Had there been a driver then the ticket could not have been issued. Whilst I know this is being pedantic about the wording can anyone confirm if this is normal practice, and if so, why do I have to give this information? Surely it is totally irrelevant who drove the car to the car park , and then drove it away afterwards, particularly in relation to the local council.
Are you serious, can't believe what I'm reading? They want to know who the driver (person in charge or vehilce at the time of offence, the one who put the car there, usually the owner of said vehicle!) is in order to chase that person for payment.
wrinx
This is from the council to which I pay council tax, rent an office from and regularly pay (albeit only relatively small amount) for parking. And they waste that money by employing someone to find out who was "driving" for cars which slightly overstay in pay and display car parks. Good use of their residents money I don't think.
andyps said:
I know what they are asking, but for an excess charge notice it surely is not needed.
Its probably worth reading the specific legislation before deciding whether the request is valid or otherwise..Dwight VanDriver said:
..... a person who fails to comply with the requirements of subsection (2)(a) above shall be guilty of an offence .....
Fine £1000.
Deal or no deal?
dvd
If it was a private firm then fair enough, tell them to go Fine £1000.
Deal or no deal?
dvd
themselves. However if it was an official notice from the council/police etc then it looks like you might have to cough up. Remember if you've been caught throwing bricks through shop windows you'll be allowed to pay any fines/compensation off at 3p a week until its forgotten about, however if you're a responsible member of society then the powers that be will bring to bear every power they have at their disposal to extract payment. No one has answered the question as to why they are asking for driver details. That is what is strange.
The last parking ticket I got does not mention the driver, or ask for driver details etc. It just stated that as owner of the vehical I was responsible for said parking offence. All they wanted was money, not any details.
Are you sure its from the council, and not some private firm who are trying to pressure you into admitting who parked the car?
The last parking ticket I got does not mention the driver, or ask for driver details etc. It just stated that as owner of the vehical I was responsible for said parking offence. All they wanted was money, not any details.
Are you sure its from the council, and not some private firm who are trying to pressure you into admitting who parked the car?
Trax said:
No one has answered the question as to why they are asking for driver details. That is what is strange.
The last parking ticket I got does not mention the driver, or ask for driver details etc. It just stated that as owner of the vehical I was responsible for said parking offence. All they wanted was money, not any details.
Are you sure its from the council, and not some private firm who are trying to pressure you into admitting who parked the car?
Don't the council stick a parking ticket on the car? This sounds like a private firm. Just ignore it if it is.The last parking ticket I got does not mention the driver, or ask for driver details etc. It just stated that as owner of the vehical I was responsible for said parking offence. All they wanted was money, not any details.
Are you sure its from the council, and not some private firm who are trying to pressure you into admitting who parked the car?
A private firm wouldn't ask, would they??? They just apply to the DVLA for your details. Sounds like a "legit" council ticket under the RTA...but as I haven't had one of them for many years I could be wrong!
As said above, if it's a private firm just ignore but if "proper" then you did overstay the time so pay up imho...unless there is a glaring error in bay marking or execution of the ticket.
wrinx
As said above, if it's a private firm just ignore but if "proper" then you did overstay the time so pay up imho...unless there is a glaring error in bay marking or execution of the ticket.
wrinx
Edited by wrinx on Wednesday 12th December 12:34
wrinx said:
A private firm wouldn't ask, would they??? They just apply to the DVLA for your details. Sounds like a "legit" council ticket under the RTA...but as I haven't had one of them for many years I could be wrong!
Whether it's a private firm or the council they must have already applied to the DVLA to enable them to send a letter to the registered keeper. They're now asking for the driver's details as the parking 'contract' is with the driver. This makes it seem almost certain that it's a private firm and as such can probably be ignored.Edited by wrinx on Wednesday 12th December 12:34
Where a local authority has set up a parking scheme under statutory powers and payment not made for that parking or conditions breached then it is an offence under section 47 RTRA 84:
being the driver of a vehicle, leaves the vehicle in a designated parking place otherwise than as authorised by or under an order relating to the parking place, or leaves the vehicle in a designated parking place for longer after the excess charge has been incurred than the time so authorised, or fails duly to pay any charge payable , or contravenes or fails to comply with any provision of an order relating to the parking place as to the manner in which vehicles shall stand in, or be driven into or out of, the parking place, or
(b)
whether being the driver of a vehicle or not, otherwise contravenes or fails to comply with any order relating to designated parking places,
shall, subject to section 48 of this Act, be guilty of an offence
Section 48 let off:
Acceptance of payment as bar to proceedings under s. 47.— (1) Where a parking meter relating to the space in which a vehicle is left in a designated parking place indicates that the period for which payment was made for the vehicle by an initial charge has expired, but the authority by whom the parking place is controlled are satisfied that the initial charge was not paid, acceptance by the authority of payment of the excess charge shall be a bar to proceedings for an offence under section 47(1)(a) of this Act of failing to pay the initial charge.
So in their wisdom they also included in S112 RTRA 84 the following nugget:
Where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be guilty of an offence to which this section applies—
(a)the person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as he may be required to give—
(i) by or on behalf of a chief officer of police, or
(ii) in the case of an offence under section [F2 35A(1)] or against section 47 of this Act, by or on behalf of a chief officer of police or, in writing, by or on behalf of the local authority for the parking place in question;
to help them nail the driver.
Now if it is a private park, as stated, i.e. Supermarket car park or no statutory authority, then they cannot invoke S 112 and have to whistle for drivers details.
dvd
being the driver of a vehicle, leaves the vehicle in a designated parking place otherwise than as authorised by or under an order relating to the parking place, or leaves the vehicle in a designated parking place for longer after the excess charge has been incurred than the time so authorised, or fails duly to pay any charge payable , or contravenes or fails to comply with any provision of an order relating to the parking place as to the manner in which vehicles shall stand in, or be driven into or out of, the parking place, or
(b)
whether being the driver of a vehicle or not, otherwise contravenes or fails to comply with any order relating to designated parking places,
shall, subject to section 48 of this Act, be guilty of an offence
Section 48 let off:
Acceptance of payment as bar to proceedings under s. 47.— (1) Where a parking meter relating to the space in which a vehicle is left in a designated parking place indicates that the period for which payment was made for the vehicle by an initial charge has expired, but the authority by whom the parking place is controlled are satisfied that the initial charge was not paid, acceptance by the authority of payment of the excess charge shall be a bar to proceedings for an offence under section 47(1)(a) of this Act of failing to pay the initial charge.
So in their wisdom they also included in S112 RTRA 84 the following nugget:
Where the driver of a vehicle is alleged to be guilty of an offence to which this section applies—
(a)the person keeping the vehicle shall give such information as to the identity of the driver as he may be required to give—
(i) by or on behalf of a chief officer of police, or
(ii) in the case of an offence under section [F2 35A(1)] or against section 47 of this Act, by or on behalf of a chief officer of police or, in writing, by or on behalf of the local authority for the parking place in question;
to help them nail the driver.
Now if it is a private park, as stated, i.e. Supermarket car park or no statutory authority, then they cannot invoke S 112 and have to whistle for drivers details.
dvd
It definitely was the council rather than a private organisation. I am asking them to verify that the times on the machines concerned were checked but think I will end up having to pay, just trying to make them do some work for their money. I might just pay and not say who was driving and see what happens - if they then persue those details letters to the local papers will probably be in order, particularly as they ran a piece last week saying that many of the last 2 years worth of on street parking fines are illegal as the signs are wrong.
mouseymousey said:
wrinx said:
A private firm wouldn't ask, would they??? They just apply to the DVLA for your details. Sounds like a "legit" council ticket under the RTA...but as I haven't had one of them for many years I could be wrong!
Whether it's a private firm or the council they must have already applied to the DVLA to enable them to send a letter to the registered keeper. They're now asking for the driver's details as the parking 'contract' is with the driver. This makes it seem almost certain that it's a private firm and as such can probably be ignored.Edited by wrinx on Wednesday 12th December 12:34
wrinx
"Frustratingly got an excess charge notice for parking having overstayed by 9 minutes beyond the time on my pay and display ticket. No compassion from the warden or council concerned which I guess I expected,"
Why would the warden give you compassion? why would the council? You don't want compassion you want to be excused from paying.
Why would you even contact the council? I was parked in your space but hadn't payed for it. I dont think i should have to pay my fine!
come on, its hands up and pay the fine time. IMO if youve actually time wasted down at the council while your obviously in the wrong you should have to pay double.
Did they request the driver details on the original ticket? probably not. maybe its because you have been messing them about they now want more information from you?
Why would the warden give you compassion? why would the council? You don't want compassion you want to be excused from paying.
Why would you even contact the council? I was parked in your space but hadn't payed for it. I dont think i should have to pay my fine!
come on, its hands up and pay the fine time. IMO if youve actually time wasted down at the council while your obviously in the wrong you should have to pay double.
Did they request the driver details on the original ticket? probably not. maybe its because you have been messing them about they now want more information from you?
Trueman sparks said:
"Frustratingly got an excess charge notice for parking having overstayed by 9 minutes beyond the time on my pay and display ticket. No compassion from the warden or council concerned which I guess I expected,"
Why would the warden give you compassion? why would the council? You don't want compassion you want to be excused from paying.
Why would you even contact the council? I was parked in your space but hadn't payed for it. I dont think i should have to pay my fine!
come on, its hands up and pay the fine time. IMO if youve actually time wasted down at the council while your obviously in the wrong you should have to pay double.
Did they request the driver details on the original ticket? probably not. maybe its because you have been messing them about they now want more information from you?
Prat.Why would the warden give you compassion? why would the council? You don't want compassion you want to be excused from paying.
Why would you even contact the council? I was parked in your space but hadn't payed for it. I dont think i should have to pay my fine!
come on, its hands up and pay the fine time. IMO if youve actually time wasted down at the council while your obviously in the wrong you should have to pay double.
Did they request the driver details on the original ticket? probably not. maybe its because you have been messing them about they now want more information from you?
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