Even the police say we're persecuted

[streaky]

Jan Berry, head of the Police Federation, said yesterday that motorists and the middle classes are being persecuted to make the statistics look good.

Mrs Berry also said, "We've got more people counting things than we've got out there doing things."

She re-iterated what many of us on here have said all along, that targets from Whitehall have distorted police priorities and encouraged officers to arrest people for minor offences such as speeding rather than concentrating on serious crime.

All it needs now is for the Tory party to wake up and see the way to success at the next election.

Streaky

I imagine she knows that few people are 'arrested' for speeding, but it's a sound-bite - S

[bob1179]

streaky said:

All it needs now is for the Tory party to wake up and see the way to success at the next election.

Streaky

I imagine she knows that few people are 'arrested' for speeding, but it's a sound-bite - S

We sit, we wait. We sit and wait some more. However hard we wish for this to happen, I feel it won't.

Someone give 'Call me Dave' Dave a slap to wake him up...

[7db]

She's just trying to build middle-class support for her pay rise.

[Chrispy Porker]

7db said:

She's just trying to build middle-class support for her pay rise.

I doubt it.
The fed make up her pay to that of a C/Insp to compensate for sacrificing her career to lead the fed. Pension too, for that matter.
Mind you I think the MBE will be a while coming...

[Derek Smith]

7db said:

She's just trying to build middle-class support for her pay rise.

She's being a lot more subtle than that. The police federation is not a union, except in the rather weird Russian communist meaning of the term. The federation is a management tool. It was foisted on the police, from constable to chief inspector - the federated ranks - by legislation. What it means is that, if anyone in the federated ranks wants to join any organisation like a union, they can't. It has to be the federation. It is limited by statute what it can support, discuss or lobby. The so-called left or liberal papers, such as the Guardian, like to call the federation a union but it's not. Cleverly, the fed has a large catchment which includes chief inspector as well as constable. Almost by definition, a CI is career minded and at that level, if you step out of line it is written on your personnel file in big red letters. The rules and regulations are controlled by 'the management' i.e. parliament, for very good reasons if you look at it from their point of view. A police union could be very powerful indeed. Even in its current emasculated form it has a certain degree of pull.

But the laws were created some time ago, in a different political climate when such swingeing limitations on freedom of personal choice were seemingly more acceptable than they are now. Any challenge in the courts might well overturn the political control the government has on the federation.

The challenge on the right to strike is unlikely to overturn it. But I don’t think that is the intent of the federation. However, any decision by a high court or even the ECHR, to continue with the ban might well contain the rider that there must be some quid pro quo and that when independent arbitration decides on a level of pay, then the government must accept it. Or, to put it another way, you can’t have your cake and eat it.

This nice little dig by the federation on chasing figures is not so much an attempt to get people on the fed's side as a threat to the government, and labour in particular. The intent is, quite clearly, political. But the fed is proscribed by law from making any political statement. However, it is very mild and not so much a shot across the bows but more a pointing of a gun. What is being said is that the federation has over the years kept the dirty little secrets, such as inept management, that would embarrass the government. Even during the years of the Thatcher attack on wages and conditions the fed kept out of overt political attacks.

Things have changed a bit since then. There are ‘political’ lobby-groups in the federation. The black police association is, quite clearly, a group which lobbies on behalf of a racial minority. Whilst this is against the letter of the federation law, after allowing the women police grouping, there was no way such a partial group could be banned.

The labour party has always suggested that law and order is safe in their hands. Who can forget their 'tough on crime, tough on police wages' catchphrase? At the moment they are struggling in the polls. What they do not need is for the Tories to take the law and order vote of grey and middle class waverers. If this blows up in his face, Brown could well suffer some kind of leadership challenge before the next election. What it will do is to curtail some of his support. Jacqui Smith is an easy target, even more so at the moment. Brown has now got the choice of supporting her or bottling it. He will, he has to really, go for the former initially. But watch this space.

What this statement by the fed means is: watch it, Brown. We can cause you a lot of trouble. Don’t take our passivity for granted.

[Chrispy Porker]

The other point is that the support of the middle class is an irrelevance in relation to pay.
I am sure that most of the middle class would like to see nurses paid a reasonable wage. Fat lot of good that has done them.
I expect several legal challenges to the Home Secretary over this, and an awful lot of embarrassing things will emerge as Derek alluded to.

For a Home Secretary to make an enemy of the police is a very grave step.

Mind you, her address to the Federation conference next year should be worth hearing.

[streaky]

Derek and Cripsy - have a bunch of these:



Streaky

[Chrispy Porker]

Your're welcome .

[Mad Moggie2]

streaky said:

Derek and Cripsy - have a bunch of these:



Streaky

ALONG with a few of these



... to go with the s

[Jasandjules]

Chrispy Porker said:

For a Home Secretary to make an enemy of the police is a very grave step.

Mind you, her address to the Federation conference next year should be worth hearing.

Do you think the Govt is simply proceeding through the entire "Civil Service" and p****ng them all off one at a time?

NHS last year with patronising Pat telling them they've never been so happy (funny, they didn't notice). Part time defence secretary telling the Military they are spoilt rotten.. And now a Home Sec who thinks that giving the Scottish Police the 2.5% backdated but not the English will endear her in some way........

[G51CAV]

FishFace said:

Encouraging arrests for speeding? What garbage.

The only way the middle-classes and motorists have been hammered is through automated enforcement. There are less traffic Police year on year to hit the motorist harder. Most traffic doesn't mean dick in relation to statistics as it isn't recordable of a detection.

2nd this!
Not that I agree with the answer of cameras everywhere instead of an actual police presence.
Traffic offences are recorded differently and where their is no denying that it generates revenue it doesn't contribute to crime statistics.

[Cat]

Jasandjules said:

And now a Home Sec who thinks that giving the Scottish Police the 2.5% backdated but not the English will endear her in some way........

Jacqui Smith didn't give the Scottish police anything. The issue of police pay is devolved and the pay rise was agreed by the Scottish exec.

Makes me glad I moved north of the border

[NobleGuy]

Chrispy Porker said:

Mind you, her address to the Federation conference next year should be worth hearing.

I was thinking that, but then I realised course they'll just eject anybody with anything but warm applause.

[paddyhasneeds]

NobleGuy said:

Chrispy Porker said:

Mind you, her address to the Federation conference next year should be worth hearing.

I was thinking that, but then I realised course they'll just eject anybody with anything but warm applause.

It'll certainly be interesting to see if the same standards are applied to hecklers that were applied to that poor sod at the Labour Party Conference (IIRC and that was the event).

[Oilchange]

who is going to arrest a police heckler? the police?? I reckon she won't attend citing a heavy cold or some other twaddle...

[Chrispy Porker]

I can recall Kenneth Clark being laughed at. He thought we were laughing with him. Not the case. I thought he was the worst until recently.
There was also a Tory in the early 80's who got complete and utter silence at the end of his speech.

Honestly I don't see her being invited. It is by invitation and I don't think it will be forthcoming.

[Lostusernamedamn]

Nearly 2 million "crimes" solved each year (by the way that's exceeding a meaningless speed limit - and I doubt any one of them was in the process of crashing).

[xxplod]

The Police Federation is a toothless tiger. Housing allowance, new pension sheme, abolition of numerous allowance and now our pay formula. They huff and puff and when the government wins they huff and puff a bit more. Total waste of space, poor value for money (members pay c£18 pcm - someone correct me, you may be able to tell I'm not in it) too much money spent on booze at AGM, annual crap "gift"... I could go on.

They scare new officers in to joining, quoting officers who have huge PF help when they've been in the sh1t. Don't get me wrong, I have several colleagues who do good work as 'Federation Friends' but by and large officers would be better off buying insurance for legal expenses and putting quite a few ££ in their pockets.

All IMHO of course.

[G51CAV]

xxplod said:

The Police Federation is a toothless tiger. Housing allowance, new pension sheme, abolition of numerous allowance and now our pay formula. They huff and puff and when the government wins they huff and puff a bit more. Total waste of space, poor value for money (members pay c£18 pcm - someone correct me, you may be able to tell I'm not in it) too much money spent on booze at AGM, annual crap "gift"... I could go on.

They scare new officers in to joining, quoting officers who have huge PF help when they've been in the sh1t. Don't get me wrong, I have several colleagues who do good work as 'Federation Friends' but by and large officers would be better off buying insurance for legal expenses and putting quite a few ££ in their pockets.

All IMHO of course.

Toothless tigers about sums them up!
Maybe they are limited because of the conditions they work under, but just for once it would nice if they would stick their heads above the parapit and voice the concerns of those who elected them rather than just trying to constantly mediate between rank and file officers and either senior management or politicians.

[Derek Smith]

xxplod said:

The Police Federation is a toothless tiger. Housing allowance, new pension sheme, abolition of numerous allowance and now our pay formula. They huff and puff and when the government wins they huff and puff a bit more. Total waste of space, poor value for money (members pay c£18 pcm - someone correct me, you may be able to tell I'm not in it) too much money spent on booze at AGM, annual crap "gift"... I could go on.

They scare new officers in to joining, quoting officers who have huge PF help when they've been in the sh1t. Don't get me wrong, I have several colleagues who do good work as 'Federation Friends' but by and large officers would be better off buying insurance for legal expenses and putting quite a few ££ in their pockets.

All IMHO of course.

The Federation was designed that way. Officers do not have the right of free association and the Federation is the only game in town. The 'constitution', such as it is, is prescribed and cannot be changed by the members. And all officers in the federated ranks are members whether they pay into it or not. All the fee does is provide extra benefits.

In my time - I don't know if this has changed - the chief inspectors' 'block' had the same voting power as the inspectors' block, and so on to PCs. This despite the fact that there are over two times as many inspectors and CIs, nearly four times as many sergeants as inspectors and over four PCs for every skipper. Or, to put it another way, each CI's vote had >40 times as much power as a PC's.

Some, although by no means all, divisional commanders did their best to undermine the authority of the fed by threats and intimidation, by blocking permission of representatives to attend meetings and such. In my experience, those who did this were almost always the inept ones. In point of fact, always the inept ones. Supers who listed to the fed reps were those who were able to cope with the post.

On my promotion to inspector chat with the ChCon he asked me if I was 'active in the Federation'. I said no. He said that he liked his inspectors to take an interest as it allowed them to see what was going on 'behind their backs'. Ie, a sort of fifth column. Nice.

So don't blame the fed reps for being toothless. They are the victims of repressive legislation.

Mind you, as in any group, there are awful reps who do it for reasons other than of serving their follow officers.