Don't leave your engine running unattended
Discussion
Daily Mail said:
A motorist has been fined for defrosting his car outside his home because he left it unattended with the engine running.
Ken Hardman was given a £30 fixed penalty notice for leaving his engine on to warm up his car during the cold snap in the morning.
He was prosecuted under the Road Traffic Act offence of 'quitting' which is when a person leaves their vehicle's engine running while they are not in it.
The 45-year-old was visited by a police officer as part of Operation Cold Start which targets residential areas of Chorley and Leyland in Lancashire where car thieves are operating.
Ken Hardman was given a £30 fixed penalty notice for leaving his engine on to warm up his car during the cold snap in the morning
Mr Hardman, of Whittle-le-Woods, says thieves had no way of stealing his silver Mercedes saloon because the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
He said: "I heard a knock on the door at 8.20am and the officer asked me whether the car outside was mine and said that, if it was, I was committing a crime.
"I think it's completely outrageous because the car has a function on the automatic key which means the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
"It's not possible to defrost your car and sit inside it because it's too cold and I think they don't take that into consideration.
"This fine means that I'm paying stealth charges even though my car was secured and locked. There was no way of stealing it.
"I pay council tax and a lot of it goes towards policing so it's a complete and utter disgrace to have to pay for defrosting the car, which is a company car.
"I feel like I haven't been dealing with the police force but with a police farce."
During Operation Cold Start officers have been taking the keys out of unattended cars and giving crime prevention advice to car owners.
Inspector Jo Keay, geographic co-ordinator for Copull and Wheeton, said: "As the car was parked on the road unattended and left running with the keys in the ignition the individual was committing an offence of 'quitting'.
"The officer tried to offer words of advice to the individual but the male refused to accept them and so the officer was left with no option but to issue a fixed penalty notice of £30.
"Every year we appeal to members of the public not to leave their cars running unattended on cold frosty mornings which are easy pickings for thieves.
"Not only does this practice invalidate your insurance if cars are stolen in this way but there are also offenders looking to steal high powered cars to commit crime, especially at this time of year."
Ken Hardman was given a £30 fixed penalty notice for leaving his engine on to warm up his car during the cold snap in the morning.
He was prosecuted under the Road Traffic Act offence of 'quitting' which is when a person leaves their vehicle's engine running while they are not in it.
The 45-year-old was visited by a police officer as part of Operation Cold Start which targets residential areas of Chorley and Leyland in Lancashire where car thieves are operating.
Ken Hardman was given a £30 fixed penalty notice for leaving his engine on to warm up his car during the cold snap in the morning
Mr Hardman, of Whittle-le-Woods, says thieves had no way of stealing his silver Mercedes saloon because the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
He said: "I heard a knock on the door at 8.20am and the officer asked me whether the car outside was mine and said that, if it was, I was committing a crime.
"I think it's completely outrageous because the car has a function on the automatic key which means the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
"It's not possible to defrost your car and sit inside it because it's too cold and I think they don't take that into consideration.
"This fine means that I'm paying stealth charges even though my car was secured and locked. There was no way of stealing it.
"I pay council tax and a lot of it goes towards policing so it's a complete and utter disgrace to have to pay for defrosting the car, which is a company car.
"I feel like I haven't been dealing with the police force but with a police farce."
During Operation Cold Start officers have been taking the keys out of unattended cars and giving crime prevention advice to car owners.
Inspector Jo Keay, geographic co-ordinator for Copull and Wheeton, said: "As the car was parked on the road unattended and left running with the keys in the ignition the individual was committing an offence of 'quitting'.
"The officer tried to offer words of advice to the individual but the male refused to accept them and so the officer was left with no option but to issue a fixed penalty notice of £30.
"Every year we appeal to members of the public not to leave their cars running unattended on cold frosty mornings which are easy pickings for thieves.
"Not only does this practice invalidate your insurance if cars are stolen in this way but there are also offenders looking to steal high powered cars to commit crime, especially at this time of year."
"Not only does this practice invalidate your insurance if cars are stolen in this way but there are also offenders looking to steal high powered cars to commit crime, especially at this time of year."
No it won't if you are able to lock the the vehicle and close the windows so it cannot be stolen in which case you are taking reasonable precautions to prevent the theft of the vehicle.
No it won't if you are able to lock the the vehicle and close the windows so it cannot be stolen in which case you are taking reasonable precautions to prevent the theft of the vehicle.
A few people do this in my road when they're cold and I think they're bloody stupid. Just because they don't want to endure a few minutes in the cold, they run a significant risk of losing their car to a thief?
Quite frankly they should be thankful they get a £30 fine and a talking to! And so should we - it's a f**k of a lot less work to an under resourced police force than having to deal with a stolen car...
Quite frankly they should be thankful they get a £30 fine and a talking to! And so should we - it's a f**k of a lot less work to an under resourced police force than having to deal with a stolen car...
Edited by pikey on Friday 28th December 15:08
Interesting;
thingy said:
Inspector Jo Keay, geographic co-ordinator for Copull and Wheeton, said: "As the car was parked on the road unattended and left running with the keys in the ignition the individual was committing an offence of 'quitting'.
Mine could well be on the road, with the engine running, but no keys in the ignition, locked and primed to alarm when the engine shuts off. Am I committing the same offence? I suspect he got the fine because he wasn't suitably appreciative and defferential to the plod that knocked on his door. Not because there was a significant risk of his car being nicked.
This operation is clearly aimed at preventing thefts by opportunist thieves not organised and skilled car thieves who wouldn't care if the car was locked alarmed and garaged if they wanted to nick it.
This operation is clearly aimed at preventing thefts by opportunist thieves not organised and skilled car thieves who wouldn't care if the car was locked alarmed and garaged if they wanted to nick it.
If the circumstances are accurate then I'd suggest discretion is best used. Not sure why you'd want to give a ticket to a decent tax paying person for such an offence.
Out of interest I've always wondered if a 'turbo timer' would be a defence to this offence given it's designed to keep the car from damage.
Out of interest I've always wondered if a 'turbo timer' would be a defence to this offence given it's designed to keep the car from damage.
FishFace said:
If the circumstances are accurate then I'd suggest discretion is best used. Not sure why you'd want to give a ticket to a decent tax paying person for such an offence.
Out of interest I've always wondered if a 'turbo timer' would be a defence to this offence given it's designed to keep the car from damage.
Given that any attempt to move the car while the TT is running will shut off the engine (if it's installed correctly) it should be protection enough.Out of interest I've always wondered if a 'turbo timer' would be a defence to this offence given it's designed to keep the car from damage.
MonkeyHanger said:
pikey said:
it's a f**k of a lot less work to an under resourced police force than having to deal with a stolen car...
Yet the same under-resourced Police Force apparently has time to trail the streets looking for people leaving their engines running...Daily Mail said:
A motorist has been fined for defrosting his car outside his home because he left it unattended with the engine running.
Mr Hardman, of Whittle-le-Woods, says thieves had no way of stealing his silver Mercedes saloon because the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
"I think it's completely outrageous because the car has a function on the automatic key which means the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
However a brick through the window and anyone could have driven offMr Hardman, of Whittle-le-Woods, says thieves had no way of stealing his silver Mercedes saloon because the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
"I think it's completely outrageous because the car has a function on the automatic key which means the windows and doors can be locked while the engine is running.
Daily Mail said:
"It's not possible to defrost your car and sit inside it because it's too cold and I think they don't take that into consideration.
Stand outside with a coat on then.Its not the North pole.Daily Mail said:
"This fine means that I'm paying stealth charges even though my car was secured and locked. There was no way of stealing it.
There was a way of stealing it though.Daily Mail said:
"I pay council tax and a lot of it goes towards policing so it's a complete and utter disgrace to have to pay for defrosting the car, which is a company car.
Is he saying that as its a company car its exempt from these laws then?Is he saying that as like the rest of us he pays council tax and so is exempt from any action if he breaks any laws?
Daily Mail said:
"I feel like I haven't been dealing with the police force but with a police farce."
I bet they thought they were dealing with someone just as stupid.Daily Mail said:
Inspector Jo Keay, geographic co-ordinator for Copull and Wheeton, said: "As the car was parked on the road unattended and left running with the keys in the ignition the individual was committing an offence of 'quitting'.
"The officer tried to offer words of advice to the individual but the male refused to accept them and so the officer was left with no option but to issue a fixed penalty notice of £30.
So bloke breaks law.Police offer words of advise.Bloke gobs off and says your wrong your idiots etc i pay your wages blah blah blah and gets a ticket."The officer tried to offer words of advice to the individual but the male refused to accept them and so the officer was left with no option but to issue a fixed penalty notice of £30.
Good.
Edited by TPS on Friday 28th December 15:43
pikey said:
Quite frankly they should be thankful they get a £30 fine and a talking to! And so should we - it's a f**k of a lot less work to an under resourced police force than having to deal with a stolen car...
But it's sad that it's come to this don't you think?It's the 21st century and rather than finding ways to deal with the criminal who commits crime, once again it's much simpler and a "quick tick in the detection box" to deal with Mr Householder who will grumble a bit but compliantly pay the fine.
Edited by paddyhasneeds on Friday 28th December 16:35
paddyhasneeds said:
pikey said:
Quite frankly they should be thankful they get a £30 fine and a talking to! And so should we - it's a f**k of a lot less work to an under resourced police force than having to deal with a stolen car...
But it's sad that it's come to this don't you think?It's the 21st century and rather than finding ways to deal with the criminal who commits crime, once again it's much simpler and a "quick tick in the detection box" to deal with Mr Householder who will grumble a bit but compliantly pay the fine.
Edited by paddyhasneeds on Friday 28th December 16:35
DucatiGary said:
so, if you go by vons answer in the other thread (now deleted) you just need to lock the doors of your car and your fine.
spare keys would be usefull for this
No.spare keys would be usefull for this
If you can remove the keys from the ignition & the engine continues to run in order to cool the turbo for a set number of minutes, then I would say (IMHO) that would qualify for the exemption.
Locking your car whilst leaving keys in the ignition & the engine running in order to defrost it wouldn't.
Could they not have just done a leaflet drop in the local rag/letterboxes, rather than send police around to your door like a door to door sales person, to raise awareness. Or was that tried and failed? Wonder if they actually caught any real criminals, i.e. the ones trying to steal the cars in the "sting"?
Road Pest said:
Could they not have just done a leaflet drop in the local rag/letterboxes, rather than send police around to your door like a door to door sales person, to raise awareness. Or was that tried and failed? Wonder if they actually caught any real criminals, i.e. the ones trying to steal the cars in the "sting"?
I would imagine most residents were happy to see the police out and about in the area.This bloke was given a chance to accept friendly words of advise.He refused and gobbed off by the sounds of things so the officer gave him a ticket.Its not like the officer walked up to him and said thats an offence here is your ticket.People say the police should use their discretion on here and the officer did but it was thrown back in his face.
vonhosen in the other thread said:
Police spokesperson said:
Inspector Jo Keay, geographic co-ordinator for Copull and Wheeton, said: "As the car was parked on the road unattended and left running with the keys in the ignition the individual was committing an offence of 'quitting'.
"The officer tried to offer words of advice to the individual but the male refused to accept them and so the officer was left with no option but to issue a fixed penalty notice of £30.
Regulation 107(1) of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986."The officer tried to offer words of advice to the individual but the male refused to accept them and so the officer was left with no option but to issue a fixed penalty notice of £30.
Same offence as not setting handbrake effectively when unattended.
i have to admit when driving an auto its very rare i bother with the handbrake for parking as putting in park as far as im aware locks the gearbox so is a 'better' brake anyway.
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