Figthing a parking ticket letter
Discussion
Hi all
I am trying to find the thread which contains the excellent well wriiten letter by one of the ph members regarding a private parking ticket. It included case facts about the contract being with the driver and not the owner. I have tried searching but cant find it.
Any help directing me towards the thread would be great.
I am trying to find the thread which contains the excellent well wriiten letter by one of the ph members regarding a private parking ticket. It included case facts about the contract being with the driver and not the owner. I have tried searching but cant find it.
Any help directing me towards the thread would be great.
It will be found in either this thread http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0... or one of the threads linked within it.
Personally I am following the "Ignore them" approach. Had 2 letters threatening court action a couple of months ago. Silence since then.
Personally I am following the "Ignore them" approach. Had 2 letters threatening court action a couple of months ago. Silence since then.
Ignore it.
By responding you are only confirming you are an 'active lead' which is worth following up, as after all it shows that if you are the type of person to take it seriously, then after pressure of a few more letters you will most likely pay up.
If you dont respond there is the possibility to them that they have the wrong address, a false/cloned plate or you know they wont go to court. As such after a couple of letters they will give up to work on the first group above!
By responding you are only confirming you are an 'active lead' which is worth following up, as after all it shows that if you are the type of person to take it seriously, then after pressure of a few more letters you will most likely pay up.
If you dont respond there is the possibility to them that they have the wrong address, a false/cloned plate or you know they wont go to court. As such after a couple of letters they will give up to work on the first group above!
JustinP1 said:
Ignore it.
By responding you are only confirming you are an 'active lead' which is worth following up, as after all it shows that if you are the type of person to take it seriously, then after pressure of a few more letters you will most likely pay up.
If you dont respond there is the possibility to them that they have the wrong address, a false/cloned plate or you know they wont go to court. As such after a couple of letters they will give up to work on the first group above!
I think there's a lot of truth in what you say. I took the same approach 18 months ago & haven't heard anything in about a year & I've got two more pending which I'm also ignoring. One from last September & one from December, I'll see what happens.By responding you are only confirming you are an 'active lead' which is worth following up, as after all it shows that if you are the type of person to take it seriously, then after pressure of a few more letters you will most likely pay up.
If you dont respond there is the possibility to them that they have the wrong address, a false/cloned plate or you know they wont go to court. As such after a couple of letters they will give up to work on the first group above!
...there's never a grey headed racer when you want him
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
dvd
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
dvd
Dwight VanDriver said:
...there's never a grey headed racer when you want him
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
dvd
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
dvd
- Streakysend the letter. i used Streaky's excellent letter as template - took me 20 mins to amend to my circumstances and cost a 1st class stamp. In return i got satisfaction of getting a grovelling letter from NCP and the knowledge that i've never used that car park since (was daily user before).
cheers
refresher
cheers
refresher
Parking Eye,
C/O 797 London Road,
Thornton Heath,
Surrey,
CR7 6YY
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing with reference to PCN number A00006_xxxxxx which you recently issued directly to my home address without prior warning.
The PCN simply states my vehicles arrival time, departure time and the time spent in the car park, It then states that because it exceeded the time allowed I as the keeper, owner or hirer of the vehicle in question am responsible for the payment of the outstanding PCN.
However, there is no statement on the PCN explaining either the terms and conditions I am supposed to have agreed to or in what way I have specifically breached any such terms and conditions. So there appears to be no basis for the charge.
May I point out that only the driver of the vehicle and the owner of the land are party to the contract (unless you act as the owners agent). Therefore I am not responsible as ‘I was not the driver of the vehicle’.
The PCN format itself quite obviously purports to be of an official nature with a misleading design and title. This document is nothing more than a notice from your company sent unsolicited to my personal address.
I am also distressed that when I contacted your company to discuss this matter I was told that If I didn’t pay this notice I would receive a visit from your bailiffs ‘Commercial Credit Services’ who would seize possessions. When I pointed out that they needed a ‘Court Order’. I was told that because CCS were a company owned by Parking Eye that it would not be necessary to obtain a court order. When I pointed out that the was a civil matter relating to a private parking area, your representative misrepresented you by referring to offences under ‘Road Traffic Act’ which result in ‘Penalty Charge Notice’s’.
May I point out that under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.
It is a ‘Criminal Offence’ if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:
(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;
(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
(c) falsely represent themselves to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;
(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.
I believe your representative by stating that your company did not require a ‘Court Order’ to seize possessions and drawing similarities between this matter and offences committed under the ‘Road Traffic Act’ you contravened Sections (a), (b) and (c). In addition to this because the design and title of your document are misleading I believe you contravene section (d).
In addition to this your conduct in this instance is in direct breach of the DVLA code of conduct pertaining to the enforcement of parking restrictions on private land. Specifically, point 3.2 of the code states:- “Notices giving full details of the parking contravention and the proposed course of action to be taken by the enforcer should be placed in a prominent position on the ‘offending’ vehicle without causing it damage. Vehicle keepers should be made aware that their name and address will be requested from the DVLA”. No such notice was ever placed on my vehicle but you clearly obtained my personal details from the DVLA without my prior knowledge in order to send your PCN to my address. Under these circumstances I will consider writing a strong letter of complaint to the DVLA regarding your abuse of this system. If pressed they may decide to withdraw your company’s right to obtain vehicle keeper information.
From a legal standpoint, I understand that private charges can only be based on contract. You will have to prove in court that I agreed to a contract, agreed to park under the terms of the contract, that I agreed to pay a charge if I breached the contract, that I actually did breach the contract and that the charge is both fair and not an unenforceable penalty charge which is not a reasonable estimate of your loss. I deny that such a contract ever existed and I believe this is an unenforceable charge. I would like to remind you that I was not the driver.
I hope you will now agree that not only is this an inappropriate penalty, but you are also in breach of the code of practice as stated by the DVLA. I am sure your company would have due regard for its reputation for operating both ethically and within regulation, particularly as you are effectively representing the interests of a high profile company. I now expect a full written apology and notification in writing that you are going to withdraw your charges with immediate effect.
Your failure to respond appropriately to this letter within the next 12 working days will result in the following actions on my part. I will report your company to the DVLA for your failure to comply with the code of practice. I will report your company and Aldi to the office of fair trading. I will write a strong letter of complaint to both my local MP and contact the local press. I will write a strong letter of complaint to Aldi (your client) regarding your conduct and methods used in an unlawful attempt to extract money. I will report this entire incident to the police for nuisance and harassment and for attempting to extract money using threatening documentation purporting to be of an official nature.
You should also take note that further threats for money will most certainly be reported to the police under the protection of harassment act 1997.
Kind Regards,
C/O 797 London Road,
Thornton Heath,
Surrey,
CR7 6YY
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing with reference to PCN number A00006_xxxxxx which you recently issued directly to my home address without prior warning.
The PCN simply states my vehicles arrival time, departure time and the time spent in the car park, It then states that because it exceeded the time allowed I as the keeper, owner or hirer of the vehicle in question am responsible for the payment of the outstanding PCN.
However, there is no statement on the PCN explaining either the terms and conditions I am supposed to have agreed to or in what way I have specifically breached any such terms and conditions. So there appears to be no basis for the charge.
May I point out that only the driver of the vehicle and the owner of the land are party to the contract (unless you act as the owners agent). Therefore I am not responsible as ‘I was not the driver of the vehicle’.
The PCN format itself quite obviously purports to be of an official nature with a misleading design and title. This document is nothing more than a notice from your company sent unsolicited to my personal address.
I am also distressed that when I contacted your company to discuss this matter I was told that If I didn’t pay this notice I would receive a visit from your bailiffs ‘Commercial Credit Services’ who would seize possessions. When I pointed out that they needed a ‘Court Order’. I was told that because CCS were a company owned by Parking Eye that it would not be necessary to obtain a court order. When I pointed out that the was a civil matter relating to a private parking area, your representative misrepresented you by referring to offences under ‘Road Traffic Act’ which result in ‘Penalty Charge Notice’s’.
May I point out that under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.
It is a ‘Criminal Offence’ if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:
(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;
(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
(c) falsely represent themselves to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;
(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.
I believe your representative by stating that your company did not require a ‘Court Order’ to seize possessions and drawing similarities between this matter and offences committed under the ‘Road Traffic Act’ you contravened Sections (a), (b) and (c). In addition to this because the design and title of your document are misleading I believe you contravene section (d).
In addition to this your conduct in this instance is in direct breach of the DVLA code of conduct pertaining to the enforcement of parking restrictions on private land. Specifically, point 3.2 of the code states:- “Notices giving full details of the parking contravention and the proposed course of action to be taken by the enforcer should be placed in a prominent position on the ‘offending’ vehicle without causing it damage. Vehicle keepers should be made aware that their name and address will be requested from the DVLA”. No such notice was ever placed on my vehicle but you clearly obtained my personal details from the DVLA without my prior knowledge in order to send your PCN to my address. Under these circumstances I will consider writing a strong letter of complaint to the DVLA regarding your abuse of this system. If pressed they may decide to withdraw your company’s right to obtain vehicle keeper information.
From a legal standpoint, I understand that private charges can only be based on contract. You will have to prove in court that I agreed to a contract, agreed to park under the terms of the contract, that I agreed to pay a charge if I breached the contract, that I actually did breach the contract and that the charge is both fair and not an unenforceable penalty charge which is not a reasonable estimate of your loss. I deny that such a contract ever existed and I believe this is an unenforceable charge. I would like to remind you that I was not the driver.
I hope you will now agree that not only is this an inappropriate penalty, but you are also in breach of the code of practice as stated by the DVLA. I am sure your company would have due regard for its reputation for operating both ethically and within regulation, particularly as you are effectively representing the interests of a high profile company. I now expect a full written apology and notification in writing that you are going to withdraw your charges with immediate effect.
Your failure to respond appropriately to this letter within the next 12 working days will result in the following actions on my part. I will report your company to the DVLA for your failure to comply with the code of practice. I will report your company and Aldi to the office of fair trading. I will write a strong letter of complaint to both my local MP and contact the local press. I will write a strong letter of complaint to Aldi (your client) regarding your conduct and methods used in an unlawful attempt to extract money. I will report this entire incident to the police for nuisance and harassment and for attempting to extract money using threatening documentation purporting to be of an official nature.
You should also take note that further threats for money will most certainly be reported to the police under the protection of harassment act 1997.
Kind Regards,
Plotloss said:
Ignore it, do not respond in any way.
Contract is with the driver, not the RK
RK is under no obligation to disclose the driver.
Thus they have no one to enact their threats of court with.
How is that any different from a parking ticket put on by an "official traffic warden" in the street? Or are you not making a distinction with private parking?Contract is with the driver, not the RK
RK is under no obligation to disclose the driver.
Thus they have no one to enact their threats of court with.
RichBurley said:
Plotloss said:
Ignore it, do not respond in any way.
Contract is with the driver, not the RK
RK is under no obligation to disclose the driver.
Thus they have no one to enact their threats of court with.
How is that any different from a parking ticket put on by an "official traffic warden" in the street? Or are you not making a distinction with private parking?Contract is with the driver, not the RK
RK is under no obligation to disclose the driver.
Thus they have no one to enact their threats of court with.
Private companies do not have this authority. Use of a private park is only by private contract. Thus if you do not respond to their threats they have no way of of following up their claim which is against the person who entered into the contract.
Unless that can prove in court that the person the DVLA says owns the car with that reg no was actually driving that car that day, they cannot hope to win a court case.
However, these companies make their money from intimidating mass letters and intimidation though the distress of clamping or towing, they have no interest is following up the minority of claims against people that the said tactics have no effect on!
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