Just been caught - what to do?
Discussion
Got flashed by a hand held zapper on the A3 through Kingston about a month ago, driving my brother's Toyota (he was asleep in the back). He received a summons through the post, asking him to identify the driver. I took the letter on board, did some research, and wrote a letter politely asking for photo evidence to back up the case. Just had the reply complete with a crap computer generated photo. The letter again asks me to identify the driver and the cropped photo shows just my car with a truck on the other side of the carriageway. What to do?
I was hoping, like my friend Mark, that the photo would show other vehicles on the adjacent lanes - apparently that way it is possible to get away with it as they could have set the zapper off. I cannot see from the photo if there are cars near by or not. Shall I write back having tried to identify the driver but "cannot remember sir", or ask for a better photo? Help! Of course, I am doing this all for my brother. If points are to be dished out then who gets them? My bro is already on 6 and i am about to receive a summons for a speeding offence the other week at 106mph. I think someone has got it in for us!
To make things worse I'm hoping to buy a Chimaera soon!
I'm relying on you lot!
cheers,
S-450
I was hoping, like my friend Mark, that the photo would show other vehicles on the adjacent lanes - apparently that way it is possible to get away with it as they could have set the zapper off. I cannot see from the photo if there are cars near by or not. Shall I write back having tried to identify the driver but "cannot remember sir", or ask for a better photo? Help! Of course, I am doing this all for my brother. If points are to be dished out then who gets them? My bro is already on 6 and i am about to receive a summons for a speeding offence the other week at 106mph. I think someone has got it in for us!
To make things worse I'm hoping to buy a Chimaera soon!
I'm relying on you lot!
cheers,
S-450
I don't see how you are doing this for your brother - he wasn't driving. Therefore you are doing it for yourself.
You can try and get off the charge if you like thats your perogative, but if you were my brother and i got ponts because you didn't own up to it, then i'd be a bit miffed....
Sorry......
If you were to follow the "don't know the driver route" you would need to provide evidence that you both drove that day long that road and therefore it could be either of you.....
HTH
You can try and get off the charge if you like thats your perogative, but if you were my brother and i got ponts because you didn't own up to it, then i'd be a bit miffed....
Sorry......
If you were to follow the "don't know the driver route" you would need to provide evidence that you both drove that day long that road and therefore it could be either of you.....
HTH
Buffalo said:
If you were to follow the "don't know the driver route" you would need to provide evidence that you both drove that day long that road and therefore it could be either of you.....
Pretty easy when your brother was actually in the car at the time!
Just say you were taking it in turns, and if the photo isn't clear enough to tell between you (and if your brother doesn't mind testifying to that end) all is well.
ok Alan thanks for your reply, but if we do your idea i.e. the story about sharing the driving, will that mean that we will both get away with it or will they prosecute one of us? Obviously I'll take it on the chin if it's one of us. My bro does know about this so there's no animosity!!
450
450
sterling450 said:
ok Alan thanks for your reply, but if we do your idea i.e. the story about sharing the driving, will that mean that we will both get away with it or will they prosecute one of us? Obviously I'll take it on the chin if it's one of us. My bro does know about this so there's no animosity!!
450
Your brother will have to prove that he went to reasonable lengths to find out who was driving to avoid prosecution for failing to ID the driver. Maybe asking to see the photo *is* going to reasonable lengths.
Make that point in your letter to them.
The thing is....
*IF* you go down the route of "sorry don't know who the driver is" until the point where the CPS may say, they are going to prosecute anyway, they will prosecute your brother as owner and therefore (in their eyes) driver of the vehicle.
If you then turn around and say - ok its a fair cop it was me, can they do you for perjury or something?
Seems a bit didgy to me and therefore one of the
may be better judged on this one. If your brother is at 6 points, potentially with another 3 on the way - he doesn't need your 3 as well, as this will likely end in a ban =1 2! 
>> Edited by Buffalo on Thursday 24th July 15:06
*IF* you go down the route of "sorry don't know who the driver is" until the point where the CPS may say, they are going to prosecute anyway, they will prosecute your brother as owner and therefore (in their eyes) driver of the vehicle.
If you then turn around and say - ok its a fair cop it was me, can they do you for perjury or something?
Seems a bit didgy to me and therefore one of the
may be better judged on this one. If your brother is at 6 points, potentially with another 3 on the way - he doesn't need your 3 as well, as this will likely end in a ban =1 2! >> Edited by Buffalo on Thursday 24th July 15:06
Buffalo said:
*IF* you go down the route of "sorry don't know who the driver is" until the point where the CPS may say, they are going to prosecute anyway, they will prosecute your brother as owner and therefore (in their eyes) driver of the vehicle.
They can't prosecute you just for owning a car!*
You just send them passport photos of you and your bro, saying
"We can't tell which of us it was from the photo you have sent, if you have any further suggestions as to how we may find out we will be very happy to help"
But they can't charge two people with one offence and they can't do you for failing to inform if you've tried to!
I'd wait for a response from Madcop, Tonyrec or Bob first, but I think that's enough doubt to have the case dropped.
* I think...
Alan420 said:
Buffalo said:
*IF* you go down the route of "sorry don't know who the driver is" until the point where the CPS may say, they are going to prosecute anyway, they will prosecute your brother as owner and therefore (in their eyes) driver of the vehicle.
They can't prosecute you just for owning a car!*
You just send them passport photos of you and your bro, saying
"We can't tell which of us it was from the photo you have sent, if you have any further suggestions as to how we may find out we will be very happy to help"
But they can't charge two people with one offence and they can't do you for failing to inform if you've tried to!
I'd wait for a response from Madcop, Tonyrec or Bob first, but I think that's enough doubt to have the case dropped.
* I think...
I was trying to make the point that if the owner says it wasn't him driving, but couldn't remember who it was at that time (and more importantly does not provide evidence as to why this maybe the case), then as far as the CPS are concerned, he has failed to provide enough evidence for them to agree it wasn't him driving. I very much doubt they (CPS) will just turn around and drop it, they will just continue to pursue the claim against the owner of the car - who in the absense of another driver, or thief must have been driving it....
>> Edited by Buffalo on Thursday 24th July 15:44
Buffalo said:
they will just continue to pursue the claim against the owner of the car - who in the absense of another driver, or thief must have been driving it....
But there is another driver!
They were both in the car on the day in question, just not sure who was actually driving at the time.
They were obviously on a long haul and these things happen officer!
This happened to me a while back. I wrote a letter explaining that several people drive my car so it could be any one of us. Requested the photo which was only just showed that there were two people in the car.
All that followed was another NIP, to which I replied with 'still can't be sure even with the photo'
This was over a year ago and still heard nothing.
The question is will your brother be prepared to take the risk?
All that followed was another NIP, to which I replied with 'still can't be sure even with the photo'
This was over a year ago and still heard nothing.
The question is will your brother be prepared to take the risk?
sterling450 said:
ok Alan thanks for your reply, but if we do your idea i.e. the story about sharing the driving, will that mean that we will both get away with it or will they prosecute one of us? Obviously I'll take it on the chin if it's one of us. My bro does know about this so there's no animosity!!
450
When you take this approach (i.e tell them more thn one person was driving) the onus is shifted to the prosecution at court to prove who the driver is,if the pic is poor quality they wont normally proceed.
Points will probably remain the same if found guilty at court but fine and costs will rise
Your choice
The question is will your brother be prepared to take the risk?
I'm sure I can talk him into it!
No, seriously, I'm going to print out this thread (might give it a few more days) and read it through again with my bro and we'll have to then make a decision. He's only a wee student so as i need my car to get to work and back i think he would take the points on the chin if it came to it.
I'm sure I can talk him into it!
No, seriously, I'm going to print out this thread (might give it a few more days) and read it through again with my bro and we'll have to then make a decision. He's only a wee student so as i need my car to get to work and back i think he would take the points on the chin if it came to it.
I'm currently following this plan. When I got my NIP I called the speeding ticket office and asked what to do if I didn't know who was driving. She had a look at the photo and told me it showed nothing & then suggested I write on the back of the NIP that I didn't know who was driving. Anyway, I've written them a letter requesting the photo as I want to check myself. I'm just gonna see what happens. If the photo is as dodgy as the lady at the NIP HQ says then I guess I write another letter and see what happens. If they want to proceed to court then I guess they have to decide if they really have enough evidence.
Is there any chance they could send a crap foto back, in which case you say you can't ID the driver and then take you to court and produce a good quality foto? That's the only thing that worries me really.
Is there any chance they could send a crap foto back, in which case you say you can't ID the driver and then take you to court and produce a good quality foto? That's the only thing that worries me really.
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