Speed limit reduction

[Rob-C]

As is fashionable, the speed limit on the A646 former trunk road has been reduced from 30 to 20 mph through Hebden Bridge town centre.

As things stand, the speed limit signs for the new 20 zone are in place and are (mostly) covered up with black bags. However some 20 roundels have been painted on the road surface at intervals.

I've just been told by Calderdale highways department that the traffic order for the 20 limit came into force in November 2007 and that they are still waiting for the contractor to finish off the last bits of signage before they uncover the 20 limit signs.

How does this work then? I, along with pretty much everyone else using the road assumed that the new limit wasn't yet in force, because the signs were bagged over. Am I right in thinking that neither the new limit nor the old 30 limit are currently enforceable, due to the contradictory signage?

[hornetrider]

Yes. What you should do is speed down the high street at 60mph cackling loudly and giving them the two-fingered salute out the window, safe in the knowledge that you are immune from prosectution.

HTH

[Rob-C]

hornetrider said:

Yes. What you should do is speed down the high street at 60mph cackling loudly and giving them the two-fingered salute out the window, safe in the knowledge that you are immune from prosectution.

HTH

My point is that, in an effort to be seen to "do something" the council have left us for months on end, in a situation where even the worst dickheads cannot be sanctioned.

[tvrgit]

hornetrider said:

Yes. What you should do is speed down the high street at 60mph cackling loudly and giving them the two-fingered salute out the window, safe in the knowledge that you are immune from prosectution.

HTH

No.

The roundels on the road are not enforceable, ie advisory.

The enforceable signs, ie the 20 mph "lollipops" are the enforceable signs - if they are covered then the order has not been invoked (the fact that it was made some months ago but not invoked, may not matter - the order comes into effect when all the signs etc are in place).

When the new order becomes effective, the old order (for the 30 limit) will be revoked. Until then, the previous limit will still apply - ie probably 30.

Try driving up and down at 60 "giving the finger" if you like - you're still liable for breaking the old (but still existing) speed limit.

HTRH

Edited by tvrgit on Tuesday 12th February 15:03

[Rob-C]

tvrgit said:

it was made some months ago but not invoked

That was what I was trying to get clarified by the council guy. I asked him in so many words if the order actually came in to force in November and he said yes. I was left with the impression that the legal limit is 20 right now, but the signs were still covered up due to a cockup with their contractor. Which would leave the law in a bit of a shambles IMHO.

Edited by Rob-C on Tuesday 12th February 15:33

[Jasandjules]

Rob-C said:

Which would leave the law in a bit of a shambles IMHO.

I would have said in that case if you got nicked at say 30mph your defence would be fairly clear, with the bags still on the 20s. It would certainly be an interesting case as well..

[tvrgit]

Rob-C said:

tvrgit said:

it was made some months ago but not invoked

That was what I was trying to get clarified by the council guy. I asked him in so many words if the order actually came in to force in November and he said yes. I was left with the impression that the legal limit is 20 right now, but the signs were still covered up due to a cockup with their contractor. Which would leave the law in a bit of a shambles IMHO.

Edited by Rob-C on Tuesday 12th February 15:33

depends on the wording of the Order - it would be worded so that it is made on a certain date, but doesn't become or effective or come into force until the signs etc are in place. Each Council is responsible for the ording of the articles of its own Orders, there is no standard, so without looking at the specific Order, I can't say.

They would have to make a real cock-up of the Order to leave it so that the old 30mph limit was revoked before the 20 came into force.

[tvrgit]

Jasandjules said:

Rob-C said:

Which would leave the law in a bit of a shambles IMHO.

I would have said in that case if you got nicked at say 30mph your defence would be fairly clear, with the bags still on the 20s. It would certainly be an interesting case as well..

That also depends on the exact wording of the Order.

[streaky]

tvrgit said:

They would have to make a real cock-up of the Order to leave it so that the old 30mph limit was revoked before the 20 came into force.

Given the educational standard of some (increasing to many) who work for the Councils, a "real cock-up" is not at all unlikely - Streaky

[SplatSpeed]

if it is that dangerous go through at 10 thats what i do

ers

[tvrgit]

streaky said:

tvrgit said:

They would have to make a real cock-up of the Order to leave it so that the old 30mph limit was revoked before the 20 came into force.

Given the educational standard of some (increasing to many) who work for the Councils, a "real cock-up" is not at all unlikely - Streaky

Erm... well it wouldn't be unprecedented right enough.

[fluffnik]

Rob-C said:

Which would leave the law in a bit of a shambles IMHO.

It is a complete shambles.

We need to rip it up and start again.

No thieving, no thuggery, the end.

[Jasandjules]

tvrgit said:

Jasandjules said:

Rob-C said:

Which would leave the law in a bit of a shambles IMHO.

I would have said in that case if you got nicked at say 30mph your defence would be fairly clear, with the bags still on the 20s. It would certainly be an interesting case as well..

That also depends on the exact wording of the Order.

Indeed, and that was my point really. It COULD lead to motorists being nicked for "speeding" despite obeying the 30 signs. That would be a nice case, and might even lead to a fair bit of publicity, after all, surely even the moronic majority of motorists who have no idea how to drive would baulk at the thought of getting nicked whilst obeying the posted limit................