Raise speed limits and Abolish speed cameras

[turbobloke]

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/item.htm?id=4388

'Raise Speed Limits, Abolish Speed Cameras' says Tory study

Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:51

Radical proposals to free up congestion on UK roads where today published by leading Conservative pressure group CWF (Conservative Way Forward).

Malcolm Heymer author of Stop The War Against Drivers, said: "Since the mid 1990s road deaths have been increasing, while the number of speeding convictions has risen by over 1000% and prosecutions for parking offences have more than doubled. These initiatives have no safety benefit, they are a tax on mobility and rather than the money being put back into transport it's just used to pay for the bureaucracy and wages that go with it."

[paranha]

Too much common sense to succeed.

[vonhosen]

paranha said:

Too much common sense to succeed.

Or hot air ?
Road deaths increasing since the 1990s ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 09:52

[turbobloke]

vonhosen said:

paranha said:

Too much common sense to succeed.

Or hot air ?
Road deaths increasing since the 1990s ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 09:52

Suspect that's a paraphrase of something like 'KSI has increased in the speedcam era' or similar.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38883.593831.4...

[supermono]

vonhosen said:

paranha said:

Too much common sense to succeed.

Or hot air ?
Road deaths increasing since the 1990s ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 09:52

Using the political term "in real terms", yes they have. You see if you invested 1000 pounds, and got less than inflationary return every year, 10 years on you'd rightly claim you'd lost money because you have "in real terms"

It's the same with deaths on the road. Interest is paid in the form of improved medical technology and survivability brought about by making cars safer. Yet we've not enjoyed the benefits by reducing the numbers killed. This is because of crappy road safety policy.

So "in real terms", sure thing, deaths have risen.

SM

[Jasandjules]

Finally the Tories have noticed a policy which will make people want to vote for them too....

I thought road deaths were now fairly static, having been falling until dependance upon "speed kills" was established, despite substantial increases in vehicle safety and medical technology.

[vonhosen]

supermono said:

vonhosen said:

paranha said:

Too much common sense to succeed.

Or hot air ?
Road deaths increasing since the 1990s ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 09:52

Using the political term "in real terms", yes they have. You see if you invested 1000 pounds, and got less than inflationary return every year, 10 years on you'd rightly claim you'd lost money because you have "in real terms"

It's the same with deaths on the road. Interest is paid in the form of improved medical technology and survivability brought about by making cars safer. Yet we've not enjoyed the benefits by reducing the numbers killed. This is because of crappy road safety policy.

So "in real terms", sure thing, deaths have risen.

SM

:yawn:

But you forget to add in the counter balances of more drivers (including greater foreign vehicle use), increased mileage etc etc and the laws of diminishing returns.
(Hospital survivability is also questionable if you end up contracting something there that kills you)

Did the article say 'in real terms' either ?
Or did it just spout a false claim ?

[turbobloke]

vonhosen said:

false claim

As posted already this is the source of the accurate claim that may, in various places, be paraphrased - you don't even need to read that far in:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38883.593831.4...

[vonhosen]

Jasandjules said:

Finally the Tories have noticed a policy which will make people want to vote for them too....

I thought road deaths were now fairly static, having been falling until dependance upon "speed kills" was established, despite substantial increases in vehicle safety and medical technology.

CWF (Conservative pressure group) isn't the Tory party speaking is it ?
And I can't honestly see the CWF quoting the opinions of "Stop the war against motorists" changing the voting preferences of many can you ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 10:46

[vonhosen]

turbobloke said:

vonhosen said:

false claim

As posted already this is the source of the accurate claim that may, in various places, be paraphrased - you don't even need to read that far in:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38883.593831.4...

I still can't see anything supporting the claim ""Since the mid 1990s road deaths have been increasing". Now that simple claim is either true or not, which is it ?
If it's true he has my attention, if it's not he's losing my attention.

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 10:45

[turbobloke]

vonhosen said:

turbobloke said:

vonhosen said:

false claim

As posted already this is the source of the accurate claim that may, in various places, be paraphrased - you don't even need to read that far in:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38883.593831.4...

I still can't see anything supporting the claim ""Since the mid 1990s road deaths have been increasing". Now that simple claim is either true or not, which is it ?

It's a claim made by a journalist, as explained previously, so go talk with them if you wish to pursue it.

Regarding the increase in KSI since the speedcam era, it's a disgrace don't you think? Particularly in view of what you said previously: "speed cameras are all we need to make the roads safer"

[Bing o]

vonhosen said:

And I can't honestly see the CWF quoting the opinions of "Stop the war against motorists" changing the voting preferences of many can you ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 10:40

I can.

[turbobloke]

Bing o said:

vonhosen said:

And I can't honestly see the CWF quoting the opinions of "Stop the war against motorists" changing the voting preferences of many can you ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 10:40

I can.

Me too.

[Jasandjules]

vonhosen said:

Jasandjules said:

Finally the Tories have noticed a policy which will make people want to vote for them too....

I thought road deaths were now fairly static, having been falling until dependance upon "speed kills" was established, despite substantial increases in vehicle safety and medical technology.

CWF (Conservative pressure group) isn't the Tory party speaking is it ?
And I can't honestly see the CWF quoting the opinions of "Stop the war against motorists" changing the voting preferences of many can you ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 10:46

Not the Tory party no, BUT the question is whether or not that moves to a policy working group etc..I've no idea.

But yes, I can indeed see it getting more votes. After all, there's very little to choose between the parties, so if one promises not to prosecute motorists for such trivialities and do something about yobs etc.. then yes, I think people may well pay attention to that.

Sadly, they are more inclined to pay attention to that than a promised referendum on our becoming another state of Europe.

[Hooli]

turbobloke said:

Bing o said:

vonhosen said:

And I can't honestly see the CWF quoting the opinions of "Stop the war against motorists" changing the voting preferences of many can you ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 10:40

I can.

Me too.

me too, being allowed to travel without punishment taxes for daring to not watch trisha would be wonderful.
that & getting the traitors who are giving our country away out of power are the main things i vote for.

[vonhosen]

Hooli said:

turbobloke said:

Bing o said:

vonhosen said:

And I can't honestly see the CWF quoting the opinions of "Stop the war against motorists" changing the voting preferences of many can you ?

Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 16th February 10:40

I can.

Me too.

me too, being allowed to travel without punishment taxes for daring to not watch trisha would be wonderful.
that & getting the traitors who are giving our country away out of power are the main things i vote for.

But 'has' it 'changed' any of your voting practices, or did you already vote tory ?
And what makes you think you know that is important to those who didn't vote tory last time & what is likely to be the really important factors for them come election time ?
For me personally speed cameras will not have any relevance in respect of where my vote goes. They are not important enough.

[turbobloke]

Don't get too worked up over this one issue VH, Incapability Brown will be spending more time with his family after the next General Election whatever the CWFG might publish.

[Hooli]

vonhosen said:

But 'has' it 'changed' any of your voting practices, or did you already vote tory ?
And what makes you think you know that is important to those who didn't vote tory last time & what is likely to be the really important factors for them come election time ?
For me personally speed cameras will not have any relevance in respect of where my vote goes. They are not important enough.

tbh i dont think ive ever even considered trusting labour so would never vote for them. equally though anyone else could loose my vote by declaring war on the motorist the way these scum do.
i spend a lot of time on the road for enjoyment so scameras annoy me. i see endless poor & downright dangerous driving which never appears to be dealt with. personnaly id much rather see plod sat on a bridge with a video camera. then they could spend a morning there then the afternoon in the office sorting the evidence & sending cases to the CPS for all the tailgating/cutting up/mobiles/general crap driving they'd see.
or even just a civi with a camera & plod reviewing the tapes, whatever makes sense cost & man hours wise.
any party that wanted safe roads would get my vote for that alone.

[vonhosen]

turbobloke said:

Don't get too worked up over this one issue VH, Incapability Brown will be spending more time with his family after the next General Election whatever the CWFG might publish.

I'm not the one getting worked up over this issue, it's me saying it's not an important issue for me.
Whatever Mr Brown is doing after the next election, I just can't see speed cameras being a big player in the result.

[mark69sheer]

vonhosen said:

turbobloke said:

Don't get too worked up over this one issue VH, Incapability Brown will be spending more time with his family after the next General Election whatever the CWFG might publish.

I'm not the one getting worked up over this issue, it's me saying it's not an important issue for me.
Whatever Mr Brown is doing after the next election, I just can't see speed cameras being a big player in the result.

You're correct VH. It wont. Peoples finances and tax issues are the reason people vote wether thats because they vote labour so they can carry on with state support or Tory because they want to keep most of what they have legitimately earned.Criminals will vote labour because they are the party of releasing or not punishing criminals.

Speed cameras are actually becoming a non issue where insurance companies are now not penalising drivers with up to six points.

I now have a clean licence and a sat nav with camera warning so from now on I could drive at up to 25mph over any speed limit posted and slow down where signs or my sat nav tell me where to be careful.
Even if caught by a camera at 25mph over the limit the worst effect will be an NIP £60 fine and 3 points on my clean licence.

So cameras are hardly instrumental in bringing down speeds really. As the increasing camera convictions prove they don't slow people down anyway.
I didn't slow much with my 6 points either just made extra sure where the camera were.
However don't worry. I have been speeding all my life every day and I allways obey 40mph and below signs. NSL speed is dependent upon conditions.