Bobbies taken off beat in Sussex to catch motorists
Discussion
Bobbies taken off beat to catch rogue drivers
The Brighton Argos isn't renowned for letting the facts stand in the way of a good story, nor contradicting itself to make a good headline, however I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
I find it hard to believe that they would really take substantial number of police off the streets - is the pressure to drop the number of KSI that intense?
And before anybody tries to interpret this as BIB bashing, it's not. Decisions like that must come from government.
The Brighton Argos isn't renowned for letting the facts stand in the way of a good story, nor contradicting itself to make a good headline, however I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.
I find it hard to believe that they would really take substantial number of police off the streets - is the pressure to drop the number of KSI that intense?
And before anybody tries to interpret this as BIB bashing, it's not. Decisions like that must come from government.
As a resident of Sussex I'd be surprised if they could take any bobbies off the beat! I suppose I see some in Crawley once a week or so, but in the rural area the only people on the beat are the PCSOs!
There are a significant amount of accidents on the roads in Sussex, but I don't believe that speed is necessary the significant factor in them.
The simple fact is that the roads are truly awful. East Sussex does not have any motorway at all, and I think the only stretch of dual carriageway is a small section of the A27 around Eastbourne. West Sussex has a couple of miles of the M23, and then for dual carriageways it has the A23, A27 and A24 and even these have sections of single carriageway.
The single carriageway roads are predominately through rural areas, limited opportunities for overtaking, poor road surfaces, overgrown trees, blocked drains etc and deer. Gritting of roads is also an issue and fairly regularly it appears the gritters have not ventured out.
I would be interested to know how many of the accidents were single vehicle sole occupant accidents with no known cause as I suspect many are caused by swerving to avoid deer.
The police themselves have been linked to a number of accidents (because the scrote they have been chasing has crashed). There have also been a number of high-profile high speed accidents on the A23, and there really is no reason to throw your car at the scenery on that road.
I suspect the primary cause of accidents is people trying to mke progress on inadequate roads, getting held up behind slower moving traffic, unable to overtake sensibly etc.
Does anyone know if there is any detailed data on Sussexs accidents online anywhere?
There are a significant amount of accidents on the roads in Sussex, but I don't believe that speed is necessary the significant factor in them.
The simple fact is that the roads are truly awful. East Sussex does not have any motorway at all, and I think the only stretch of dual carriageway is a small section of the A27 around Eastbourne. West Sussex has a couple of miles of the M23, and then for dual carriageways it has the A23, A27 and A24 and even these have sections of single carriageway.
The single carriageway roads are predominately through rural areas, limited opportunities for overtaking, poor road surfaces, overgrown trees, blocked drains etc and deer. Gritting of roads is also an issue and fairly regularly it appears the gritters have not ventured out.
I would be interested to know how many of the accidents were single vehicle sole occupant accidents with no known cause as I suspect many are caused by swerving to avoid deer.
The police themselves have been linked to a number of accidents (because the scrote they have been chasing has crashed). There have also been a number of high-profile high speed accidents on the A23, and there really is no reason to throw your car at the scenery on that road.
I suspect the primary cause of accidents is people trying to mke progress on inadequate roads, getting held up behind slower moving traffic, unable to overtake sensibly etc.
Does anyone know if there is any detailed data on Sussexs accidents online anywhere?
pull the other one. all i ever saw there was PCSOs.Chrispy Porker said:
Every other force in the country is trying desperately to scrape together enough detections to meet their targets by Mar 31.
Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
I think they have cracked the crime figures quite easily. They make it so difficult to report a crime no one bothers! Thats a slight exageration I must admit and Derek Smith will probably be along to say how easy it is!Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
Mind you they did catch 2 people for criminal damage on Friday evening, and even had lovely evidence too. The police officers and PCSOs that attended the incident were very good, and had a good sense of humour. However the incident occurred at around 9.00pm and I think they were still processing it at around 1.30am, which can't be a good use of resources.
Slight quibble - I think you mean the A22 north of Eastbourne and the A27 Brighton-Lewes stretch, but that is about it for East Sussex.
There was an accident in Eastbourne some years ago when a patrol car on call swerved to avoid an emerging vehicle and hit a building. The car was responding to an incident in Lewes...
As the proceeds of speeding crimes no longer go to local enforcers presumably the re-deployment will be somewhat limited as there is little financial incentive.
There was an accident in Eastbourne some years ago when a patrol car on call swerved to avoid an emerging vehicle and hit a building. The car was responding to an incident in Lewes...
As the proceeds of speeding crimes no longer go to local enforcers presumably the re-deployment will be somewhat limited as there is little financial incentive.
Chrisgr31 said:
As a resident of Sussex I'd be surprised if they could take any bobbies off the beat! I suppose I see some in Crawley once a week or so, but in the rural area the only people on the beat are the PCSOs!
Working in Crawley I see them quite regularly, but I'm not sure their aware places like Horsham exist.Totally agree with you on the roads, truly dreadful. There are a few nice backroads for early morning drives though.
Chrisgr31 said:
Chrispy Porker said:
Every other force in the country is trying desperately to scrape together enough detections to meet their targets by Mar 31.
Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
I think they have cracked the crime figures quite easily. They make it so difficult to report a crime no one bothers! Thats a slight exageration I must admit and Derek Smith will probably be along to say how easy it is!Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
Mind you they did catch 2 people for criminal damage on Friday evening, and even had lovely evidence too. The police officers and PCSOs that attended the incident were very good, and had a good sense of humour. However the incident occurred at around 9.00pm and I think they were still processing it at around 1.30am, which can't be a good use of resources.
Sergeant Marc Clowthier from the RPU said:
the officers would not be taken away from their normal jobs and would use the cameras only if there was an issue with speeding in the area
How odd. The article talks about the number of people killed but not how they died. Isn't it likely to be a waste of an already precious resource -- bobbies on the beat -- randomly pursuing speeding drivers? I'd have thought the right thing to do is to first understand the cause of those accidents and then tackle those causes.
Will anybody be held to account for making such an apparently senseless decision when it's found to be ill-conceived?
Also, does a process run alongside this "experiment" to gauge its success or otherwise and to reverse it if/when it's found to fail?
SM
supermono said:
Sergeant Marc Clowthier from the RPU said:
the officers would not be taken away from their normal jobs and would use the cameras only if there was an issue with speeding in the area
How odd. The article talks about the number of people killed but not how they died. Isn't it likely to be a waste of an already precious resource -- bobbies on the beat -- randomly pursuing speeding drivers? I'd have thought the right thing to do is to first understand the cause of those accidents and then tackle those causes.
Will anybody be held to account for making such an apparently senseless decision when it's found to be ill-conceived?
Also, does a process run alongside this "experiment" to gauge its success or otherwise and to reverse it if/when it's found to fail?
SM
Chrisgr31 said:
I think they have cracked the crime figures quite easily. They make it so difficult to report a crime no one bothers! Thats a slight exageration I must admit and Derek Smith will probably be along to say how easy it is!
Derek is along to say that this is political posturing in order to back up their annual appeal for more officers. These things go around but the IRA bomb in the Grand did not make Sussex flavour of the month with MPs. The aggravation during the Labour party's annual binges just reinforces it.The viscious Blunkett attack on the Chief Constable, Paul Whitehouse, was a symptom of this antagonism although I accept that he never seemed to need a reason to pick on someone.
'Dozens of beat officers'? Yeah, I believe it.
East Sussex has some lovely roads. I did my driving courses out there.
Chrispy Porker said:
Every other force in the country is trying desperately to scrape together enough detections to meet their targets by Mar 31.
Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
Speaking as either a company owner or a manager of a sales team,Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
You can't sell if each sale generates a mountain of paperwork.
To meet sales targets you have to be on the road as much as possible.
leaving the paperwork to back end staff.
The whole police system isn't even designed to meet targets and so will fail unless like salesmen who undersell to get a sale the officers now hang around outside a macdonalds looking for people dropping litter and such.
The whole police system is now seriously in need of a top down review.
Jacqui Smiff is acting stupidly by just switching emphasis every other day depending on what the papers say.
mark69sheer said:
Chrispy Porker said:
Every other force in the country is trying desperately to scrape together enough detections to meet their targets by Mar 31.
Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
Speaking as either a company owner or a manager of a sales team,Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
You can't sell if each sale generates a mountain of paperwork.
To meet sales targets you have to be on the road as much as possible.
leaving the paperwork to back end staff.
The whole police system isn't even designed to meet targets and so will fail unless like salesmen who undersell to get a sale the officers now hang around outside a macdonalds looking for people dropping litter and such.
The whole police system is now seriously in need of a top down review.
Jacqui Smiff is acting stupidly by just switching emphasis every other day depending on what the papers say.
Chrispy Porker said:
mark69sheer said:
Chrispy Porker said:
Every other force in the country is trying desperately to scrape together enough detections to meet their targets by Mar 31.
Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
Speaking as either a company owner or a manager of a sales team,Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
You can't sell if each sale generates a mountain of paperwork.
To meet sales targets you have to be on the road as much as possible.
leaving the paperwork to back end staff.
The whole police system isn't even designed to meet targets and so will fail unless like salesmen who undersell to get a sale the officers now hang around outside a macdonalds looking for people dropping litter and such.
The whole police system is now seriously in need of a top down review.
Jacqui Smiff is acting stupidly by just switching emphasis every other day depending on what the papers say.
However...
Lets just suppose targets were met when the prisons are full anyway....
The Marky plan for law and order...
1. All foreign nationals illegals in prison to be returned / deported
unless their sentences are more than a year whereby..
2. They will be shipped along with all other prisoners whos time left to serve is more than 2 yrs to a specified detention centre in another country such as India or Thailand etc who will contract to detain such prisoners at a minimum standard at a cost much less than our own jail costs.
3. Our own jails will then be used for the turnaround of prisoners and remand prisoners with generally less than a year to serve.
4. All Police officers will be placed on the beat as much as possible.
5. PCSO's will be retrained in administration.
to either... Follow up incidents and take routine details once the arresting officer has filled out the commited crime part. or fill the details in back at the station by contacting the persons specified..witnesses etc.. on the arresting officers original statements.
6. PCSO's are to be used as back up to arresting officers instead of calling for police officers to assist themselves.
(This of course would require the wholesale review of PCSO's physical attributes pertaining for fitness for purpose)
just a few off 'top o' me'ed'
mark69sheer said:
Chrispy Porker said:
mark69sheer said:
Chrispy Porker said:
Every other force in the country is trying desperately to scrape together enough detections to meet their targets by Mar 31.
Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
Speaking as either a company owner or a manager of a sales team,Perhaps Sussex have already met theirs.
You can't sell if each sale generates a mountain of paperwork.
To meet sales targets you have to be on the road as much as possible.
leaving the paperwork to back end staff.
The whole police system isn't even designed to meet targets and so will fail unless like salesmen who undersell to get a sale the officers now hang around outside a macdonalds looking for people dropping litter and such.
The whole police system is now seriously in need of a top down review.
Jacqui Smiff is acting stupidly by just switching emphasis every other day depending on what the papers say.
However...
Lets just suppose targets were met when the prisons are full anyway....
The Marky plan for law and order...
1. All foreign nationals illegals in prison to be returned / deported unless their sentences are more than a year whereby..
2. They will be shipped along with all other prisoners whos time left to serve is more than 2 yrs to a specified detention centre in another country such as India or Thailand etc who will contract to detain such prisoners at a minimum standard at a cost much less than our own jail costs.
3. Our own jails will then be used for the turnaround of prisoners and remand prisoners with generally less than a year to serve.
4. All Police officers will be placed on the beat as much as possible.
5. PCSO's will be retrained in administration.
to either... Follow up incidents and take routine details once the arresting officer has filled out the commited crime part. or fill the details in back at the station by contacting the persons specified..witnesses etc.. on the arresting officers original statements.
6. PCSO's are to be used as back up to arresting officers instead of calling for police officers to assist themselves.
(This of course would require the wholesale review of PCSO's physical attributes pertaining for fitness for purpose)
just a few off 'top o' me'ed'
- Streakystreaky said:
Derek Smith said:
The viscious Blunkett attack on the Chief Constable, ...
Nasty and sticky, no doubt. A nice, invented word, Derek
- StreakyI liked Argyle though. Highly intelligent and didn't care who he upset. Obviously not material to lead a public enquiry under new labour. After I got my stripes I was in no. 2 Old Bailey with a job I'd done as a PC. The very prominent defence barrister kept addressing me as PC. I corrected it the first time, then the second but on the third I let it go. Argyle was not so easy though. He stopped the cross examination and said:
Mr Thompson [whatever], the inverted chevrons on the officer's tunic denote the rank of sergeant and I would appreciate it if you used the designation when addressing him.
The barrister mumbled something along the lines of it saying PC on the statement. Argyle said: One assumes, therefore, that the officer has in the meantime been awarded a promotion.
He turned to me and said: And how long have you been in the City of London police. I said: Six years, my Lord. Argyle: That's an unusually short time for promotion is it not? Me: Yes, my Lord, but not unheard of. Argyle: The Commissioner must think highly of you then. The court extends its congratulations to you, sergeant.
I acknowledged him with a slight incline of my head. No further questions for me then, after the next witness, the chap changed his plea. Argyle had obviously explained the lie of the land to his barrister.
I was doing an armed guard in the Old Bailey on Donaldson and Argyle came into the judges common room and said to my sergeant: I've got a chap who's going down for 15 years. I checked through my court list but couldn't find Argyle's name on it for a trial. He was sharp enough to see this and said: I don't pick the jury until tomorrow.
I'm told that judges would inform the defence of the likely penalty before any trial started so as to encourage a guilty plea for modification of sentance. Argyle was of sterner stuff and used to inform the defence of the likely penalty whether or not the chap pleaded guilty.
Good job you didn't try "pissably" ... as I heard uttered at a meeting in Paris (the French translator gave up). The speaker had more than a passing resemblance to one J Prescott, late Vice<<<< (sorry) Deputy Prime Minister.
It wasn't Argyll, but I treasure the exchange between a barrister and a judge where the barrister explained something in great detail and the judge responded, "Sorry, but I am none the wiser." The barrister quipped, "But better informed My Lord." Didn't go down well!
Streaky
It wasn't Argyll, but I treasure the exchange between a barrister and a judge where the barrister explained something in great detail and the judge responded, "Sorry, but I am none the wiser." The barrister quipped, "But better informed My Lord." Didn't go down well!
Streaky
OT
But I did the ' I swear by almighty God...' bit and introduced myself in the best training school manner at Crown Court. I then stood confidently and professionally awaiting the first question....
The Judge peered at me over his half moon spectacles and said
'Very well done officer. Would you mind trying it again but this time holding the Bible?'
But I did the ' I swear by almighty God...' bit and introduced myself in the best training school manner at Crown Court. I then stood confidently and professionally awaiting the first question....
The Judge peered at me over his half moon spectacles and said
'Very well done officer. Would you mind trying it again but this time holding the Bible?'
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