Police Attack Speeder
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3105751.stm
Police have launched a public attack on a retired bank manager who criticised their speeding policy after he was convicted of breaking the 30mph limit.
In a highly unusual move, North Wales Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom called a news conference to hit back at 71-year-old Bill Shaw.
Mr Shaw had said his prosecution for doing 39mph in a 30mph zone was unfair, and ended his 50-year clean driving record.
But police produced video footage which they said showed Mr Shaw had not been speeding to overtake a tractor, as he had claimed.
Mr Shaw, of Llangollen, had pleaded guilty three weeks ago to speeding in Flintshire in the hope that magistrates would reject the case.
'Soft targets'
He claimed he had completed a safe manoeuvre and police were hitting "soft targets" like him.
Magistrates fined him £60, with £30 costs and three penalty points, and said they had "every sympathy" with him.
But magistrates' chairman Kathleen Cottle said their hands were tied and had to follow guidelines.
Mr Brunstrom has now accused Mr Shaw of giving a misleading account.
Video of the moment when he was caught in his BMW was shown at the news conference, and reporters were handed 31 photographs of the sequence.
Mr Brunstrom told BBC Radio Wales that Mr Shaw had touched a nerve. "I'm extremely disappointed by the irresponsible attitude of somebody in Mr Shaw's position," he said.
He said speeding was anti-social, dangerous and affected lives, and the spot where Mr Shaw was caught was where a young pedestrian had been killed.
"There are many people who believe that we are persecuting motorists," he told the Good Morning Wales programme.
'Misleading public'
"There are many people who have been caught who think we are acting unfairly and that's really why I'm so concerned about what Mr Shaw said because he is misleading the public.
"What he said is simply not accurate and I must ensure that the public have the true facts so that if they wish to continue to support our campaign they can do so."
[A police speed camera]
Police say video demonstrated that Mr Shaw was not overtaking
Mr Brunstrom accepted that police had to strike a balance between the need to save lives on the roads and to tackle anti-social behaviour on the streets.
But he had no regrets about the attack.
"I don't particularly want to personalise this," he said.
"It's a step I didn't take lightly, I've never done it before and I would seek to avoid doing it as general practice.
Personal crusade
But he said Mr Shaw's allegations were "grossly inappropriate and totally incorrect".
Mr Brunstrom said anti-speeding was "most certainly" a personal crusade for him. There were 13 people alive in north Wales alone who would otherwise have died last year.
"The danger of course of being engaged on a crusade is that you lose context and you become fixated on one objective and of course I must make sure that doesn't happen to me."
When Mr Shaw was told later about the criticism, he said the chief constable must be desperate to make such a fuss over such a trivial case.
He said Mr Brunstrom had placed his own interpretation on events.
Mr Shaw was upset that the chief constable suggested he was driving dangerously, when he said he obviously was not.
Police have launched a public attack on a retired bank manager who criticised their speeding policy after he was convicted of breaking the 30mph limit.
In a highly unusual move, North Wales Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom called a news conference to hit back at 71-year-old Bill Shaw.
Mr Shaw had said his prosecution for doing 39mph in a 30mph zone was unfair, and ended his 50-year clean driving record.
But police produced video footage which they said showed Mr Shaw had not been speeding to overtake a tractor, as he had claimed.
Mr Shaw, of Llangollen, had pleaded guilty three weeks ago to speeding in Flintshire in the hope that magistrates would reject the case.
'Soft targets'
He claimed he had completed a safe manoeuvre and police were hitting "soft targets" like him.
Magistrates fined him £60, with £30 costs and three penalty points, and said they had "every sympathy" with him.
But magistrates' chairman Kathleen Cottle said their hands were tied and had to follow guidelines.
Mr Brunstrom has now accused Mr Shaw of giving a misleading account.
Video of the moment when he was caught in his BMW was shown at the news conference, and reporters were handed 31 photographs of the sequence.
Mr Brunstrom told BBC Radio Wales that Mr Shaw had touched a nerve. "I'm extremely disappointed by the irresponsible attitude of somebody in Mr Shaw's position," he said.
He said speeding was anti-social, dangerous and affected lives, and the spot where Mr Shaw was caught was where a young pedestrian had been killed.
"There are many people who believe that we are persecuting motorists," he told the Good Morning Wales programme.
'Misleading public'
"There are many people who have been caught who think we are acting unfairly and that's really why I'm so concerned about what Mr Shaw said because he is misleading the public.
"What he said is simply not accurate and I must ensure that the public have the true facts so that if they wish to continue to support our campaign they can do so."
[A police speed camera]
Police say video demonstrated that Mr Shaw was not overtaking
Mr Brunstrom accepted that police had to strike a balance between the need to save lives on the roads and to tackle anti-social behaviour on the streets.
But he had no regrets about the attack.
"I don't particularly want to personalise this," he said.
"It's a step I didn't take lightly, I've never done it before and I would seek to avoid doing it as general practice.
Personal crusade
But he said Mr Shaw's allegations were "grossly inappropriate and totally incorrect".
Mr Brunstrom said anti-speeding was "most certainly" a personal crusade for him. There were 13 people alive in north Wales alone who would otherwise have died last year.
"The danger of course of being engaged on a crusade is that you lose context and you become fixated on one objective and of course I must make sure that doesn't happen to me."
When Mr Shaw was told later about the criticism, he said the chief constable must be desperate to make such a fuss over such a trivial case.
He said Mr Brunstrom had placed his own interpretation on events.
Mr Shaw was upset that the chief constable suggested he was driving dangerously, when he said he obviously was not.
the Wiz said:WTF!? If ever I've seen a more ludicrous, emotive, and plain offensive lie, I can't remember where it was!
Mr Brunstrom said anti-speeding was "most certainly" a personal crusade for him. There were 13 people alive in north Wales alone who would otherwise have died last year.
How the hell did they measure that little statistic then?
Doesn't help that the "Mr Shaw" appears to have been lying though does it??
If you are going to act all indignantly about driving for 50 years without a ticket, at least make sure your facts were straight for why you were doing so when you got caught...
Besides if the police had video footage that he was speeding it was likely that it wasn't a gatso, therefore i assume a policeman took a judgement on his speeding. If that was the case i have no problem with it - a gatso however would provoke a different reaction from me probably....
Also if he knew he was being filmed (presumably the police showed him the footage) why did he say he was overtaking if he wasn't??
The "anti-speed kills" movement needs honest sensible people that can put forward a balanced arguement, not some jumped up dude who was just pi55ed off he caught.
>> Edited by Buffalo on Tuesday 29th July 15:42
If you are going to act all indignantly about driving for 50 years without a ticket, at least make sure your facts were straight for why you were doing so when you got caught...
Besides if the police had video footage that he was speeding it was likely that it wasn't a gatso, therefore i assume a policeman took a judgement on his speeding. If that was the case i have no problem with it - a gatso however would provoke a different reaction from me probably....
Also if he knew he was being filmed (presumably the police showed him the footage) why did he say he was overtaking if he wasn't??
The "anti-speed kills" movement needs honest sensible people that can put forward a balanced arguement, not some jumped up dude who was just pi55ed off he caught.
>> Edited by Buffalo on Tuesday 29th July 15:42
the Wiz said:
SNIP
Can't speak for north wales but Gwent definately lie to build up a case.
The lying f***h [1] claimed I was speeding three times when clearly I was only speeding once. W*nkers.
[1] I try to avoid abusinve terms for the rozzers but Gwent didn't play fair by me so I won't by them.
"Speeding motorists should all be put up against a wall and shot...on the spot, the fecking ba***rds".... "but I'm not fixated about speed" Oh no, of course not!!!!!**999** said:
Toad, you'll be pleased to know that Brunstrom isn't even liked by his own Traffic dept, let alone the majority of Police Officers or the public.
**999**
;-)
You have this natural way off diffusing anger 999. Can you stop pulling me off my high horse!
I happened to got to Austria an Biz yesterday and I got to thinking.
I'd dearly love to send a dog turd in the post to the van guy. (Who kindly gave me his name and work address.)
If I do it from Austria am I commiting any offence in the uk?
Just wondering...
[1] Either that or I could copy the 'box' scene from the film "7". Wonder where he lives... [2]
[2] Although getting his wife's head through customs might be problematic...
the Wiz said:
Mr Brunstrom said anti-speeding was "most certainly" a personal crusade for him. There were 13 people alive in north Wales alone who would otherwise have died last year.
So Jesus has finally returned.. in the form of Burnstorm.... a copper!!
Now just to make sure, will he go and walk on water please... and make it VERY DEEP! Tw4t!
Buffalo - don't assume that just beacuse Brunstrom trtted out some apparent 'evidence' that Shaw was driving at 39 when he was not alongside the trcator that Shaw was a liar.
Brunstroms creation Arrive Alive themseves are accomplished professional liars. They lie and distort the truth over statistics, cost of hospital treatment lives saved, reasons for accidents, scameras only at blackspots, vans being supposedly high vis, reducing acciodents through their action, so why should this be any different ?
I suppose Shaw has a real case for complaint against Brunstrom in that the hearing that has yet to take place over Shaw's complaint has clearly been prejudiced by this mans action. Morally if not legally Brunstrom is guilty of abuse of office and attempting to pervert the couse of justice.
999 - I have heard that he and his 2 1/c Brereton are not well liked or respected by his own officers.
He seems completely obsessed with his own image much in the vein of modern politicians on both sides. And oblivious to what his own staff and his customers i.e. think. Oh that we could swop him for Todd of G Manchester!!!!!!
The public here even less so
Brunstroms creation Arrive Alive themseves are accomplished professional liars. They lie and distort the truth over statistics, cost of hospital treatment lives saved, reasons for accidents, scameras only at blackspots, vans being supposedly high vis, reducing acciodents through their action, so why should this be any different ?
I suppose Shaw has a real case for complaint against Brunstrom in that the hearing that has yet to take place over Shaw's complaint has clearly been prejudiced by this mans action. Morally if not legally Brunstrom is guilty of abuse of office and attempting to pervert the couse of justice.
999 - I have heard that he and his 2 1/c Brereton are not well liked or respected by his own officers.
He seems completely obsessed with his own image much in the vein of modern politicians on both sides. And oblivious to what his own staff and his customers i.e. think. Oh that we could swop him for Todd of G Manchester!!!!!!
The public here even less so
Apache said:
the man's clearly on a power trip
A question and answer article with Brunstrom taken from N. Wales Police's website.
Q. What do you like most about your role?
A.The ability to make a difference personally and the power, of course.
www.north-wales.police.uk/about_us/stories/top_team01.asp
Richard C said:
Buffalo - don't assume that just beacuse Brunstrom trtted out some apparent 'evidence' that Shaw was driving at 39 when he was not alongside the trcator that Shaw was a liar.
Brunstroms creation Arrive Alive themseves are accomplished professional liars. They lie and distort the truth over statistics, cost of hospital treatment lives saved, reasons for accidents, scameras only at blackspots, vans being supposedly high vis, reducing acciodents through their action, so why should this be any different ?
I suppose Shaw has a real case for complaint against Brunstrom in that the hearing that has yet to take place over Shaw's complaint has clearly been prejudiced by this mans action. Morally if not legally Brunstrom is guilty of abuse of office and attempting to pervert the couse of justice.
999 - I have heard that he and his 2 1/c Brereton are not well liked or respected by his own officers.
He seems completely obsessed with his own image much in the vein of modern politicians on both sides. And oblivious to what his own staff and his customers i.e. think. Oh that we could swop him for Todd of G Manchester!!!!!!
The public here even less so
I'm not suggesting Brunstrom is any better- but he can provide evidence that shows Mr Shaw speeding when not alongside the tractor - whether he overtook it or not, is irrelevant.
I don't like the tactics of Brunstrom at all, but i don't think that Mr Shaw is necessarily the guy i need to promote the safe use of speed.
Just because he has driven for 50years without a ticket only indicates that he's not been caught yet. Not that he is a law abiding citizen......
>> Edited by Buffalo on Thursday 31st July 11:48
just what speed was the "tractor" doing?The story was on HTV.
www.htvwales.com/news/
Follow the obvious link and there is a vid to look at. Not very good in the window size but on the telly showed a car doing 35-39 (speeding up?) and no tractor during the camera capture. As for RB, look around the N Wales police site at the various info there.
Just what I saw.
www.htvwales.com/news/
Follow the obvious link and there is a vid to look at. Not very good in the window size but on the telly showed a car doing 35-39 (speeding up?) and no tractor during the camera capture. As for RB, look around the N Wales police site at the various info there.
Just what I saw.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff