woman who stops traffic on c4

[bryan35]

just watching this. Understand the sentiments but makes me really cringe when they're indoctrinating kids with carbon this, global warning that. Also clear that the busy roads shots were timed to coincide with traffic bursts so looks much busier than actually is. That said, lots of unnecessary school run traffic.

[henrycrun]

I hope they can keep it up. It is astonishing how lazy the UK has become.

[mark69sheer]

I really laugh my socks off when they start to whine on about the school run mums.

I lived in a village with a village school.

13 years I lived there and guess what.. when my son was three they shut the school...
So then we had to drive our kids to the nearest town every day and back again..

So we decided to move house so our kids would be on the school bus route..

after a year they stopped the school bus to save money...

so yet again we were forced by the 4 x 4 school run hating local government to GET BACK in our cars yet again to take our kids to school...

Yes some parents do take the proverbial... but then you can't have it both ways..

You can't say the big 4 x 4's are spoiling the planet with one breath and then admit they only travel half a mile a day with the other..

and many parents are dropping kids off on the way to work.

[supermono]

It's a shame our welfare state allows these people to buy food for themselves without having to work. If that dizzy bint had a job she'd a)be out of everyone's way without the time for mischeif making and b)understand why people in the real world drive cars.

Maybe we should do a documentary where some eco-nutter wastrel has to work for a living.

Then they'll discover as have the rest of the working population that there's no magic bus to get them there, no job within cycling distance of their home and nothing but mayhem and delay on the roads caused by them and their lazy arsed brethren and their anti-car, anti-prosperity agendas....

SM

[will_]

supermono said:

It's a shame our welfare state allows these people to buy food for themselves without having to work. If that dizzy bint had a job she'd a)be out of everyone's way without the time for mischeif making and b)understand why people in the real world drive cars.

Maybe we should do a documentary where some eco-nutter wastrel has to work for a living.

Then they'll discover as have the rest of the working population that there's no magic bus to get them there, no job within cycling distance of their home and nothing but mayhem and delay on the roads caused by them and their lazy arsed brethren and their anti-car, anti-prosperity agendas....

SM

Genuine question - did you watch it? I did, as did a few others on PH, and in general the points she made were fair, the suggestions she made were taken up and the results were clear (even allowing for some generous before/after editing).

To deal with your criticisms:
She is a 'problem solver' for government and industry, and has worked for large corporations. She therefore earns and pays tax and isn't a dole scrounger. What was discovered is that many people 'in the real world' drive cars because they are ignorant, or lacking in information, or just lazy. Once it was shown that those driving half a mile to school would be there quicker by walking, they abandoned their cars, and so it proved. Same with those driving to lunch. She specifically said that she is not anti-car, she understands that many journeys are necessary but many more are not, and it is the unnecessary ones which need to be discouraged. She hardly mentioned the environment, it was the congestion that she was aiming to tackle. It was all done by encouraging people to try alternatives, thereby not taxing or forcing people out of their cars, leaving those who need to drive free to do so. If more people took it upon themselves to try to limit car use at peak times, there may be no need for punitive road charges or tax. Seems to make sense to me?

I watched it waiting for my piss to simmer, but ended up agreeing with her much of the time.

[mark69sheer]

I agreed on the point where people were making short journeys for no reason.

I actually can be seen on a microscooter at times.

Typically when I have left my car in Town on a Saturday night and had a drink.

I will then walk or get a taxi home and the next day I will scoot into town on a microscooter a 20 minute walk then takes only 7 minutes.

I actually believe microscooters are a great missed environmental opportunity.

They fold up and can be hidden nicely at work. They fit in your car boot easily.

I actually thought they would be the ideal transport of choice for postmen.

Sadly they were marketed as a kids toy instead of a credible alternative to walking.

Every day three kids go past me to school on microscooters... their mother walking is allways playing catch up or making them wait for her..
If she got on a scooter then their journey would be quicker and more reliable.


The only problem is we have to get over the social barrier of looking a tt on one...

but I don't care..

Edited by mark69sheer on Wednesday 27th February 09:40

[blueyes]

scooters-fat birds

you'd ride one but you wouldn't want your mates to find out.

[Vesuvius 996]

mark69sheer said:

I actually can be seen on a microscooter at times.

Typically when I have left my car in Town on a Saturday night and had a drink.

I actually believe microscooters are a great missed environmental opportunity.

I'll be sure to push you off it when I see you

[bryan35]

one thing almost had me simmering.

The presentation that she did. She showed some powerpoint style computer annimation of roads with cars, then another showing 10 years ahead, then another showing what happens if you listen to her, and on the strength of that they all agreed in the meeting.

So, 1 persons puts something forwards, which could basically be anything at all, and decisions are made based solely on that!.

No mention of source of reference, where the data originated, nothing. You could just have easilly shown a computer game to them.

Quite funny too the bit with the crossing, that the council claimed existed, but actually didn't.
'well it's on our drawings!' but noone had actually been to see for themselves.

[supermono]

[quote=will_]Genuine question - did you watch it?[quote]
Blush. Not really. It was on but I turned it off without giving her a fair crack of the whip. Thanks for putting me right. Obviously I'm talking about the usual suspects.

I will attempt to obtain a copy to watch without prejudice.

SM

[will_]

Were this a 'usual suspects' type of programme I would have agreed with you 100%.

Edited by will_ on Wednesday 27th February 10:48

[Mg6b]

I live 7 miles from my place of work I have been regularly cycling that journey for the last 2 years to the point I have now covered over 2000 miles on my bike.

The journey on my bike takes me no longer than 24 minutes at the worst if I am unlucky with the many traffic lights I have to pass being red.

Yesterday, I was unfortunate enough to have to use the car at peak time. I left work at 17.30 and it took me 45 minutes to get home, double the time it takes on the bike and I did not get my daily exercise either!

I cycle because I enjoy it, it keeps me fit, I am saving money because I am not using fuel and I am concerned about the environment.

I haven't watched the programme yet but have recorded it. Marlow is only a few miles form where I live so I know the specific problems it has. I will be interested to see what the prognosis about congestion is.

[pdV6]

Mg6b said:

I live 7 miles from my place of work I have been regularly cycling that journey for the last 2 years to the point I have now covered over 2000 miles on my bike.

The journey on my bike takes me no longer than 24 minutes at the worst if I am unlucky with the many traffic lights I have to pass being red.

Yesterday, I was unfortunate enough to have to use the car at peak time. I left work at 17.30 and it took me 45 minutes to get home, double the time it takes on the bike and I did not get my daily exercise either!

I cycle because I enjoy it, it keeps me fit, I am saving money because I am not using fuel and I am concerned about the environment.

I haven't watched the programme yet but have recorded it. Marlow is only a few miles form where I live so I know the specific problems it has. I will be interested to see what the prognosis about congestion is.

I assume you still use the car a fair bit, then, as a 7 mile commute should see you doing over 3,000 miles a year on your bike.

I too mostly cycle to work (5 miles each way) and the advantages are:

• Consistent journey times
• Regular exercise
• Free "parking"
• Reduced petrol bill

However, there are a lot of disadvantages, too:

• Need to transport work clothes
• Extra time needed for showering & changing on top of the door-to-door time
• Less flexibility (e.g. need to pop out at lunchtime anywhere further than a few minutes' walk/cycle)
• Risk of ending up under a bus
• Car still needs taxing, servicing & insuring for the times when you do need it

[Mg6b]

pdV6 said:

I assume you still use the car a fair bit, then, as a 7 mile commute should see you doing over 3,000 miles a year on your bike.

I have to drive once a week to take in clean ironed shirts etc.
I also use the train as it is a 15 minute walk to the station at the home end and a 7 minute walk the other. I sometimes get a lift from a colleague on late shifts because I have been attacked 3 times by idiots in the early hours riding my bike home. One of whom I managed to get captured minutes after he had split my lip open and subsequently received 100 hours community service for his happy slap fun!

So I do use other methods, hence only approx 1000 miles per year on the bike.

pdv6 said:

I too mostly cycle to work (5 miles each way) and the advantages are:

• Consistent journey times
• Regular exercise
• Free "parking"
• Reduced petrol bill

However, there are a lot of disadvantages, too:

• Need to transport work clothes
• Extra time needed for showering & changing on top of the door-to-door time
• Less flexibility (e.g. need to pop out at lunchtime anywhere further than a few minutes' walk/cycle)
• Risk of ending up under a bus
• Car still needs taxing, servicing & insuring for the times when you do need it

I totally agree apart from the showering and changing part as I would be doing that anyway at home.

I try and limit the danger to me by making sure I have at least 2 sets of lights that work properly both front and back and highly visible reflective clothing. I am also very careful about the position and movement of other roads users, especially large vehicles and I don't get myself into any compromising positions around such vehicles.

That said, last year just before Christmas, a colleague cycling to work was hit by a car pulling out of a junction and he was badly injured resulting in amputation of the lower part of one of his legs from the knee down!

[andy_s]

bryan35 said:

one thing almost had me simmering.

The presentation that she did. She showed some powerpoint style computer annimation of roads with cars, then another showing 10 years ahead, then another showing what happens if you listen to her, and on the strength of that they all agreed in the meeting.

So, 1 persons puts something forwards, which could basically be anything at all, and decisions are made based solely on that!.

No mention of source of reference, where the data originated, nothing. You could just have easilly shown a computer game to them.

Quite funny too the bit with the crossing, that the council claimed existed, but actually didn't.
'well it's on our drawings!' but noone had actually been to see for themselves.

Ahhhh - that'll be the 'style over substance' epidemic sweeping across the country, originally profligated by the likes of 'Hello' and the ilk but now a tad more insidious as applied to decisions like this.

A pretty picture undercoats a thousand words.

[pdV6]

Mg6b said:

I totally agree apart from the showering and changing part as I would be doing that anyway at home.

I take your point, but its worth remembering that the total commute time (i.e. from leaving the house to being at your desk & working) has to include the shower & change routine. Here, that can add quite a bit as there's only a single shower for 2 office buildings, so hit the queue at the wrong time and you can be a while...

Mg6b said:

I try and limit the danger to me by making sure I have at least 2 sets of lights that work properly both front and back and highly visible reflective clothing. I am also very careful about the position and movement of other roads users, especially large vehicles and I don't get myself into any compromising positions around such vehicles.

That really ought to go without saying, but you do see a lot of muppets seemingly with a deathwish in traffic.

[DaveyCrockett]

Good programme with plenty of valid points i thought. Made interesting viewing.

I get to work on a fairly even mix of cycling, walking and driving and think anything done to make paople aware of the alternatives to driving everywhere can only be good.

[roryalsop]

I agree in so many ways with this programme, but disagree too. Quick outline:

Agree - driving kids to school unnecessarily annoys the hell out of me(I know many need to but about 80% of the vehicles I see driving kids to school in the morning are driven by mums who live near me. My kids take the walking bus to school - approx 1 mile - and even in the rain they don't melt, or die, or drown. I don't know why others don't do it! It actually makes our life easier as we spend less time getting them to school of a morning)

Disagree - where I live public transport is utterly pants. I can drive the 16 miles to work faster than the train. And there is no bus. I could cycle it, and in fact plan to do so during the summer months, but I would probably die if I tried it in the dark (the A71 is not bike friendly at all)

But as an individual - she was annoying, wasn't she?

[bryan35]

smug, more than annoying I found.

I'd go to work on public transport too except the yearly train pass is 2 grand, it's slow, dirty and unreliable, it goes when it wants and not when I want, you now have to pay to park at the nearest train station which is 12 miles away.

you could go on the bike to the station of course, but 12 miles??? when it's dark blowing and raining down country roads - think not.

It would also add an extra 3 hours to the day.

not exactly a workable alternative.

Using a car for a 1/4 mile journey though to drop the kids off then return home - ridiculous.

[CorsaScott]

mark69sheer said:

You can't say the big 4 x 4's are spoiling the planet with one breath and then admit they only travel half a mile a day with the other..

A few reasons why 4x4s in town are pointless/stu[id/dangerous:

- People buy them thinking that they get more practicality from them, when in-fact, a good estate has just as much room, better mpg, better handling and if easier to get large objects in and out of because they aren't so high
- In the main, the people who drive these things can't drive properly, can't control and judge the huge bulk of their car and drive with no respect for other road users (I don't want to tar everyone with the same brush, as i'm sure there are plenty of people out there who can control the car properly, I'm going from my experience having had a woman drive up the side of my car reversing out a space, leaving a huge crease down the side and ruining the paintwork, because she was an idiot who couldn't even reverse out of a parking bay)
- On school runs, being higher up means you can't see small children who are behind your car. So the very reason you bought the car, the school run, is in fact when the 4x4 is at it's most dangerous.
- People seem to think "I drive a big 4x4, therefore in a crash everyone in the car will be safe" WRONG! a lot of 4x4s have terrible safety records (Nissan Navara anyone?)
- 4x4s are also much more dangerous for pedestrians who get run-over (Yes i know, i agree if you can't cross the road properly how do you dress yourself in the morning, but the point still stands) because your bumper is at chest/shoulder or even head height, so basically it is guaranteed death for a pedestrian, where as a normal car, the bumper is at around thigh level, thus at least giving them a chance.

All these points were taken from a TV show on channel 4 about 6 months ago, all about tempting people out of 4x4s. It took 3 people from inner cities, who own 4x4s for nipping around town. They were made to do a mock driving test in their 4x4. All 3 failed miserably. They then took it to a school, and they were able to hide 14!! 5 year olds behind their 4x4s before the drivers could spot any of them in their mirrors.

Imo, if you drive around in an X5, Cayenne etc. all it shows is you have more money than sense.

Sorry if it sounds a bit of a rant, but I hate when people try and defend the use of a 4x4 in town, when they acctually have no plus point compared to any other car. This was also not aimed at anyone in particular, so I hope no one takes offence to this post, I'm just expressing how I feel about these things.