Making a property safe after a burglary...
Discussion
Some advice from PH legal types would be appeciated...
A tenant of mine was burgled recently, we have a good relationship and I agreed to pick up the cost of repair to the property and claim on my insurance (not contents)...basically just one uPVC unit.
I did so and got a new uPVC unit fitted a few days later. However, almost 10 weeks after the event, I receive a bill from the emergency glazing co called out by Thames Valley Police, for boarding up the broken window.
Some facts:
1) Neither I, nor the tenant authorised the work.
2) The Police contacted the tenant by phone whilst at the property (he wasn't there). He wasn't asked about the repair, and was advised by the PC dealing that the landlord had been contacted and not to worry.
3) I hadn't been contacted (and to this day, have had no contact with neither police nor glazier other than the bill, sent to my tenant)
4) The bill for the emergency call out (midday, admittedly on a Bank Holiday) is almost 3 times the cost of the proper repair (i.e. fitted new uPVC unit) another company performed several days later.
Obviously when I ask tomorrow, the glazier will state they were instructed by the Police. I'm not too concerned about having to pay something, but IMHO they are overcharging for a service I did not ask for.
Do I have any chance of any result other than having my pants round my ankles?
A tenant of mine was burgled recently, we have a good relationship and I agreed to pick up the cost of repair to the property and claim on my insurance (not contents)...basically just one uPVC unit.
I did so and got a new uPVC unit fitted a few days later. However, almost 10 weeks after the event, I receive a bill from the emergency glazing co called out by Thames Valley Police, for boarding up the broken window.
Some facts:
1) Neither I, nor the tenant authorised the work.
2) The Police contacted the tenant by phone whilst at the property (he wasn't there). He wasn't asked about the repair, and was advised by the PC dealing that the landlord had been contacted and not to worry.
3) I hadn't been contacted (and to this day, have had no contact with neither police nor glazier other than the bill, sent to my tenant)
4) The bill for the emergency call out (midday, admittedly on a Bank Holiday) is almost 3 times the cost of the proper repair (i.e. fitted new uPVC unit) another company performed several days later.
Obviously when I ask tomorrow, the glazier will state they were instructed by the Police. I'm not too concerned about having to pay something, but IMHO they are overcharging for a service I did not ask for.
Do I have any chance of any result other than having my pants round my ankles?
trousers round your ankles I'm afraid..
i do sometimes wonder about the relationships some contractors have with the police... recovery vehicles etc..
Its nice woek if you can get it...
As for your window.. were they actually burgled.. or could I suggest cynically that the glazing company were drumming up their own business with the aid of a few bricks...
i do sometimes wonder about the relationships some contractors have with the police... recovery vehicles etc..
Its nice woek if you can get it...
As for your window.. were they actually burgled.. or could I suggest cynically that the glazing company were drumming up their own business with the aid of a few bricks...
UpTheIron said:
Some advice from PH legal types would be appeciated...
A tenant of mine was burgled recently, we have a good relationship and I agreed to pick up the cost of repair to the property and claim on my insurance (not contents)...basically just one uPVC unit.
I did so and got a new uPVC unit fitted a few days later. However, almost 10 weeks after the event, I receive a bill from the emergency glazing co called out by Thames Valley Police, for boarding up the broken window.
Some facts:
1) Neither I, nor the tenant authorised the work.
2) The Police contacted the tenant by phone whilst at the property (he wasn't there). He wasn't asked about the repair, and was advised by the PC dealing that the landlord had been contacted and not to worry.
3) I hadn't been contacted (and to this day, have had no contact with neither police nor glazier other than the bill, sent to my tenant)
4) The bill for the emergency call out (midday, admittedly on a Bank Holiday) is almost 3 times the cost of the proper repair (i.e. fitted new uPVC unit) another company performed several days later.
Obviously when I ask tomorrow, the glazier will state they were instructed by the Police. I'm not too concerned about having to pay something, but IMHO they are overcharging for a service I did not ask for.
Do I have any chance of any result other than having my pants round my ankles?
Letter to the police asking for clarification about what happened on the night. They can then look into it and if they should not have called out the company they will be liable. However they cannot leave a property vulnerable which is often why boarding up is arranged although I will always try all possible contact numbers first as they do charge rather a lot for some plywood.A tenant of mine was burgled recently, we have a good relationship and I agreed to pick up the cost of repair to the property and claim on my insurance (not contents)...basically just one uPVC unit.
I did so and got a new uPVC unit fitted a few days later. However, almost 10 weeks after the event, I receive a bill from the emergency glazing co called out by Thames Valley Police, for boarding up the broken window.
Some facts:
1) Neither I, nor the tenant authorised the work.
2) The Police contacted the tenant by phone whilst at the property (he wasn't there). He wasn't asked about the repair, and was advised by the PC dealing that the landlord had been contacted and not to worry.
3) I hadn't been contacted (and to this day, have had no contact with neither police nor glazier other than the bill, sent to my tenant)
4) The bill for the emergency call out (midday, admittedly on a Bank Holiday) is almost 3 times the cost of the proper repair (i.e. fitted new uPVC unit) another company performed several days later.
Obviously when I ask tomorrow, the glazier will state they were instructed by the Police. I'm not too concerned about having to pay something, but IMHO they are overcharging for a service I did not ask for.
Do I have any chance of any result other than having my pants round my ankles?
UpTheIron said:
Some advice from PH legal types would be appeciated...
A tenant of mine was burgled recently, we have a good relationship and I agreed to pick up the cost of repair to the property and claim on my insurance (not contents)...basically just one uPVC unit.
I did so and got a new uPVC unit fitted a few days later. However, almost 10 weeks after the event, I receive a bill from the emergency glazing co called out by Thames Valley Police, for boarding up the broken window.
Some facts:
1) Neither I, nor the tenant authorised the work.
2) The Police contacted the tenant by phone whilst at the property (he wasn't there). He wasn't asked about the repair, and was advised by the PC dealing that the landlord had been contacted and not to worry.
3) I hadn't been contacted (and to this day, have had no contact with neither police nor glazier other than the bill, sent to my tenant)
4) The bill for the emergency call out (midday, admittedly on a Bank Holiday) is almost 3 times the cost of the proper repair (i.e. fitted new uPVC unit) another company performed several days later.
Obviously when I ask tomorrow, the glazier will state they were instructed by the Police. I'm not too concerned about having to pay something, but IMHO they are overcharging for a service I did not ask for.
Do I have any chance of any result other than having my pants round my ankles?
Interesting, and doesnt surprise me. Their 'cost' to board up your house is based on the fact your insurance pays for it. When you are burgled, it does include the cost of 'making good' and in the meantime keeping your property secure.A tenant of mine was burgled recently, we have a good relationship and I agreed to pick up the cost of repair to the property and claim on my insurance (not contents)...basically just one uPVC unit.
I did so and got a new uPVC unit fitted a few days later. However, almost 10 weeks after the event, I receive a bill from the emergency glazing co called out by Thames Valley Police, for boarding up the broken window.
Some facts:
1) Neither I, nor the tenant authorised the work.
2) The Police contacted the tenant by phone whilst at the property (he wasn't there). He wasn't asked about the repair, and was advised by the PC dealing that the landlord had been contacted and not to worry.
3) I hadn't been contacted (and to this day, have had no contact with neither police nor glazier other than the bill, sent to my tenant)
4) The bill for the emergency call out (midday, admittedly on a Bank Holiday) is almost 3 times the cost of the proper repair (i.e. fitted new uPVC unit) another company performed several days later.
Obviously when I ask tomorrow, the glazier will state they were instructed by the Police. I'm not too concerned about having to pay something, but IMHO they are overcharging for a service I did not ask for.
Do I have any chance of any result other than having my pants round my ankles?
If your insurance doesnt or won't pay then the law of contract comes into play. You did not authorise the work - the glazing company would no doubt be more than keep to do it, as it is half an hours work for probably a few hundred quid. They could argue that they were under the instruction of the police, but it is still rather strange. Not saying this happened, but this would be highly profitable work if it only went to one company, for some reason...
In any case, the closest legal parallel I can see would be for example if you had your car in the garage and authorised it's repair without asking for a quote first. In that situation you would have to pay for the work completed - however the amount must be reasonable.
If you were to refuse to pay for some reason then they would send nasty letters, but there is nothing they can do apart from take you to court. In court they would have to justify the amount they have charged. If this is hundreds of pounds for half an hours work and some boards, then they are going to have a hard time doing that.
If the insurance will not pay for it, my way forward would be to offer them a fair amount, send it by cheque with a covering letter explaining the situation and that is your offer in full and final settlement. They can either take it, or take you do court.
They will take it. Out of interest, how much did they charge!?
mark69sheer said:
trousers round your ankles I'm afraid..
i do sometimes wonder about the relationships some contractors have with the police... recovery vehicles etc..
Its nice woek if you can get it...
As for your window.. were they actually burgled.. or could I suggest cynically that the glazing company were drumming up their own business with the aid of a few bricks...
All above board I'm afraid not like the good old days when you could get a back hander so hear from the recovery agents / carpenters even the funeral homes.i do sometimes wonder about the relationships some contractors have with the police... recovery vehicles etc..
Its nice woek if you can get it...
As for your window.. were they actually burgled.. or could I suggest cynically that the glazing company were drumming up their own business with the aid of a few bricks...
JustinP1 said:
Out of interest, how much did they charge!?
£306. Work carried out midday Boxing Day (so I accept it might be a little higher than normal). Board removed, new uPVC unit fitted (by different company) a few days later for just over £100.For £100 I get someone to come out, measure up and supply & fit a uPVC unit.
One visit less, and a lump of plywood instead of a uPVC unit costing £200 more is a bit much. I might even argue that a 24/7 emergency glazing firm wouldn't charge extra for a bank holiday call out...
Not a lot help, but think of the consiquences of not boarding up?
Big hole for all to get in and have a go?
Original theives often come back later to get more goods?
But once Police involved and boarded up even those SCUM think twice, as it has been noticed.
Sounds like your tennant was away, and could have come back days later to a wrecked property if left open??
Although £306 seems a lot, ask your maintnance chaps how much a wrecked property would have cost you.
By all means try and get it reduced, but be wary if you have a number of properties and they know you won't pay up next time you need help!!
Well worth putting the landlords phone number on the Police contacts computer for all your properties for future ref??
Steve
Big hole for all to get in and have a go?
Original theives often come back later to get more goods?
But once Police involved and boarded up even those SCUM think twice, as it has been noticed.
Sounds like your tennant was away, and could have come back days later to a wrecked property if left open??
Although £306 seems a lot, ask your maintnance chaps how much a wrecked property would have cost you.
By all means try and get it reduced, but be wary if you have a number of properties and they know you won't pay up next time you need help!!
Well worth putting the landlords phone number on the Police contacts computer for all your properties for future ref??
Steve
Sounds very excessive to me for a small piece of plywood, albeit bank holiday, unless the firm had to come twenty odd miles....
Personally, I would write a (polite) letter to the boss of the firm, outlining your concerns, and with a bit of luck he may say "oh! go on then give us £150"........
However, to be fair to him, he probably has to pay his men double time etc, etc......
Worth the cost of a stamp anyway............
Personally, I would write a (polite) letter to the boss of the firm, outlining your concerns, and with a bit of luck he may say "oh! go on then give us £150"........
However, to be fair to him, he probably has to pay his men double time etc, etc......
Worth the cost of a stamp anyway............
Shootingbiker said:
Sounds like your tennant was away, and could have come back days later to a wrecked property if left open??
Yes, my tenant was away, but the PC phoned my tenant whilst the PC was at the property, and when the tenant asked, he was specifically told there was no need to contact me (the landlord) as it was all in hand.If the PC had asked the tenant, or the next door neighbour then my number would have been provided, and I would have been able to save myself £306 by fixing the property myself. Or I would have been able to confirm the price and authorise the work.
There are two issues here: i) the arguably excessive price, ii) the lack of contact from the Police.
ETA: Some other valid points made though.
Edited by UpTheIron on Thursday 28th February 20:26
Wacky Racer said:
Sounds very excessive to me for a small piece of plywood, albeit bank holiday, unless the firm had to come twenty odd miles...
Oddly enough, it was an out-of-area firm (well, 12.5 miles away), despite there being plenty of 24/7 glaziers in the same town (Wycombe). Presumably they have the contract for the area.UpTheIron said:
Shootingbiker said:
Sounds like your tennant was away, and could have come back days later to a wrecked property if left open??
Yes, my tenant was away, but the PC phoned my tenant whilst the PC was at the property, and when the tenant asked, he was specifically told there was no need to contact me (the landlord) as it was all in hand.If the PC had asked the tenant, or the next door neighbour then my number would have been provided, and I would have been able to save myself £306 by fixing the property myself. Or I would have been able to confirm the price and authorise the work.
There are two issues here: i) the arguably excessive price, ii) the lack of contact from the Police.
ETA: Some other valid points made though.
Edited by UpTheIron on Thursday 28th February 20:26
Hard enough to be a decent landlord, without having tennents who can't think for themselves?
Steve
Shootingbiker said:
Would be well worth letting your tennents know that any trouble, any time they should call you in future?
Hard enough to be a decent landlord, without having tennents who can't think for themselves?
Steve
To be fair, their are excellent tenants, and he did call me later in the day...too late by that point. When he was initially called he was told there was no need, and that I had already been contacted (even though I hadn't!)Hard enough to be a decent landlord, without having tennents who can't think for themselves?
Steve
UpTheIron said:
Wacky Racer said:
Sounds very excessive to me for a small piece of plywood, albeit bank holiday, unless the firm had to come twenty odd miles...
Oddly enough, it was an out-of-area firm (well, 12.5 miles away), despite there being plenty of 24/7 glaziers in the same town (Wycombe). Presumably they have the contract for the area.Indeed, why choose someone with a 25 mile round trip...
I think if you offered the company the same amount that it cost to actually fit another window, then surely they cannot argue that their costs are fair - especially three times as much.
If they rejected that, I would ask them to sue me for the rest. I am pretty sure that on the face of it they could not argue against the fact that the charge is excessive.
JustinP1 said:
If your insurance doesnt or won't pay then the law of contract comes into play.
Are you sure? I don't know that you're wrong, but it seems unlikely to me that the Police would be instructing such work unless they were on a sound legal footing.The parallel I would draw is where you get a bill from a Heath Authority if someone runs out in front of you, gets run over, and an ambulance is called. Doesn't matter that it's not the drivers fault, he still has to pay.
The OP could always refuse to pay saying he hadn't authorised the work and refer the glazing company back to the Police. Be interesting to see what would happen, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be anything nice.
Well, unless the police can show a statutory authority to engage a contractor and you are liable for the fees (no matter how excessive, unreasonable etc..) then you don't have a contract with the supplier and thus wouldn't be liable.. Would be interesting to see if any officer has a legal basis upon which this imposition can be made...
Jasandjules said:
Well, unless the police can show a statutory authority to engage a contractor and you are liable for the fees (no matter how excessive, unreasonable etc..) then you don't have a contract with the supplier and thus wouldn't be liable.. Would be interesting to see if any officer has a legal basis upon which this imposition can be made...
its a balancing act between our legal obligation to protect property and walking away doing nothing. In practice if we show that we took reasonable steps to arrange that the owner secured property but we could get no name etc then not liable. If we did obtain details but went ahead without permission when we could have asked then we tend to pay out. We are not allowed to walk away from a property thats insecure unless the owner says we can or we secure it otherwise we become liable.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
its a balancing act between our legal obligation to protect property and walking away doing nothing. In practice if we show that we took reasonable steps to arrange that the owner secured property but we could get no name etc then not liable. If we did obtain details but went ahead without permission when we could have asked then we tend to pay out.
We are not allowed to walk away from a property thats insecure unless the owner says we can or we secure it otherwise we become liable.
I can appreciate that, but here the OP says he was not asked?We are not allowed to walk away from a property thats insecure unless the owner says we can or we secure it otherwise we become liable.
And also, I can appreciate that you must secure it, BUT that doesn't mean the house owner is obligated to pay for the repairs you instigate, at least not to my mind, unless there is something in statute, as he won't have a contract with the person completing the repairs. That's what I am wondering, bit of a can of worms perhaps.
Jasandjules said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
its a balancing act between our legal obligation to protect property and walking away doing nothing. In practice if we show that we took reasonable steps to arrange that the owner secured property but we could get no name etc then not liable. If we did obtain details but went ahead without permission when we could have asked then we tend to pay out.
We are not allowed to walk away from a property thats insecure unless the owner says we can or we secure it otherwise we become liable.
I can appreciate that, but here the OP says he was not asked?We are not allowed to walk away from a property thats insecure unless the owner says we can or we secure it otherwise we become liable.
And also, I can appreciate that you must secure it, BUT that doesn't mean the house owner is obligated to pay for the repairs you instigate, at least not to my mind, unless there is something in statute, as he won't have a contract with the person completing the repairs. That's what I am wondering, bit of a can of worms perhaps.
You could challenge it setting a case precedent but then the police would leave all insecurities as they find them and all stolen cars in their location otherwise the cost of recovery and fixing would be huge.
I think a civil case would look at each set of circumstances an may well create an implied contract in that any reasonable person would expect efforts to be made to secure their stolen item or insecure property.
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