Insufficient Evidence - untrained bus driver...a death
Discussion
This story appeared in local Manchester press.
)
texting or not which is pretty strong for me to post given my views on using a mobile phone whilst
driving..
Now he hit a crane. Sun visor mentioned next causing a SMIDSY or not.. he should have seen a ruddy big crane
contrasting with the texting driver case.. what about the bollard "blocking view" and the fact she turned her head the wrong way to the right? Methinks that woman could appeal here..
My condolences to the family should they hit on this site.
article in Salford regional advertiser said:
27 year old died after his cherry picker was hit by a bus. He was putting up neon signs on a building when he was knocked out the basket of the crane overhanging the road and trapped beneath the bus in Rusholme area of Manchester
The bus driver - Krzystof O was charged with causing death by dangerous driving. His trial was to start this week.
But
Manchester Crown Court has ruled that he be found NOT GUILTY after the CPS decided not to proceed with the case.
(Ah.. his mistake. He was not a chap on a bicycle who ignored a basic traffic rule
)
Victim Martin's father, ironically. had worked most of his life in public transport said
"We are not being vindictive. But we feel justice is being denied to Martin. There is a huge public interest in the case with regard to public transport safety".
In an "unusual move" ... the judge insturcted the Procecutor to respond to a number of issues raised by Martin's family These include the following allegations:
1. The bus driver had worked beyond the permitted number of hours when this accident occurred.
2. The bus driver had FAILED an EYE TEST!
3. The driver went through an Amber Traffic Light
4. The driver had not even been trained to drive a couble decker bus.
(All the above are pretty darned serious allegations - and even more in the public interest when this city is planning a congestion charge with the promise of more buses.... The bus driver - Krzystof O was charged with causing death by dangerous driving. His trial was to start this week.
But
Manchester Crown Court has ruled that he be found NOT GUILTY after the CPS decided not to proceed with the case. (Ah.. his mistake. He was not a chap on a bicycle who ignored a basic traffic rule
) Victim Martin's father, ironically. had worked most of his life in public transport said
"We are not being vindictive. But we feel justice is being denied to Martin. There is a huge public interest in the case with regard to public transport safety".
In an "unusual move" ... the judge insturcted the Procecutor to respond to a number of issues raised by Martin's family These include the following allegations:
1. The bus driver had worked beyond the permitted number of hours when this accident occurred.
2. The bus driver had FAILED an EYE TEST!
3. The driver went through an Amber Traffic Light
4. The driver had not even been trained to drive a couble decker bus.
)article in Salford Advertisor said:
The Prosecutor responded that
1. Bus driver had indeed driven beyond the permmitted number of hours and days without a rest break. But claimed that there was no evidence that had he returned fresh from a rest - this accident would not have happened.
2. An independendent witness did confirm the bus had travelled at "seome speed through the amber lights"
- so this could be right. However, "you do not have to stop at amber if you are going too fast to do so!"(Yep.. it does say this in the Advertiser paper of which I have a scan - but my sister included all the adverts on the cutting.. Wimmin)
3. The results of the eye test were "mixed"
4. The driver had trained to drive a bus in Poland and was thus aallowed to drive a double decker in the UK even thought this type of bus is an "unknown vehicle in Poland"
He said the case was dropped because there was insuficient evidence to obtain a conviction.
Eh? Well.. it was pretty careless to collide with a BIG crane. I'd say far more careless than the woman jailed yesterday for colliding with the red light jumping cyclist.1. Bus driver had indeed driven beyond the permmitted number of hours and days without a rest break. But claimed that there was no evidence that had he returned fresh from a rest - this accident would not have happened.
2. An independendent witness did confirm the bus had travelled at "seome speed through the amber lights"
- so this could be right. However, "you do not have to stop at amber if you are going too fast to do so!"
(Yep.. it does say this in the Advertiser paper of which I have a scan - but my sister included all the adverts on the cutting.. Wimmin)3. The results of the eye test were "mixed"
4. The driver had trained to drive a bus in Poland and was thus aallowed to drive a double decker in the UK even thought this type of bus is an "unknown vehicle in Poland"
He said the case was dropped because there was insuficient evidence to obtain a conviction.
texting or not which is pretty strong for me to post given my views on using a mobile phone whilst
driving..Now he hit a crane. Sun visor mentioned next causing a SMIDSY or not.. he should have seen a ruddy big crane
article in Salford Advertiser said:
The Prosecutor said that [i]a sun visor in the cab blocked the view upwards
A small movement of the driver's head means the difference bewtween being possible to see the basket of wholly impossible. This is "expert advice from a Government Transport expert"[/i]
A small movement of the driver's head means the difference bewtween being possible to see the basket of wholly impossible. This is "expert advice from a Government Transport expert"[/i]
contrasting with the texting driver case.. what about the bollard "blocking view" and the fact she turned her head the wrong way to the right? Methinks that woman could appeal here..article in Salford Advertiser said:
Judge Goldstone said
"Consultation shopuld be given ensuring the apppopriate regulations are installed into the law to ensure only those trained to drive double decker buses drive double decker buses. It is not rocket science. I am acutely conscious that the parents of Mr P have conducted themselves with a dignity which I cannot praise enough.
Somehow I think justice has failed. I would have thought at least a prosecution for careless given the crane would have been very visible from distance of approach in any case."Consultation shopuld be given ensuring the apppopriate regulations are installed into the law to ensure only those trained to drive double decker buses drive double decker buses. It is not rocket science. I am acutely conscious that the parents of Mr P have conducted themselves with a dignity which I cannot praise enough.
My condolences to the family should they hit on this site.
Edited by Mad Moggie2 on Saturday 1st March 09:43
Hmm, some things didn't feel quite right about this article, so I went to search for any other coverage of the accident and found this MEN article which seems to be referring to the same incident (although it suggests the cherry-picker operation was to replace windows rather than to put up a shop sign, I'm going to assume there haven't been two almost identical incidents in this part of Manchester...)
MEN said:
The UK North bus was travelling along Wilmslow Road in Rusholme when it is believed to have swerved to avoid something in the road and hit a lamppost.
It then collided with a cherry-picker crane at the side of the road and a man working in the crane replacing windows on a nearby building fell into the path of the vehicle.
Several other passers-by are believed to have been hurt by flying glass as nearby windows were smashed in the collision.
Police cordoned off a section of Wilmslow Road in Rusholme after the incident at around 8.10am.
Witnesses said the UK North travelling to Fallowfield had swerved to avoid someone in the road before hitting the lamppost.
So what actually happened? Was, as the latest article suggests, the basket overhanging the road (in which case I'd be questioning whoever authorised the work as to whether or not they'd bothered letting the bus company know there'd be a low-level obstruction along their route for part of the day...), or was the basket only hit because the bus swerved as stated by the witnesses in the original article? I'm not trying to deflect any blame away from the driver here, because in either case it still seems like they'd be majorly to blame, but it doesn't sound from either account as if they're solely to blame.It then collided with a cherry-picker crane at the side of the road and a man working in the crane replacing windows on a nearby building fell into the path of the vehicle.
Several other passers-by are believed to have been hurt by flying glass as nearby windows were smashed in the collision.
Police cordoned off a section of Wilmslow Road in Rusholme after the incident at around 8.10am.
Witnesses said the UK North travelling to Fallowfield had swerved to avoid someone in the road before hitting the lamppost.
I'm a rather worried about the standard of bus driving these days as well. Over the last couple of years in London it's got markedly worse.
A friend of mine was nearly run over by a bus running the red light at a pedestrian crossing last month, and I've now been on 2 Central London buses where I've had to give the driver directions 'cause they've got totally and utterly lost
And London's cyclists are worried about the bikers in the bus lanes; jeez, it's the buses I'd be worried about!
A friend of mine was nearly run over by a bus running the red light at a pedestrian crossing last month, and I've now been on 2 Central London buses where I've had to give the driver directions 'cause they've got totally and utterly lost
And London's cyclists are worried about the bikers in the bus lanes; jeez, it's the buses I'd be worried about!
few comments from the holder of a PSV licence
how the heck did he manage to go over his hours? work schedules & overtime are checked by supervisors to ensure this doesnt happen.
double deck & single deck buses are the same licence so 'not trained to drive deckers' is crap if hes got PSV.
upwards view is always awful on any decker i ever drove, they have lower 'ceilings' to get two decks in about 2-3ft more than a single deck.
how the heck did he manage to go over his hours? work schedules & overtime are checked by supervisors to ensure this doesnt happen.
double deck & single deck buses are the same licence so 'not trained to drive deckers' is crap if hes got PSV.
upwards view is always awful on any decker i ever drove, they have lower 'ceilings' to get two decks in about 2-3ft more than a single deck.
liner33 said:
Horrendous accident , some relatives of mine witnessed it.
Of course it has nothing to do with the bus companies employing immigrant workers to save money
It may or may not have anything to do with drivers' nationalities - more fundamentally, you forgot the mention the "bus wars" in that part of Manchester, and (as a bus company) that it must be very tempting to employ anybody who fronts up with a valid PSV licence in order to be able to continue to participate in the competition between bus companies...Of course it has nothing to do with the bus companies employing immigrant workers to save money
If a driver is distracted due to the pressures of these "bus wars" to the extent that accidents are occuring then there is clearly an issue - more of an issue than employing immigrant drivers, I would suggest. Non-immigrant bus drivers manage to cause horrendous accidents as well
.Dwight VanDriver said:
Isn't Strangeways a tad overcrowded at the momement Moggie?
dvd
I hear GMP have been busy locking up rogue drivers dvd
Mind you they did have a little experiment when they got some cash per the MEN..
Amazing what just a beat bobby achieved
Unfortunately.. Strangeways and Styal alike are reported bursting to the seams.. 
Another reason that this government will fail to get people onto public transport.
Bus drivers are getting worse by the day.
Crap driving by the bus driver on a bus I used recently saw passengers on the floor and my suitcases sliding the length of the alleyway.
Local buses also tailgate drivers
Local old aged pensioner killed when bus set off before she was sat...
Children on school runs not checked for seatbelt use by drivers glued to their seats..
Public transport is getting worse..
trains crashing and derailing . . etc etc
ironically the people who should be using public transport . . ie those on benefits go everywhere by sodding taxi at our expense.
Bus drivers are getting worse by the day.
Crap driving by the bus driver on a bus I used recently saw passengers on the floor and my suitcases sliding the length of the alleyway.
Local buses also tailgate drivers
Local old aged pensioner killed when bus set off before she was sat...
Children on school runs not checked for seatbelt use by drivers glued to their seats..
Public transport is getting worse..
trains crashing and derailing . . etc etc
ironically the people who should be using public transport . . ie those on benefits go everywhere by sodding taxi at our expense.
Mandat said:
Is the fact that the driver was not British a relevant factor in this incident?
having worked as a bus driver & seeing the standard of imported drivers - yes.ETA: it must have been about 1 in 15 or 1 in 20 that the company i worked for considered where so bad they sent them out with driving instructors before letting them loose. these were drivers with licences the UK reckonise & allow to work over here with no checks to ability.
Edited by Hooli on Sunday 2nd March 16:33
Mandat said:
Is the fact that the driver was not British a relevant factor in this incident?
I wouldn't have a problem with a driver from any country driving a bus if they are correctly trained and tested.I have had to use a bus on several occasions lately and every time the driver has been Eastern European the driving standards have been appalling.
It is a more overall concern that we are allowing people from other countries to drive on our roads automatically that I have.
What are the test requirements in Poland, Albania etc?
mark69sheer said:
Children on school runs not checked for seatbelt use by drivers glued to their seats..
This highlights something i was about to say:How come its illegal for some one to touch a phone whilst driving, but perfectly ok for someone to drive AND be responsible for a bus load of passengers at the same time?
Speaking as a currently employed PSV driver, and having had the misfortune to work with 'foreign' drivers, they are worse drivers, they care little for the passengers and they are only here for the money. This isn't my right-wing feelings coming through, it's the truth.
Unfortunately as they are easier to hire and fire, bus companies will keep using them, rather than employ British people who cost more, are harder to fire, and understand more when they are being screwed over.
Unfortunately as they are easier to hire and fire, bus companies will keep using them, rather than employ British people who cost more, are harder to fire, and understand more when they are being screwed over.
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