When is an Ambulance not an Ambulance ?

[tonyrec]

In the early hours of the morning i saw a, what i can only describe as a 'Car derived Van' doing a fair old speed South on the M1 Motorway towards London.
It had a stripe, blue lights (which were working) and the whole thing just looked odd.

We stopped it and found the following problems.

1)The vehicle was not registered to a Hospital trust etc etc but to a private address.

2)The driver had not done any form of driver training, ie Blue light training etc and in fact up until last month was a Sainsburys lorry driver.

3)He did not seem to know what he was doing but when stopped ,said that he was an Ambulance driver on official business and in fact 'got a bit mouthy'.

Episodes like this make me worry a bit. Here we have an untrained person, driving a vehicle purporting to be an Ambulance, and in addition to this he thinks that he has the same rights as anyone else in the Emergency services!!

It was carrying blood for a London Hospital and had driven from 'Up North'.

Now i can just see the headlines....."Ambulance driver gets reported for speeding whilst on duty and driving an Ambulance for Emergency purposes".

Lets be fair here, if it had of been a Fully marked legitamite Ambulance then it would not have been stopped at all- would it?

Over the past few years ive escorted a large number of Ambulances on "Life and death runs" that have come down the M1 from the Northern Home Counties to the likes of Great Ormond Street Hospital, some of which have saved lives and some of which whereby the Ambulance has just turned off its Blue Lamps and slowed down, an indication that the person we were transporting has sadly died.
When i think about these episodes, i was saddened that this poor chap last night was trying to use the exemptions that these guys have.

This is sadly, not an isolated case and is happening on a regular basis, and its up to us to stop these untrained people basically taking the p*ss and endangering the lives that they are supposed to be protecting.

As you read this please dont think that all people who drive these vehicles drive the same way because they dont...there are some nice responsible caring poeple out there doing a very worthwhile job.

[Mark.S]

Had to get out of the car for a chat with one of this sort of 'Ambulance' driver a few months ago. He couldn't understand why I was annoyed by him driving 6inches from the rear of my car!

[deltaf]

Wonder what qualifications would be desirable to do this for a job? I quite fancy the idea of having a go at doing this delivery service thing......
What kind of course and where available for this "blue light" training Tonyrec???
It might even convert me into a useful member of society........
Oh, and could i register the GT4 as an ambulance ??????/

[tonyrec]

deltaf said:

Wonder what qualifications would be desirable to do this for a job? I quite fancy the idea of having a go at doing this delivery service thing...... What kind of course and where available for this "blue light" training Tonyrec??? It might even convert me into a useful member of society........ Oh, and could i register the GT4 as an ambulance ??????/

Obviously some sort of training is better than none.

There are companies out there that do the necessary training and the legit employers know where to go.

This poor chap was nothing more than a courier, sadly, a wannabe Ambulance driver.
On the face of it he was trying to do his job and underneath his tough exterior he admitted that he had been misinformed by his employer and himself admitted that he thought that he was a pukka driver.

I felt sorry for him and its now the company that i/we are investigating.

[Mr E]

deltaf said:

Oh, and could i register the GT4 as an ambulance ??????/

That would be a quick ambulance. Would look good in white with some descrete blue strobes...

[PetrolTed]

I presume he got nicked for use of blue lights etc?

[zetec]

I have noticed more and more private ambulance services here in Essex. These people are like the st John ambulance, they turn up at fetes etc. but use fully marked ambulances with (? disabled) blue lights. I would hope that the people manning these vehicles were fully trained as I am not sure if there is any legislation regarding private ambulances.

[TheExcession]

Hi Tony,


You guys really get to see it all... huh


From your post I'd guess that the guy was just chancing it to make time - transporting blood is a valued service but I can't see that it was a life and death matter - I've chatted to taxi drivers and couriers who have carried human organs for transplant operations - they felt no need to break any speed limits.

The fact that he got a bit mouthy says it all - lets face it if he'd just turned to you and said 'hey this is a really badtime I have to get this blood to x by y cos its needed for z' would you have treated the matter differently - maybe even provided an escort?

Then the simple fact that you had cause to stop him 'the whole thing just looked odd'... lends me to your argument - you guys are out seeing this stuff all day everyday - I'd trust your judgement on this.

I was once stopped on a motorway by a police officer who informed me that the (borrowed) car I was driving had a number plate that didn't reflect the age of the car - the owner had purchased a plate that had his initials as the last 3 letters - I was well impressed with his observation and let the officer know this.

So in my view I'd risk the 'headlines' and go with your opinion that you should stop 'these untrained people basically taking the p*ss and endangering the lives that they are supposed to be protecting'

Maybe a quiet word in their ear might just calm them down a bit.

Keep up the good work

best
Ex

[R32]

Is it co-incidence that this driver and the ambulance driver that got nicked for speeding recently were both doing their 'runs' in the early hours of the morning? Perhaps the intention is to minimise risk?

I'm giving an alternate viewpoint to because if I was waiting for that blood transfusion I'd probably be a bit pi**ed off that the police decided to delay my blood!! My sister was also involved in an urgent run to Great Ormand Street when she developed a brain tumor. The ambulance drivers volunteered to drive her down to London in their OWN time - so I have nothing but respect for them.

If training for driving with blue lights on isn't required for ambulance drivers, he was only doing his job - so what is the problem? I hope you escorted him the rest of the way once you realised his job??

So do ambulance drivers (of any sort) receive mandatory driver training? Equally do ALL police officers who can use blue lights also receive mandatory driver training? Just interested to know if the average panda driver has mandatory driving training.

Finally although I sound against what you did, I agree the situation sounds a bit 'odd' from what you describe and being 'mouthy' wasn't the way to be.

[Buffalo]

This was covered before on the general gassing thread, but if i remember. All police undergo a sort of mini-advanced test (in relation to the national test) before they go out in the panda, but this is not the class 1 type training that the traffic guys get.

Ambulance drivers (the proper ones) get a form of the really advanced police stuff - so rest assurered they know what they are doing when they have their toe down - if emergency, but again also undertake a mini-advanced teset over the national one if merely patient transport or whaever. AFAIK they have to pass this test to pass their training.

If you are waiting for blood or not, i would prefer my courier to be someone with some form of advanced training over any old geezer who sees fit to buy himself an old transit van and stick cloured stripes on it. Simple reason that theres no point endangering a life to save one. Someone with better training will do the job better... I think it is right that there are some guidelines to who uses these vehicles.

MHO anyway....

[tonybav]

RC3 I think you misread tonyrec's post, this was not a proper ambulance, he makes very clear if it was then he would be escorting it not stopping it.

As for needing blood most hospital have large supplies so normal transport is for routine suppiles and there is no need to speed. The only circumstances under which urgent transportation is required would be a major emergancy, or the need for a very rare type, then I am sure the transport would be done by the emergency service not a courier firm.

[R32]

Buffalo said:

If you are waiting for blood or not, i would prefer my courier to be someone with some form of advanced training over any old geezer who sees fit to buy himself an old transit van and stick cloured stripes on it. Simple reason that theres no point endangering a life to save one. Someone with better training will do the job better... I think it is right that there are some guidelines to who uses these vehicles. MHO anyway....

Can't argue with that - just wondered if he'd actually done anything wrong....

Sounds like i've got the wrong end of the stick, if he is just some old geezer setting himself up as some sort of glorified courier then he deserved being checked out.

Doesnt sound like he was arrested or reported for anything, so training must not be mandatory, so are ambulance markings mandatory?

>> Edited by R32 on Thursday 31st July 10:59

[tonyrec]

R32 said:

Buffalo said: If you are waiting for blood or not, i would prefer my courier to be someone with some form of advanced training over any old geezer who sees fit to buy himself an old transit van and stick cloured stripes on it. Simple reason that theres no point endangering a life to save one. Someone with better training will do the job better... I think it is right that there are some guidelines to who uses these vehicles. MHO anyway.... Can't argue with that - just wondered if he'd actually done anything wrong.... Sounds like i've got the wrong end of the stick, if he is just some old geezer setting himself up as some sort of glorified courier then he deserved being checked out. Doesnt sound like he was arrested or reported for anything, so training must not be mandatory, so are ambulance markings mandatory?

There have been some good constructive replies to this and i will try to answer the main points.

Firstly,the driver of this van was reported for speeding.
I dont mind telling you but it was the other side of 100mph and after consulting the Hospital concerned found out that this was a blood run only, not urgent in any way shape or form and in fact was no more important than a postal delivery.

If it had of been 'urgent' then it would have been placed in a suitable vehicle with a trained driver for the purpose that it was intended.

London Ambulance drivers receive a minimum 3 week training course which must be passed before they can take Emergency calls. The onus is on them to arrive safely, its no good if they crash on route to a life/death situation and im pleased to say that its not very often that they are involved in RTA's so this must be testiment to their training.

Im sure that the issue of Police Driver Training has been explained on here several times so i will make this short and sweet.
About 15years ago, basic Panda drivers in the Met could not use the Bluelamp fitted to their cars because they were untrained and in fact the light had been disabled (until the vehicle was stationary). All they were, were in fact message cars.It then became apparent that these Pandas were in fact taking Emergency calls and were driving fast especially when one of his/her mates were getting a good kicking etc etc. In view of this there was a radical change in Policy.

We have 4 classes of Police driver.The most basic (which is the issue here) receive a thorough 2day course and check test by an Advanced driver. (Some say that this is NOT enough),but they drive low powered 'Panda' type cars used mainly as message cars but they do have a working Blue Lamp to facilitate going through traffic etc.If they are involved in an RTA and they are found to be at fault then they carry the can for their own actions.

This lad that we stopped on the Motorway the other night was eventually 'grateful' for the way he was treated and continued his journey into London.

[R32]

I humbly agree you were 100% correct in your actions :nowhowdoigetasmily: