NIP's and people abroad

[williamp]

Quick question: I have a girlfriend who is going back to South Africa for good in a few weeks. naturally I will get her adress and write to her.

Now, if she was caught speeding in my car and put her name down as the named driver, with the address in SA, would she be chased and prosecuted???

[blueyes]

williamp said:

Quick question: I have a girlfriend who is going back to South Africa for good in a few weeks. naturally I will get her adress and write to her. Now, if she was caught speeding in my car and put her name down as the named driver, with the address in SA, would she be chased and prosecuted???

Had a girlfriend visiting from Italy who got 2 GATSO tickets in three days in her days U.K. registered car. He wrote back giving her name and address in Italy. They wanted proof (totally illegal for them to ask I think?) he sent her boarding card stubs, they were happy. Then the second ticket arrives he fills in the form they ask for proof, he tells them to pi%% off. Nothing more heard by either party.

Any BIB's care to comment on this new loophole?

[dontlift]

hmmmmmmm very interesting way to get rid of a NIP

[TSS]

A friend’s ex-girlfriend got caught in his car by a Scamera near Birmingham. She’s British with a UK licence but lives in Holland. He filled out her details and Dutch address on the NIP. She received a form from the police asking her to confirm she was driving (don’t know if it was an NIP or just a form) which they sent to her Dutch address. She filled it in and returned it confirming she was the driver and never heard anything about it again.

This all happened 3 years ago though so they may chase people more thoroughly these days.

[clubsport]

I was thinking about this the other day,,,I know quite a few people who come over from the states on business.
I was working on the theory that when I got stopped for speeding in California a few years ago,I had 3 days to pay..I paid and never heard anymore.No record on my UK licence.

[madcop]

The answer is no. The non-resident would not be pursued for the offence. It would not be in the interests of economics or justice to have to use extradition procedures for such a minor offence (as long as she didn't commit it in North Wales as Brunstrum is capable of almost anything to prosecute the road traffic offender).

There is a procedure under Section 25 PACE 1984 which allows Police to arrest for any offence (traffic or otherwise) committed by persons who are non-resident and if service of a summons is not practicable i.e. the offender is leaving the country for good in a week or two, then they would be charged with the offence and fast tracked throught the court system to be dealt with.

People from abroad who have premises or contact addresses where summons can be served are not likely to be subject to this part of PACE. Visitors stopped for offences are foolish to explain they are not going to be here very long. If they give the address of a friend they are staying with who is living here as a permanent address, then that is sufficient to serve a summons.

When that summons is served and the person fails to turn up for court, otr the NIP is not returned, an enquiry will begin to trace the alleged offender and bring them before a court. If the prosecuting authorities find they are in Durban or Johannesburg for good, they are unlikely to do anything other than bin the paperwork.

So if anyone is visiting you from abroad and they are driving your car which activates a speed camera, then when the paperwork arrives, filling in the details of the foriegn driver who has now gone back to wherever they came from will result in no further action for that offence. know what I mean!



>> Edited by madcop on Monday 4th August 13:57

[marki]

madcop said:

The answer is no. The non-resident would not be pursued for the offence. It would not be in the interests of economics or justice to have to use extradition procedures for such a minor offence (as long as she didn't commit it in North Wales as Brunstrum is capable of almost anything to prosecute the road traffic offender).

Thanks Madcop ,, im over to visit the family in a while and this question has been on my mind

[Cooperman]

If you name a foreign national/resident on the NIP and the BiB ask for more information such as ports of entry, flight numbers, etc., are you under any liability to supply this additional information under threat of proceedings under S172?

[madcop]

Cooperman said:

If you name a foreign national/resident on the NIP and the BiB ask for more information such as ports of entry, flight numbers, etc., are you under any liability to supply this additional information under threat of proceedings under S172?

By the time they get it, the alleged offender is likely to have be tucked up in their own bed for many nights after the request was received (if you use your loaf a bit)

You are only required to name the driver and the address on an NIp. Having done that, your obligations are fulfilled and the rest of the investigation is down to the Police. If they ask you any more, all you have to say is "I have complied with the section 172 notice".

If you are further asked questions about the offender, you could voluntarily give the answers, you could forget the details they are trying to establish or you could ask if you are being investigated for an offence in which case you MUST be cautioned and from that point on, you are not obliged to say anything, so don't

>> Edited by madcop on Monday 4th August 14:10

[deltaf]

Sounds like you dont really approve of old funsy brunsy then MC?

BTW, i just looked up the word "Brunstrom" in the dictionary...defined as "arsehole"....mind you that wasnt in the Oxford Eeeengleesh

[madcop]

deltaf said:

Sounds like you dont really approve of old funsy brunsy then MC? BTW, i just looked up the word "Brunstrom" in the dictionary...defined as "arsehole"....mind you that wasnt in the Oxford Eeeengleesh

What, Moi, disapprove?

[blueyes]

Madcop, sort of off topic but can you shed some light on this please?

U.K. resident goes to live abroad, swaps U.K. driving licence for EEC one (Spanish/Italian/French). Comes back to U.K. for a holiday and gets pulled over for speeding in a mates U.K. car. Would he get booked or bollocked? Would he get points put on his U.K. record (in case he came back to the U.K. to live) Would he get arrested? Would he have to pay the fine?

Ta

[madcop]

blueyes said:

Madcop, sort of off topic but can you shed some light on this please?

blueyes said:

U.K. resident goes to live abroad, swaps U.K. driving licence for EEC one (Spanish/Italian/French). Comes back to U.K. for a holiday and gets pulled over for speeding in a mates U.K. car. Would he get booked or bollocked?

That depends on the answers he gives to any questions he is asked.

If he lets on that he is not a UK resident and has no address in this country, he stands likely to be arrested under Section 25 PACE 1984 and then charged with the offence he is alleged to have commited to appear in a UK court where the offence took place within hours of the commision of the offence.

If he has family here or a friend that can accept the service of a summons at an acceptable address, that would make the arrest unlikely but he would risk being summonsed through the address. If he is not resident and is not likely to return other than as a casual visitor, then the summons will eventually be withdrawn as at the moment there are no procedures for bringing someone back to the UK for this type of minor offence other than extradition. That is very expensive and will noty happen.

blueyes said:

Would he get points put on his U.K. record (in case he came back to the U.K. to live) Would he get arrested? Would he have to pay the fine? Ta

If he is convicted after arrest under procedures from Section 25 PACE and has had a UK licence he will still have one, even if he swaps it for a domestic licence in an EU country. In fact there would be no point because a UK licence in any EU state is as valid as the domestic permit for that particular country as it is here.

The record of his UK licence will remain forever at DVLA and can be endorsed accordingly with offence codes if he is caught, even when on a short visit to the UK.

Foreign non resident drivers who are convicted in this country are given what is called a 'skeleton licence'.
This means a licence record is created for them by DVLA without them having to sit any test or apply for the licence, and to which if necessary a computer record can be retrieved and put before a court in this country so the court is aware of any previous convictions should they offend again.

>> Edited by madcop on Wednesday 6th August 11:13

[blueyes]

Thanks for that.

Although I must say it all seems a little over the top for a speeding offence.

I know you've quoted what could/should happen but have you had any actual experience of this and what happened?

[madcop]

blueyes said:

Thanks for that. Although I must say it all seems a little over the top for a speeding offence. I know you've quoted what could/should happen but have you had any actual experience of this and what happened?

Yes I have had experience of this and on one occasion was responsible for a portuguese national missing his flight to Lisbon where he was to register the next day for his National Service before an connecting flight to Rio-De-Janero. His offence was to drive at 120mph down the hard shoulder because he had stayed at the beach too long and was pushed for time to catch the flight. His attitude was not good either !
Section 25 came in very useful on that occasion.

For minor offences of speeding and other traffic stuff, usually a bollocking is sufficient with an explanation of Sect 25 procedures if they can understand well enough which is enough to make them think.

If you think about it though with EU countries on the continent, you are expected to pay an on the spot fine which the officer actually levies there and then. If you cannot pay, you are arrested and your car is impounded until you can pay.

Arresting a foriegn national under Sect 25 procedures is usually good for stacks of overtime, epsecially if they are from Belarous/Albania or some other strange dialect speaking country and it is near the end of your shift, as interpreters are very difficult to find so that the arrested person can be dealt with expediently ['Ker-ching'isthesoundtoassocaite]


>> Edited by madcop on Wednesday 6th August 15:42