Driving Standards !
Discussion
I think thats its about time that the Government realise that Driving standards in general have evaporated within the last 2 or 3 years.
(How long have speed cameras and Talivans been around- any coincidence?).
There are people taking the p**s left right and centre and even whilst driving to work people are passing you on the inside, using mobile phones and generally driving eratically.
I remember about 7 or 8 years ago if someone pulled up alongside you in traffic whilst you were in a Marked Trafpol car then the first thing that they did was to put on their seatbelt etc. Now they pull up alongside and ask for directions and dont think twice about it.
This is just the tip of the iceburg, and in general because they are not being caught, or theres little chance of them being caught, then they just carry on driving like numpties.
There is a direct coralation between the demise in the number of Traffic units and the escalation of very poor driving standards and its about time that the powers that be realise this.
Had a talk today about road safety and speeding and i guess that its pi***d me off slightly.
Rant over now......
(How long have speed cameras and Talivans been around- any coincidence?).
There are people taking the p**s left right and centre and even whilst driving to work people are passing you on the inside, using mobile phones and generally driving eratically.
I remember about 7 or 8 years ago if someone pulled up alongside you in traffic whilst you were in a Marked Trafpol car then the first thing that they did was to put on their seatbelt etc. Now they pull up alongside and ask for directions and dont think twice about it.
This is just the tip of the iceburg, and in general because they are not being caught, or theres little chance of them being caught, then they just carry on driving like numpties.
There is a direct coralation between the demise in the number of Traffic units and the escalation of very poor driving standards and its about time that the powers that be realise this.
Had a talk today about road safety and speeding and i guess that its pi***d me off slightly.
Rant over now......
absolutely! i tend to avoid roads that are heavily polluted with cameras, not because i speed! i very rarely do! its just that on roads with cameras i find myself concentrating more on where the cameras are than watching the road ahead! i am normally driving a hilux diesel pickup, so i cant really drive fast, but i have to admit that in areas with lots of cameras, i stick below the limit and i usually get so bored i am nearly falling asleep! i would prefer to be at an appropriate speed for the road and weather conditions and be alert!It's all back to what we're all asking for....
GET RID OF ALL CAMERAS and employ the intelligent use of intelligent traffic plod....... hand held mobile phone users should LOSE their licenses...etc...
BUT then the scumbag government and their commie crony RedKen would lose their taxes.....
GET RID OF ALL CAMERAS and employ the intelligent use of intelligent traffic plod....... hand held mobile phone users should LOSE their licenses...etc...
BUT then the scumbag government and their commie crony RedKen would lose their taxes.....
I agree completely - to me bad driving is the cause of accidents not speeding in itself.
In my experience there is an assumption that speeding = unsafe driving and thats it - stamp out speed and you stamp out unsafe driving. To me that is nonsense. I have seen so many people driving like complete idiots - just yesterday I saw TWO huge artics driving 10 feet away from each other on the M25 and 10ft from the car in front. But they were within the speed limit, so of course it was safe....what nonsense. It is time that we used the police for what they are good at - making INFORMED decisions about driving on our roads with speed being perhaps ONE factor in their decision.
I also think there would be significant benefits it we institute regular additional driving courses, so if you have driven for a year you should go on another more advanced course, perhaps 2 years later, another one (say on skid handling, car control etc). Thereby gradually uplifting the skills of the motorists.
This singleminded focus on speeding (aka revenue collection) is out of place.
Just my 2c
In my experience there is an assumption that speeding = unsafe driving and thats it - stamp out speed and you stamp out unsafe driving. To me that is nonsense. I have seen so many people driving like complete idiots - just yesterday I saw TWO huge artics driving 10 feet away from each other on the M25 and 10ft from the car in front. But they were within the speed limit, so of course it was safe....what nonsense. It is time that we used the police for what they are good at - making INFORMED decisions about driving on our roads with speed being perhaps ONE factor in their decision.
I also think there would be significant benefits it we institute regular additional driving courses, so if you have driven for a year you should go on another more advanced course, perhaps 2 years later, another one (say on skid handling, car control etc). Thereby gradually uplifting the skills of the motorists.
This singleminded focus on speeding (aka revenue collection) is out of place.
Just my 2c
T-rex
I'm glad someone else brought this up. After yesterday's 'all women drivers are crap' thread, I decided that I would do a mini (and not very scientific) survey this morning on the way to work. I drive 55 miles to work, setting off at 6.30ish and taking about an hour. Almost all of this is M1 in the Midlands. This morning, I observed the following:
No of vehicles cutting me up enough to make me brake or alter my course - 6 (5 men, 1 woman with bad streaks)
No of vehicles ignoring electronic lane closed signs/50mph speed limit and still accelerating (I'd guess over 80) even when you could see blue lights and wreckage less than 1/2 mile ahead - 1 (male)
No of vehicles tailgating me at 90mph when I had nowhere to go without causing someone else to brake - 1 (male)
No of people I flashed and made space for - 11 (all male). No who acknowledged - 2 (one 'stereotype' black man in BMW and 1 white van man)
No of people apparently unable to see a Police Range Rover with Blues and Twos immediately behind them for over a mile - 1 (male)
No of Middle Lane Morons (criteria - if the inside lane was empty for 1/2 mile or thereabouts) - I lost count at over 35 (I'd say the proportion of women was high, but didn't count because I was keeping the numbers in my head)
My conclusions? I'd thought that today was an easy drive to work, traffic was fairly light compared with normal, mostly with good gaps between vehicles and free flowing. When you start to really look, driving standards are just a disgrace. It's horrifying.
And my conclusion from the 'gender survey' is that my opinion hasn't changed. Some drivers (a high proportion it would seem) are in dire need of retraining, I doubt gender really matters. I'd guess that drivers of serious cars are more serious about their skills and are slightly better, except for those who bought the car as an ego trip.
>> Edited by rude girl on Wednesday 13th August 09:12
No of vehicles cutting me up enough to make me brake or alter my course - 6 (5 men, 1 woman with bad streaks)
No of vehicles ignoring electronic lane closed signs/50mph speed limit and still accelerating (I'd guess over 80) even when you could see blue lights and wreckage less than 1/2 mile ahead - 1 (male)
No of vehicles tailgating me at 90mph when I had nowhere to go without causing someone else to brake - 1 (male)
No of people I flashed and made space for - 11 (all male). No who acknowledged - 2 (one 'stereotype' black man in BMW and 1 white van man)
No of people apparently unable to see a Police Range Rover with Blues and Twos immediately behind them for over a mile - 1 (male)
No of Middle Lane Morons (criteria - if the inside lane was empty for 1/2 mile or thereabouts) - I lost count at over 35 (I'd say the proportion of women was high, but didn't count because I was keeping the numbers in my head)
My conclusions? I'd thought that today was an easy drive to work, traffic was fairly light compared with normal, mostly with good gaps between vehicles and free flowing. When you start to really look, driving standards are just a disgrace. It's horrifying.
And my conclusion from the 'gender survey' is that my opinion hasn't changed. Some drivers (a high proportion it would seem) are in dire need of retraining, I doubt gender really matters. I'd guess that drivers of serious cars are more serious about their skills and are slightly better, except for those who bought the car as an ego trip.
>> Edited by rude girl on Wednesday 13th August 09:12
Offering people big incentives to take additional courses would help enormously otherwise they might not see the point. The biggest incentive I can think of would be proper insurance discounts not just the token gestures currently offered.
When I passed my IAM test I expected my insurance to go down considerably, in fact it still went up.
I think insurance companies could do much better by scaling discounts dependant on number of courses you go on and your pass rate, e.g.
As said previously courses like:
1. Skid control.
2. Hazard Awareness.
3. Car control.
4. Advanced Driving.
5. Speed Awareness.
etc,etc.
When I passed my IAM test I expected my insurance to go down considerably, in fact it still went up.
I think insurance companies could do much better by scaling discounts dependant on number of courses you go on and your pass rate, e.g.
As said previously courses like:
1. Skid control.
2. Hazard Awareness.
3. Car control.
4. Advanced Driving.
5. Speed Awareness.
etc,etc.
tonyrec said:
I think thats its about time that the Government realise that Driving standards in general have evaporated within the last 2 or 3 years.
(How long have speed cameras and Talivans been around- any coincidence?).
There are people taking the p**s left right and centre and even whilst driving to work people are passing you on the inside, using mobile phones and generally driving eratically.
I remember about 7 or 8 years ago if someone pulled up alongside you in traffic whilst you were in a Marked Trafpol car then the first thing that they did was to put on their seatbelt etc. Now they pull up alongside and ask for directions and dont think twice about it.
This is just the tip of the iceburg, and in general because they are not being caught, or theres little chance of them being caught, then they just carry on driving like numpties.
There is a direct coralation between the demise in the number of Traffic units and the escalation of very poor driving standards and its about time that the powers that be realise this.
Had a talk today about road safety and speeding and i guess that its pi***d me off slightly.
Rant over now......
Seem to recall that I have posted for some time that we need Traffic police out in cars lecturing people as to their driving ability.
The whole point of catching people is to educate them that what they are doing is wrog. A traffic police officer is likely to do this whether they book a driver or not. A camera summons offers no education at all.
Traffic Officers target should be to educate drivers not issue x number of tickets or whatever.
Surely standards would rise if more people undertook ‘The Institute of Advanced Motorists’ or other similar tests. This is an excellent way of improving driving standards. But apart from personal satisfaction, and the ability to say ‘I’m an advanced driver’, there is no other real benefit at the moment.
I passed my advanced test almost 10 years ago, mainly because I was young, wanted to show off a bit, by being able to pass the test, and wanted the cheaper insurance I was promised, that came with being an Advanced Motorist.
Well 10 years later, apart from receiving a magazine quarterly telling me of the group’s activities (which seems to be run by people of retiring age), and a certificate for my wall that’s it. What happened to the cheaper insurance…?
Everyone believes he or she is an excellent driver (me included), so no one ever thinks about improving their standard because they are already good. What really motivates people is cash. If insurance companies recognised the ‘IAM’ test and gave a proper discount (not vouchers or a referral scheme, etc) of say another £50 off your car insurance, this surely would motivate more people to take the test. If this was sent back to you in a cheque once you have submitted your membership, it would seem like you really were getting a discount, rather than being lost in accelerator bonuses, ncd, etc.
I’ve paid approximately £10,500 in insurance over the past 10 years, and not once did I get a discount for having achieved ‘a higher than average driving standard’. When I was younger insurance companies seemed to recognise and give discount for a pass plus certificate…!!! But not apprx 7 hours of observation and a 1 & ½ hour advanced driving test. Apart from personal satisfaction, why should people go to all the bother…?
It must have done me some good, as I’ve never had any points or accidents
jj
Edited to say – that between reading and writing I now see ‘lucozade’ has written something similar – regarding Insurance and the IAM
>> Edited by jj. on Wednesday 13th August 09:37
I passed my advanced test almost 10 years ago, mainly because I was young, wanted to show off a bit, by being able to pass the test, and wanted the cheaper insurance I was promised, that came with being an Advanced Motorist.
Well 10 years later, apart from receiving a magazine quarterly telling me of the group’s activities (which seems to be run by people of retiring age), and a certificate for my wall that’s it. What happened to the cheaper insurance…?
Everyone believes he or she is an excellent driver (me included), so no one ever thinks about improving their standard because they are already good. What really motivates people is cash. If insurance companies recognised the ‘IAM’ test and gave a proper discount (not vouchers or a referral scheme, etc) of say another £50 off your car insurance, this surely would motivate more people to take the test. If this was sent back to you in a cheque once you have submitted your membership, it would seem like you really were getting a discount, rather than being lost in accelerator bonuses, ncd, etc.
I’ve paid approximately £10,500 in insurance over the past 10 years, and not once did I get a discount for having achieved ‘a higher than average driving standard’. When I was younger insurance companies seemed to recognise and give discount for a pass plus certificate…!!! But not apprx 7 hours of observation and a 1 & ½ hour advanced driving test. Apart from personal satisfaction, why should people go to all the bother…?
It must have done me some good, as I’ve never had any points or accidents
jj
Edited to say – that between reading and writing I now see ‘lucozade’ has written something similar – regarding Insurance and the IAM
>> Edited by jj. on Wednesday 13th August 09:37
chrisgr31 said:
Traffic Officers target should be to educate drivers not issue x number of tickets or whatever.
We are basically told that if we drive around and do nothing all day then we must issue a number of Tickets for any offences whatsoever,all to justify our days work which i agree with totally.But sometimes you dont get a chance to do any Process due to running around helping other motorists.
Yesterday for example, due to a shortage of manpower on the road, my colleague and i answered 14 Emergency calls ranging from 2 Rta's to broken down cars on both the M1 and A40......oh, and one process.
We dodnt stop all day and i was well and truly knackered when i got home.
Its our aim to educate drivers and not just issue tickets for number crunching exercises.
But you would not believe some of the things that go on.
Just as an example, yesterday we attended a broken down car in the Hanger Lane Underpass on the A40, when we got there i was amased to see that another motorist (good samaratin), had turned his car around and was trying to jump start the broken down car in the outside lane !!!!!!!!!! strange but sadly VERY true.
Just an hour later, whilst driving the other way into the Underpass we were confronted with a car reversing towards us out of the tunnel.
Bless, the poor old chap had just missed his turning and couldnt bother his arse to carry on through the tunnel to the next exit. Needless to say he was our first victim of the day.(He was nearly a fatal accident statistic).
These are the things that motorists do to keep us gainfully employes all day long.
[quote=tonyrec]I think thats its about time that the Government realise that Driving standards in general have evaporated within the last 2 or 3 years.
(How long have speed cameras and Talivans been around- any coincidence?).
Well do we think that the problem really lies there? it seems to me that over the past 6 years we have an ever increasing subculture with no regard for anything, and all these people are driving cars!!
(How long have speed cameras and Talivans been around- any coincidence?).
Well do we think that the problem really lies there? it seems to me that over the past 6 years we have an ever increasing subculture with no regard for anything, and all these people are driving cars!!
jj. said:
Surely standards would rise if more people undertook ‘The Institute of Advanced Motorists’ or other similar tests. This is an excellent way of improving driving standards.
I can understand why you say that, but I disagree slightly. My uncle passed his IAM a few yrs ago, and - without exception - he is possibly one of the worst drivers I have ever been in a car with. I think the reason is that at the time he drove below limit, checked his mirrors, indicated etc. etc.....and then probably drove away from the test like a numptie again.
I personally beleive that a better way to maintain a high(er) driving standard would be to have repeat tests for EVERYBODY every, say 2yrs. Perhaps even to move it further on, the test is graded (eg like RoSPA...bronze silver gold) and insurance is affected by the grade. That way, each 2 yrs you would have to take the test or lose your license.
I think this may be a better way of achieving a general increase in driving standards, however the practicalities of it may not be all that!
Once again, just my 2c worth !
>> Edited by tonyhetherington on Wednesday 13th August 12:31
355f said:
Well do we think that the problem really lies there? it seems to me that over the past 6 years we have an ever increasing subculture with no regard for anything, and all these people are driving cars!!
I'd agree with this. I think that this group has always been with us it just seems to have got larger and more noticeable. Mindless vandalism, contempt for private property ... I could go on. I think frankly that people today think more about their rights than their responsibilities.
Education.
Driving licences should last 5 years then you apply again. Grade the test like rospa link it to insurance.
Education, there you go, not a rude word.
Where is there education, for motorists ? None, Where is the education for pedestrians? None?
5 year expiry for all driving licences, its a start but nupties would have to 'work' to pass it.
No cost to the gov as you pay for retest. Lots of jobs created for new examiners and instructors. Win :Win
Its beyond me why this is not in force now. But then many things that may actually help driving standards arnt done.
Driving licences should last 5 years then you apply again. Grade the test like rospa link it to insurance.
Education, there you go, not a rude word.
Where is there education, for motorists ? None, Where is the education for pedestrians? None?
5 year expiry for all driving licences, its a start but nupties would have to 'work' to pass it.
No cost to the gov as you pay for retest. Lots of jobs created for new examiners and instructors. Win :Win
Its beyond me why this is not in force now. But then many things that may actually help driving standards arnt done.
hertsbiker said:
superb thread peeps.
Hey, rudegirl - atleast I wasn't having a go...
Wonder how long it will take for the tide to turn away from "speed" to "skill" ?
C
No, you weren't. I wasn't having a go at the blokes by the way, yesterday's thread just made me pay more attention to who was driving the cars. I did notice how few women seemed to be on the road this morning, so maybe I'll repeat the experiment when the school holidays are over.
I doubt that speed will turn to skill. It's not easily measurable, not easily (or cheaply)enforceable and doesn't generate revenue.
I agree with the ideas put forward here,but sadly I think it's too late - standards have become so poor that it would just cripple the economy to try and recover the ground we've already lost in skills.
Education, there you go, not a rude word.
Where is there education, for motorists ? None, Where is the education for pedestrians? None?
5 year expiry for all driving licences, its a start but nupties would have to 'work' to pass it.
No cost to the gov as you pay for retest. Lots of jobs created for new examiners and instructors. Win :Win
Its beyond me why this is not in force now. But then many things that may actually help driving standards arnt done.[/quote]
Do we really want MORE rules?? we are fast becoming a namby state with individuals incapable of making basic sensible decisions.
Its a regretable fact that there will always be road deaths, so one has to mitigate this but what happens??
On an otherwise fairly safe road there is a major accident, so the speedlimit is lowered to 'protect the motorist. Then more road control and hatching and so forth- the result MORE accidents time and time again. The more you try and protect individuals from them selves the worse it is
The more control one excercises over a population the more self thought and responsibility goes out of the window
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