Speed sign removal

[DanL]

Here's one for the BiB and more knowledgeable PH'ers.

If a road's limit has been lowered (a dual carriageway, for example) to 40, with the requisite signs, this is obviously enforceable.

If these signs were to go missing, could the limit be enforced? Whilst I'm thinking about it, what law would be broken by removing the signs? (I'm sure there is one!)

Just something that occurred to me the other day. All hypothetical, you understand...

Dan

[plotloss]

No signs & regularly spaced street lights = 30

Damned blasted default rules...

[dontlift]

plotloss said:

No signs & regularly spaced street lights = 30 Damned blasted default rules...

If they were turned to face the side of the road i would imagine that it would then be classed as inaqequately signed, and as the sign is there the default does not apply....

are we onto a winner here?

[tonyrec]

If the entry signs to the speed limit were 'stolen' then a conviction could not be secured at Court.

As for the offence, its arrestable and goes along the lines of 'causing danger to roadusers by interfering with lawfully placed roadside property'.

You get the drift, i cant remember the exact wording or act/section.

Its the same offence as the person who removes cones etc around a hole in the road.

Then theres Sect 1 Theft too (if you intend to permanetly deprive) but quite what you would do with a pair of road signs...hmmmm

[206xsi]

I'd offer them to Brunstrom

Well not offer.... forcibly re-site...

I could say I was doing it for a dare to raise money for drugs - he'd appreciate that.

>> Edited by 206xsi on Thursday 14th August 10:31

[toad_oftoadhall]

tonyrec said:

As for the offence, its arrestable and goes along the lines of 'causing danger to roadusers by interfering with lawfully placed roadside property'.

Since speeding kills once the limit ceases to be in action it should be physically imposible to kill or be killed on that bit of road. Removing the signs makes it *far* safer!

[deltaf]

Does this technicality also apply to the signs displayed on some talivans i wonder????? HMMMMMMMMM???????????

[trefor]

tonyrec said:

If the entry signs to the speed limit were 'stolen' then a conviction could not be secured at Court.

I guess you might have to prove the signs were missing on the day you were caught speeding - OK if a Policeman caught you - you can point at the lack of signage, but not a Gatso/Tallivan. I'm sure I've read of a case on this very forum where the signage was missing but went up shortly afterwards covering all tracks.

Otherwise you could have removed them after receiving the penalty/court summons.

[outlaw]

plotloss said:

No signs & regularly spaced street lights = 30 Damned blasted default rules...

dont dake long to hack a few posts down with a disk cuter

[outlaw]

[quote=tonyrec]If the entry signs to the speed limit were 'stolen' then a conviction could not be secured at Court.

As for the offence, its arrestable and goes along the lines of 'causing danger to roadusers by interfering with lawfully placed roadside property'.

You get the drift, i cant remember the exact wording or act/section.

Its the same offence as the person who removes cones etc around a hole in the road.

Then theres Sect 1 Theft too (if you intend to permanetly deprive) but quite what you would do with a pair of road signs...hmmmm[/quote

yep but theft road signs is abit harder too prove

you dont have to confess.

hint hint

[ian d]

on a similar but marginally connected thread:
a few years ago in scotland all the road signs started to disappear, you know vanish, gone.

well they started to turn up at scrap yards in pieces or recycled lumps because they are made from aluminium generally, worth a bob or three.

illegal but quite humourous.

one could of course, if one found them lying about post (mail)the speed camera signs to No.10 Downing St, London ... to return them to their rightful owner!

[hertsbiker]

What about when a numpty parks their talivan so it blocks clear line of sight to a sign? as per the A127 into Southend?

[icamm]

Isn't there soomething about the signs not being obscured by trees or other fixed "roadside furniture" as well. I doubt this affects them being obscured by a temporary obsticle like a parked van but if the hedge cutters haven't been out......

[lucozade]

DanL said:

Here's one for the BiB and more knowledgeable PH'ers. If a road's limit has been lowered (a dual carriageway, for example) to 40, with the requisite signs, this is obviously enforceable. If these signs were to go missing, could the limit be enforced? Whilst I'm thinking about it, what law would be broken by removing the signs? (I'm sure there is one!) Just something that occurred to me the other day. All hypothetical, you understand... Dan

Dan,

I was pulled for 67mph in an apparent 30mph. After much deliberation and two years of bouncing around the CPS offered 57mph due to a technical challenge we put up about the LTI 20/20. I then pled guilty to 57mph and offered "special reasons" for doing so. Namely the road was unclear as to what the speed was, I was new to the area, and with video footage showed that there is an apparent change in road circumstances, i.e. leaving a single carriageway onto a dual carriagway and no repeater signs. At the end of the dual carriageway and very important to my case was a sharp left bend warning with a 30mph Max Speed Advisory sign (white background black text). This the judge ruled, could be taken as meaning that prior to the advisory sign meant that road was more than 30mph.

"Special Reasons" is the term given to explaining to the judge why you really did believe the speed limit was higher - refer to the case of Burgess v West for more info.