ticket for fog lights on.....should i go to court?
Discussion
Last night at 9pm i was unlucky enough to be stopped whilst driving in the outskirts of my town, i had my front fog lights on, because (a)it was dark and (b)there was fog around.
Cant believe they gave me a ticket....£30.00
If i choose to go to court and contest it, what is the procedure? What are my chances....and what will i get (fine etc) if the court upholds it?
I am so incensed that i feel like taking it to court because it will cost them a lot more than £30, but what might it cost me?
Cant believe they gave me a ticket....£30.00
If i choose to go to court and contest it, what is the procedure? What are my chances....and what will i get (fine etc) if the court upholds it?
I am so incensed that i feel like taking it to court because it will cost them a lot more than £30, but what might it cost me?
a BIT harsh...??!! Sounds like you were unlucky enough to be stopped by someone in a bad mood....
the thing is....it is an offence if the conditions arent 'legally foggy', so how would you argue? Whilst Im totally with you, the phrase "you must be having a giraffe" won't sctually change the facts...?
N
the thing is....it is an offence if the conditions arent 'legally foggy', so how would you argue? Whilst Im totally with you, the phrase "you must be having a giraffe" won't sctually change the facts...?
N
I have sympathy with your situation if as you say it was foggy, presumably plod thought it wasn't bad enough to warrant fog lights. What is the legal minimum visibility before they are permitted to be used? 50m?
If the visibility was greater than the legal minimum then I have absolutely no sympathy whatever for anybody using fog lights.
What do they gain from using them? They only illuminate the kerbs for a very short distance in front of the car and are therefore of very little use if the visibility enables the driver to travel at any speed above 5 mph. In fact, how many times have you driven in conditions when fog lights can genuinely help you to see your way along the road, and on those occassions has it not been the case that visibility is that bad that you can see better by switching your headlights off. Don't tell me that they make your car more visible, because the normal headlights do that very satisfactorily.
What they do achieve however is to dazzle oncoming traffic particularly if it is wet. Why do people equate rain and drizzle with front fog lights? These conditions make the dazzle factor even worse. If you drive a car with relatively low seats the effect is worse again.
Show some thought and consideration for other road users
.
Sorry for the rant, one of my pet hates along with high level brake lights in traffic queues. Flame me if you wish, on this topic I don't care.
Hey, these wouldn't also be one of the accessories most beloved of the MaxPower brigade would they?
Hang em high I say (but I reserve the right to selectively support those laws that suit me!
).
Edited by martvr on Friday 11th January 14:23
If the visibility was greater than the legal minimum then I have absolutely no sympathy whatever for anybody using fog lights.
What do they gain from using them? They only illuminate the kerbs for a very short distance in front of the car and are therefore of very little use if the visibility enables the driver to travel at any speed above 5 mph. In fact, how many times have you driven in conditions when fog lights can genuinely help you to see your way along the road, and on those occassions has it not been the case that visibility is that bad that you can see better by switching your headlights off. Don't tell me that they make your car more visible, because the normal headlights do that very satisfactorily.
What they do achieve however is to dazzle oncoming traffic particularly if it is wet. Why do people equate rain and drizzle with front fog lights? These conditions make the dazzle factor even worse. If you drive a car with relatively low seats the effect is worse again.
Show some thought and consideration for other road users
. Sorry for the rant, one of my pet hates along with high level brake lights in traffic queues. Flame me if you wish, on this topic I don't care.
Hey, these wouldn't also be one of the accessories most beloved of the MaxPower brigade would they?
Hang em high I say (but I reserve the right to selectively support those laws that suit me!
). Edited by martvr on Friday 11th January 14:23
What they do achieve however is to dazzle oncoming traffic particularly if it is wet. Why do people equate rain and drizzle with front fog lights? These conditions make the dazzle factor even worse. If you drive a car with relatively low seats the effect is worse again.
Show some thought and consideration for other road users.
Sorry for the rant, one of my pet hates along with high level brake lights in traffic queues. Flame me if you wish, on this topic I don't care.
Hey, these wouldn't also be one of the accessories most beloved of the MaxPower brigade would they?
Oh boy, my favourite pet hate. There are two types of offender. The "hey, these lights look cool" type and the "sorry, I have no idea what all these little switches and lights on the dashboard mean". In either case they have no business being on the road until they figure out the correct operating procedures for a motor vehicle.
Having said that I agree, sympathy to the chap who got the ticket if it really was foggy, sounds like the usual story of the real offenders never getting caught while the innocent get stiffed every time.
Steve
ps Just don't get me started on high level brake lights in traffic queues, especially on Canyoneros
If its just £30 and no points then I'd pay it to be honest.
Simple reason being, that if you argue your case and lose, then get a speeding fine from a tax camera and end up in front of the same magistrates then it may not help your case much if you have argued over £30 before.
Just a thought.
Matt.
Simple reason being, that if you argue your case and lose, then get a speeding fine from a tax camera and end up in front of the same magistrates then it may not help your case much if you have argued over £30 before.
Just a thought.
Matt.
Does anyone know the legal requirements that differentiate driving lights / supplemental headlights from fog lights?
The reason I ask is that my Corrado has very poor dipped headlights and its "fog" lights are set pretty high up, just under the headlights. How high up do they have to be before they cease to be fog lights? I heard 61cm from somewhere once. Are my fog lights still fog lights? (if you see what I mean)
Many Corrado owners use these may-be-fog-but-may-be-driving lights to supplement the dipped headlights, and they do work very well. I'm reliably informed (by my other half when we drive in convoy and also from seeing other Corrados on the road) that they don't dazzle, but I still only use them on unlit minor roads in light traffic out of consideration for other road users.
I'll agree that most front foglights do dazzle though and shouldn't be used.
Regards
Jon
Edited by JonRB on Friday 11th January 14:57
The reason I ask is that my Corrado has very poor dipped headlights and its "fog" lights are set pretty high up, just under the headlights. How high up do they have to be before they cease to be fog lights? I heard 61cm from somewhere once. Are my fog lights still fog lights? (if you see what I mean)
Many Corrado owners use these may-be-fog-but-may-be-driving lights to supplement the dipped headlights, and they do work very well. I'm reliably informed (by my other half when we drive in convoy and also from seeing other Corrados on the road) that they don't dazzle, but I still only use them on unlit minor roads in light traffic out of consideration for other road users.
I'll agree that most front foglights do dazzle though and shouldn't be used.
Regards
Jon
Edited by JonRB on Friday 11th January 14:57
Sorry Straight6, sounds like a fair cop to me, (unless it really was foggy as opposed to a bit drizzly/misty) In any case reason (a) gives your game away. Anyone who sticks their fog lights on because "it was dark" deserves a ticket for £30 quid. Didn't have you rear high intensity lamp on as well did you? People who do this on motorways when it is raining are just plain stupid 
JonRB, From memory there are measurements taken from the centre point outwards, plus vertical distance. Also when they can be used in conjunction with headlamps. Front/rear fog lamps can only be used with dipped beam and driving lights are only supposed to be used with main beam, therefore secondary lights should only be used in the fog, or with main beam. Somebody with all the facts and figures will probably flame me, I left the UK four years ago so am not up to date. Maybe John Robson can help here? BTW I have not seen any posts from JR recently.
Regardless of what the "fog light haters" say, 'cos you're on PistonHeads - here's the advice.
Phone the Met office, and ask for a print out of the localised weather conditions for that area.
Go to court, and present this as evidence, and argue that it WAS FOGGY 'cos the Met office said so.
It's called "expert witness", and the Judge will accept it as truth.
But don't do it again, naughty boy.
Carl
Phone the Met office, and ask for a print out of the localised weather conditions for that area.
Go to court, and present this as evidence, and argue that it WAS FOGGY 'cos the Met office said so.
It's called "expert witness", and the Judge will accept it as truth.
But don't do it again, naughty boy.
Carl
From the online Highway code:
www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/10.htm
201. You MUST use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced, generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet). You may also use front or rear fog lights but you MUST switch them off when visibility improves (see Rule 211).
Law RVLR regs 25 & 27
211. You MUST NOT use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 201) as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves.
Law RVLR regs 25 & 27
So it would appear that 100m is the magic distance.
www.roads.dtlr.gov.uk/roadsafety/hc/10.htm
201. You MUST use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced, generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet). You may also use front or rear fog lights but you MUST switch them off when visibility improves (see Rule 211).
Law RVLR regs 25 & 27
211. You MUST NOT use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 201) as they dazzle other road users and can obscure your brake lights. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves.
Law RVLR regs 25 & 27
So it would appear that 100m is the magic distance.
Fog lights are lights that can come on independently of the main beam, driving lights must be switched by the main beam switch. Driving lights can be fixed anywhere on the front of the car providing they are in pairs, not higher than the headlamps and not further towards the wings than the headlamps. Unfortunately if you had dipped beams and your fog lights on you are committing an offence if visibility is not <100metres. I think this definition renders the lights on VWs fog, rather than driving, lights.
The rules goeverning the position of fog lights are as follows:
Part 2 Schedule 6 (regulation 20) Requirements relating to optional
front fog lamps
1. Number- a) No requirement
2. Position- a) Longitudinal: No requirement
b) Lateral-
i) Where a pair of front fog lamps is used in conditions of seriously
reduced visibility in place of the obligatory dipped beam headlamps-
Maximum distance from side of vehicle: 400mm
ii) In all other cases: No requirement
c) Vertical-
i) Maximum height above the ground-
A) 1200mm
ii) Minimum height above the ground: No requirement
4. Alignment: To the front and so aimed that the upper edge of
the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal
when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of
75 kg on the driver's seat
7. Colour: White or yellow (12/99)
Yours, Jon Dokic
The rules goeverning the position of fog lights are as follows:
Part 2 Schedule 6 (regulation 20) Requirements relating to optional
front fog lamps
1. Number- a) No requirement
2. Position- a) Longitudinal: No requirement
b) Lateral-
i) Where a pair of front fog lamps is used in conditions of seriously
reduced visibility in place of the obligatory dipped beam headlamps-
Maximum distance from side of vehicle: 400mm
ii) In all other cases: No requirement
c) Vertical-
i) Maximum height above the ground-
A) 1200mm
ii) Minimum height above the ground: No requirement
4. Alignment: To the front and so aimed that the upper edge of
the beam is, as near as practicable, 3 per cent below the horizontal
when the vehicle is at its kerbside weight and has a weight of
75 kg on the driver's seat
7. Colour: White or yellow (12/99)
Yours, Jon Dokic
When you phone the Met Office, ask them if they have any stats for how often fog causes visibility to drop below 100m (inland and below, say, 100m above sea level).
I suspect the Highway Code does not mean;
"If the weather forecast says "FOG", make sure your fog lights are on before you even open the garage door."
Having said this, you're innocent until proven guilty, so if you want to fight this, I will defend your right to do so...
I suspect the Highway Code does not mean;
"If the weather forecast says "FOG", make sure your fog lights are on before you even open the garage door."
Having said this, you're innocent until proven guilty, so if you want to fight this, I will defend your right to do so...
quote:
quote:So he's stuffed then if it says rain or drizzle?
Phone the Met office, and ask for a print out of the localised weather conditions for that area.
But I think Carls advice is worth trying if StraightSix wants to take it further. But Matt has a point about just accepting it.
I can't stand the fog lamp abusers myself, in fact had one behind me tonight that had everything ablaze, I kept flashing my rear fogs to signal him to turn his main beam off, but he just assumed I didn't want him that close and backed way off totally oblivious about his lights (it was >100M visabilty)total moron!
But as none of us were there when StraightSix was stopped it's unfair to accuse him of being in the above group.
Straightsix
I think you should go to court particularly as there no points on the table. My reason for suggesting this is because I believe all of us need to do all we can to clog up the motorist persecution system. Making this smartarse plod do all the paperwork for a court appearance well really wind the tw*t up. :
I think you should go to court particularly as there no points on the table. My reason for suggesting this is because I believe all of us need to do all we can to clog up the motorist persecution system. Making this smartarse plod do all the paperwork for a court appearance well really wind the tw*t up. :
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