Best known methods?
Discussion
What justification is there for the Police to close major roads for most of the day following an accident? The traffic cops should find a better way to manage this and put a higher priority on minimizing traffic problems. Even with minor accidents they seem to close all but one lane and mess about for hours, instead of just moving everything onto the hard shoulder and clearing up.
I have seen serious accidents on German Autobahns and they seem to be able to get things moving much faster. Maybe our plod can learn something?
I have seen serious accidents on German Autobahns and they seem to be able to get things moving much faster. Maybe our plod can learn something?
The yanks get their roads open PDQ too, even after 'injury accidents' (including deaths). You'd think that in the litigeous environment of the US, they'd want to investigate them fully ... but no.
In the UK, someone seems to want to pick over the minutiae to the nth degree.
Let's move on (literally as well as metaphorically).
Streaky
In the UK, someone seems to want to pick over the minutiae to the nth degree.
Let's move on (literally as well as metaphorically).
Streaky
There could, and usually are a million reasons why it sometimes takes what seems like ages to reopen a road following what 'seems like a tuppeny happeny pile of crap' type collision.
But one thing is that you can rest asured that while Trafpol are doing this then they wont be reporting you for speeding.
But one thing is that you can rest asured that while Trafpol are doing this then they wont be reporting you for speeding.
As one of those responsible for closing roads off, I'll try to explain what may be going on at the scene.
If it's a minor injury or damage only crash, the first thing we'll do is get the carriageway clear to allow traffic to flow again and to make it safer for ourselves to do what we need to do in a little more safety.
The problems start to arise when either the crash itself is dangerous to the rest of the public - such as a LGV gone over & dumped its load all over the place - this can take hours to clear - or more likely that the result has been either a very serious injury or fatality is involved.
As the scene manager at such a job, I'm responsible for a number of things.
As mentioned,health & safety comes into it but also we have to ensure that we secure all available evidence at the scene before we open up the road again.
When someone loses their life, or receives injuries which are likely to result in their death, the incident starts out being run as the scene of a homicide.
On many occasions, this is quickly scaled down as information is processed but sometimes it may be that someone involved may end up being charged with causing death by dangerous driving and the enquiry will now run along similar lines as a murder / manslaughter case.
As we do not have the ability to cordon off the scene like you can a house or plot of land and keep control of it for several days, we have to ensure that we get it right first time.
I know that it is inconvenient, beleive me I would rather be somewhere else too, but look at as if it was a member of your family who was the victim.
Would you prefer us to just quickly tidy up and leave you with many unanswered questions as to who caused the death / serious injury & how it happened, or would you prefer that we do our best to fully investigate it, have answers to all of the family's questions over the following months and bring to Court those responsible in the first place?
There's no easy answer and when comparing the UK to elsewhere bear in mind that many Countries still are in the situation we were in some years ago when a death on a road did not seem to justify as in depth an investigation as a death elsewhere.
If it's a minor injury or damage only crash, the first thing we'll do is get the carriageway clear to allow traffic to flow again and to make it safer for ourselves to do what we need to do in a little more safety.
The problems start to arise when either the crash itself is dangerous to the rest of the public - such as a LGV gone over & dumped its load all over the place - this can take hours to clear - or more likely that the result has been either a very serious injury or fatality is involved.
As the scene manager at such a job, I'm responsible for a number of things.
As mentioned,health & safety comes into it but also we have to ensure that we secure all available evidence at the scene before we open up the road again.
When someone loses their life, or receives injuries which are likely to result in their death, the incident starts out being run as the scene of a homicide.
On many occasions, this is quickly scaled down as information is processed but sometimes it may be that someone involved may end up being charged with causing death by dangerous driving and the enquiry will now run along similar lines as a murder / manslaughter case.
As we do not have the ability to cordon off the scene like you can a house or plot of land and keep control of it for several days, we have to ensure that we get it right first time.
I know that it is inconvenient, beleive me I would rather be somewhere else too, but look at as if it was a member of your family who was the victim.
Would you prefer us to just quickly tidy up and leave you with many unanswered questions as to who caused the death / serious injury & how it happened, or would you prefer that we do our best to fully investigate it, have answers to all of the family's questions over the following months and bring to Court those responsible in the first place?
There's no easy answer and when comparing the UK to elsewhere bear in mind that many Countries still are in the situation we were in some years ago when a death on a road did not seem to justify as in depth an investigation as a death elsewhere.
ledfoot said:
If people were to drive sensibly and safely, then roads wouldn't have to be closed in the first place 
Most accidents on motorways are caused by numpties and lorry drivers.
Why blame lorry drivers???
Twats are at the wheel of various motors, most accidents i've passed NO LORRIES
Rushjob - Thanks for the explanation - If road accidents are a crime scene, then the massive delays are not avoidable - UNLESS we have better road management - like "flexible contra flow capabilities" -or parts of the road designed to allow traffic to be routed onto the opossite lanes when needed and what about screening the scene to avoid "rubber necking"(The french police do this).
I got stuck in one of these on Friday
a449 between kidder and stourton. 2 lads in a 200sx head on into a grand vitara, all three dead at the scene, the nissan ended up in to bits with the front in a field. bringing the total up to 5 dead in to months, there is almost no hedge left on that bit of road....
accident happpened about 11:45am and the road wass still closed at 19:00 on my way back....
a449 between kidder and stourton. 2 lads in a 200sx head on into a grand vitara, all three dead at the scene, the nissan ended up in to bits with the front in a field. bringing the total up to 5 dead in to months, there is almost no hedge left on that bit of road....
accident happpened about 11:45am and the road wass still closed at 19:00 on my way back....
Graham said:
I got stuck in one of these on Friday
a449 between kidder and stourton. 2 lads in a 200sx head on into a grand vitara, all three dead at the scene, the nissan ended up in to bits with the front in a field. bringing the total up to 5 dead in to months, there is almost no hedge left on that bit of road....
accident happpened about 11:45am and the road wass still closed at 19:00 on my way back....
Being an accident blackspot, there is sure to be a camera there soon which will save everyone
VFR said:
Rushjob - Thanks for the explanation - If road accidents are a crime scene, then the massive delays are not avoidable - UNLESS we have better road management - like "flexible contra flow capabilities" -or parts of the road designed to allow traffic to be routed onto the opossite lanes when needed and what about screening the scene to avoid "rubber necking"(The french police do this).
Screening off scenes is obviously an answer to assist with the continued flow of traffic around an incident. The amount and size of the equipment required would depend on the size of the incident. Some roads incidents could be screened off very adequately and easily if the situation is not complex or over a large area.
The erection of screens takes time and requires extra vehicles and people to bring the equipment to do it properly. This has the tendancy to restrict the area even more. Screens can get in the way of technical equipment neede to extracate injured people and prevent their swift removal unless the screened area is far enough away from the people working on the victims not to be restricted by it. This in turn would reduce the area available for traffic management around the scene.
It is important at the scene for the scene manager to have an overall view of the whole situation and that includes the movement and volume of traffic around it. This would be severely hampereed if he were to keep having to go from inside the screened area to outside it.
Screening road incidents would have its advantages to stop people rubber necking. It might not assist in trafic flow because of it very nature and you will never stop individuals in some vehicles slowing down to try and see if they can get a glimpse through an opened curtain or gap in the equipment if they can.
streaky said:
The yanks get their roads open PDQ too, even after 'injury accidents' (including deaths). You'd think that in the litigeous environment of the US, they'd want to investigate them fully ... but no.
In the UK, someone seems to want to pick over the minutiae to the nth degree.
Let's move on (literally as well as metaphorically).
Streaky
My experience of the US is very Different, well in Texas it is, they close the whole highway off, especially in Fatal Incidents to which i was a witness too last year.
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