Delta F .. one for you.
Discussion
Page 8 of the Times today....
"deaths highlight police clash on speed cameras"
"
New statistics on road deaths have brought to a head opposing opinions of two chief constables about speed cameras.
One issues a speeding ticket for every seven motorists in his force's area; the other is now alone among chief constables in Britain in refusing to install speed cameras.
Motoring groups say that Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales, is a zealot who is punishing ordinary motorists with £60 fines and three penalty points for drifting just a few mph over the limit.
Road safety groups have accused Paul Garvin, the Chief Constable of Durham, of endangering lives by resisting cameras.
.....
Speeding was found to be a factor in more than half of the fatal crashes in Durham last year. Deaths rose by 56% to 42. The number of serious and slight injuries also increased, bucking the national trend, which showed a sharp decline in casualities.
North Wales saw road deaths decline by 13% lasy year, and recorded a small decline in injuries. Mr Brunstrom believes that the improvement is linked to the tripling of speed camera fines to 53,488 in North Wales last year.
"
All well and good. But, the figures are:
Durham, population: 607,000
Deaths: 42
Rate: 69.2 per million
Deaths last year: 27
Rate last year: 44.5 per million
North Wales: population 663,000
Deaths: 44
Rate: 66.3 per million
Deaths last year: 51
Rate: 77 per million
"deaths highlight police clash on speed cameras"
"
New statistics on road deaths have brought to a head opposing opinions of two chief constables about speed cameras.
One issues a speeding ticket for every seven motorists in his force's area; the other is now alone among chief constables in Britain in refusing to install speed cameras.
Motoring groups say that Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales, is a zealot who is punishing ordinary motorists with £60 fines and three penalty points for drifting just a few mph over the limit.
Road safety groups have accused Paul Garvin, the Chief Constable of Durham, of endangering lives by resisting cameras.
.....
Speeding was found to be a factor in more than half of the fatal crashes in Durham last year. Deaths rose by 56% to 42. The number of serious and slight injuries also increased, bucking the national trend, which showed a sharp decline in casualities.
North Wales saw road deaths decline by 13% lasy year, and recorded a small decline in injuries. Mr Brunstrom believes that the improvement is linked to the tripling of speed camera fines to 53,488 in North Wales last year.
"
All well and good. But, the figures are:
Durham, population: 607,000
Deaths: 42
Rate: 69.2 per million
Deaths last year: 27
Rate last year: 44.5 per million
North Wales: population 663,000
Deaths: 44
Rate: 66.3 per million
Deaths last year: 51
Rate: 77 per million
How can individual accident statistics on such a small level from one year to the next provide evidence??!! Fair enough, if there were 4000 deaths one year, and only 2000 the next in Wales, and 4000 in Durham, with 8000 the next year....
But with such small figures, still in small numbers of tens, there is gonna be variations from year to year, purely because of chance - maybe there was an icy period last year in wales, causing 10 more casualties than usual, and not this year - noting a sharp decline of 25%...
But with such small figures, still in small numbers of tens, there is gonna be variations from year to year, purely because of chance - maybe there was an icy period last year in wales, causing 10 more casualties than usual, and not this year - noting a sharp decline of 25%...
Your basis for comparison is of course nonsense. It's the cumulative miles driven during the time period in each of the counties that's the factor you need to focus on! The population has nothing to do with it. You might get an approximation if you factor in the miles of roadway in the county but just pro rating the pop is worse that the statistical heresies of the "other side".
What pi55 me off is that they quote TRL 323 and say Speed is a factor 30-50% of accidents where trl 323 says 7%...
If you ever point this out... they just say... YES.. but we factor in the other offeces where speed is a contributory factor not covered by the report.... WELL IN THAT CASE WHY DON@T THEY SAY 100%... because almost every accident that happens involves a vehicle travelling at A speed!!! even if it is a snails pase it is still moving... and if it wasn't moving it woouldn't feature in TRL 323!!!!
If you ever point this out... they just say... YES.. but we factor in the other offeces where speed is a contributory factor not covered by the report.... WELL IN THAT CASE WHY DON@T THEY SAY 100%... because almost every accident that happens involves a vehicle travelling at A speed!!! even if it is a snails pase it is still moving... and if it wasn't moving it woouldn't feature in TRL 323!!!!
I have often told the local newspapers via letters
(some published) that TRL 323, which covered the North Wales force said that speed was a contributory factor in 8.3% of North Wales accidents in the study.
(Overall, 7.3%)
Deaths in North Wales fell by 7 in 2002 with Arrive Alive vans all over the area but in 1998, deaths were down by 16 with no Arrive Alive vans.
The police authority said figures given to them by Brunstrom showed "speed" was a factor in a FRIGHTENING number of accidents so I wrote to two of them and asked to see the figures and also if they ever checked these figures in case "mistakes" had been made........No reply from either.
A letter to the the local paper from me asked Brunstrom for the figures.........no reply.
I keep pointing out that it is difficult to see how taking pictures can save lives.
(some published) that TRL 323, which covered the North Wales force said that speed was a contributory factor in 8.3% of North Wales accidents in the study.
(Overall, 7.3%)
Deaths in North Wales fell by 7 in 2002 with Arrive Alive vans all over the area but in 1998, deaths were down by 16 with no Arrive Alive vans.
The police authority said figures given to them by Brunstrom showed "speed" was a factor in a FRIGHTENING number of accidents so I wrote to two of them and asked to see the figures and also if they ever checked these figures in case "mistakes" had been made........No reply from either.
A letter to the the local paper from me asked Brunstrom for the figures.........no reply.
I keep pointing out that it is difficult to see how taking pictures can save lives.
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