The hard shoulder
Discussion
When/what are the correct reasons to use the hard shoulder?
Following on from previous threads what would be conceived as a genuine emergency?
Correct me if I am wrong but, I remember reading about a lorry driver who stopped on the hard shoulder to tie down his load. He was prosecuted as the police said it was his responsibility to ensure his load was secure before he joined the m/way. The same could be said about any car that breaksdown. Eg the car overheats, the driver should ensure there is enough water befor joining the motoway?
Following on from previous threads what would be conceived as a genuine emergency?
Correct me if I am wrong but, I remember reading about a lorry driver who stopped on the hard shoulder to tie down his load. He was prosecuted as the police said it was his responsibility to ensure his load was secure before he joined the m/way. The same could be said about any car that breaksdown. Eg the car overheats, the driver should ensure there is enough water befor joining the motoway?
Basically an emergency is what you would consider to be an emergency. If you were challenged by a Police officer about why you were stopped, then you may have to take it to a court to find out if they agree with his opinion of your problem.
Emergencies are not.
Stopping for a 'P'
Stopping for a 'BJ' although the couple indulging that I caught explained that it most definately was and was ultimately safer than doing so whilst travelling at 70mph
Stopping to tie your load down (insecure load is an ofence in itself and is one of strict liablilty, so both driver and owner get done and there are penalty points attached too).
Anything else which has the likleyhood of causing you a dangerous problem may be considered an emergency.
Don't forget that stopping on the hard shoulder is potentially dangerous in itself. You are no more than possibly 4 feet from sudden and violent death.
Hard shoulders are only 10 feet wide.
If you have to stop on one, get as far over to the nearside as you can.
Do not stand near the offside of the vehicle under any circumstances and if a you have an offside puncture, get the nearside onto the verge if you can before attempting to change it.
If you have a passenger, get them to stand at the rear of the vehicle and act as a spotter to shout if necessary to you to watch the approaching traffic.
If you have to change it alone, angle the car so that it has some degree of protection for you (i.e. the front further onto the verge than the rear) and change the wheel so you can see the approaching traffic as well.
Be careful of the gravel strip along the edge of the carriageway, especially if you are in a heavy vehicle. This is a French drain and is about 5 feet deep. If you spin your wheels you will sink and it is likely to sink anyway after parking for some time on top of it.
If you
Hard shoulders on right hand bends are especially dangerous as LGV's tend to drift over the marginal strip onto the hard shoulder itself.
If you have to stay for any lenght of time, get out of the car and sit on the embankment well away from the carriageway and your vehicle if you can. If possible get behind some Armco barrier. If it is raining or cold or both, then sit in the passenger seat (if alone) with your seat belt on and pu on your hazard lights.
Leave lights on if they work and it is dark or inclement weather. If you do not, and leave the vehicle, it will be removed immediately with £135 towing cahrge attached to it. Vehicles left with lights showing and unattended get 4 hours before removal.
If you are at all concerned, use a motorway phone for help. These are evry mile and the nearest one will be shown by an arrow on the marker post at the edge of the verge (every 100 meters). If you need help to change a wheel, a Traffic patrol vehicle will be dispatched to assist you.
Do not attempt to fix any problem or work on the car from the offside. Do everything from the nearside and keep looking at the traffic approaching you.
Get off the hard shoulder as quickly as you can and do so safely by using the hard shoulder as an acceleration lane until you are travelling at the speed of the traffic in lane 1 before you pull into it. Be careful of any debris that may be present as you gain speed and at night, be aware that there may beany other cars which may be stopped without lights on the hard shoulder.
Hard shoulders are very dangerous places. If you can avoid an emergency and end up stopped there, do so before you really do have one!
Emergencies are not.
Stopping for a 'P'
Stopping for a 'BJ' although the couple indulging that I caught explained that it most definately was and was ultimately safer than doing so whilst travelling at 70mph
Stopping to tie your load down (insecure load is an ofence in itself and is one of strict liablilty, so both driver and owner get done and there are penalty points attached too).
Anything else which has the likleyhood of causing you a dangerous problem may be considered an emergency.
Don't forget that stopping on the hard shoulder is potentially dangerous in itself. You are no more than possibly 4 feet from sudden and violent death.
Hard shoulders are only 10 feet wide.
If you have to stop on one, get as far over to the nearside as you can.
Do not stand near the offside of the vehicle under any circumstances and if a you have an offside puncture, get the nearside onto the verge if you can before attempting to change it.
If you have a passenger, get them to stand at the rear of the vehicle and act as a spotter to shout if necessary to you to watch the approaching traffic.
If you have to change it alone, angle the car so that it has some degree of protection for you (i.e. the front further onto the verge than the rear) and change the wheel so you can see the approaching traffic as well.
Be careful of the gravel strip along the edge of the carriageway, especially if you are in a heavy vehicle. This is a French drain and is about 5 feet deep. If you spin your wheels you will sink and it is likely to sink anyway after parking for some time on top of it.
If you
Hard shoulders on right hand bends are especially dangerous as LGV's tend to drift over the marginal strip onto the hard shoulder itself.
If you have to stay for any lenght of time, get out of the car and sit on the embankment well away from the carriageway and your vehicle if you can. If possible get behind some Armco barrier. If it is raining or cold or both, then sit in the passenger seat (if alone) with your seat belt on and pu on your hazard lights.
Leave lights on if they work and it is dark or inclement weather. If you do not, and leave the vehicle, it will be removed immediately with £135 towing cahrge attached to it. Vehicles left with lights showing and unattended get 4 hours before removal.
If you are at all concerned, use a motorway phone for help. These are evry mile and the nearest one will be shown by an arrow on the marker post at the edge of the verge (every 100 meters). If you need help to change a wheel, a Traffic patrol vehicle will be dispatched to assist you.
Do not attempt to fix any problem or work on the car from the offside. Do everything from the nearside and keep looking at the traffic approaching you.
Get off the hard shoulder as quickly as you can and do so safely by using the hard shoulder as an acceleration lane until you are travelling at the speed of the traffic in lane 1 before you pull into it. Be careful of any debris that may be present as you gain speed and at night, be aware that there may beany other cars which may be stopped without lights on the hard shoulder.
Hard shoulders are very dangerous places. If you can avoid an emergency and end up stopped there, do so before you really do have one!
So madcop what do you do if you are gagging for a 'P' and no turn off or services are due for miles.
You are that desperate that it is affecting your concentration? Is it not better to stop so you can then continue your journey with full concentration or do teh poice recommend you p**s yourself?
Mayve it's just my bladder, but with the roof down and a cool wind it can suddenly come on!!!! esp after a few iced lemonades which can go through you like no tommorrow.
You are that desperate that it is affecting your concentration? Is it not better to stop so you can then continue your journey with full concentration or do teh poice recommend you p**s yourself?
Mayve it's just my bladder, but with the roof down and a cool wind it can suddenly come on!!!! esp after a few iced lemonades which can go through you like no tommorrow.
madcop said:
Stopping for a 'BJ' although the couple indulging that I caught explained that it most definately was and was ultimately safer than doing so whilst travelling at 70mph
Wasn't that infamous case was it? Oh can't have been she denied it!
madcop said:
Stopping to tie your load down (insecure load is an ofence in itself and is one of strict liablilty, so both driver and owner get done and there are penalty points attached too).
Isn't there a slight conundrum in this? After all stopping to ensure the load is secure is presumably a lot safer than carrying on and having it fly off on the motorway? If I was following a lorry whose driver was concerned the load might have become insecure I'd certainly prefer it if he stopped and checked rather than having it dumped on the carriageway in front of me!
So in the real world if a driver stops to check his load his secure do you actually always charge him/her, or does it depend on whether the load is insecure and how insecure it is?
Otherwise your points are common sense, however I know from what I see whilst out and about many people don't seem to have any commonsense!
Chrisgr31 said:
Stopping for a 'BJ' although the couple indulging that I caught explained that it most definately was and was ultimately safer than doing so whilst travelling at 70mph
Wasn't that infamous case was it? Oh can't have been she denied it!
madcop said:
Stopping to tie your load down (insecure load is an ofence in itself and is one of strict liablilty, so both driver and owner get done and there are penalty points attached too).
Isn't there a slight conundrum in this? After all stopping to ensure the load is secure is presumably a lot safer than carrying on and having it fly off on the motorway? If I was following a lorry whose driver was concerned the load might have become insecure I'd certainly prefer it if he stopped and checked rather than having it dumped on the carriageway in front of me!
Yes - I'd like to query that one. My uncle owns a tipper for his building work and (very) occasionally has to stop on the hard shoulder to tighten up his load cover after it's no doubt been blown about by the high winds on the M4 over the bridges in Swansea.
Surely that's recommended by the BiB is the load as become less secure during the journey due to the weather?
wanty1974 said:
Yes - I'd like to query that one. My uncle owns a tipper for his building work and (very) occasionally has to stop on the hard shoulder to tighten up his load cover after it's no doubt been blown about by the high winds on the M4 over the bridges in Swansea.
Surely that's recommended by the BiB is the load as become less secure during the journey due to the weather?
Its a stated case. Securing a shifted load is not an emergency. The courts take the view that it should not have shifted in the first place and stopping to adjust it is more of a danger than to carry on. Dont' ask me their logic behind this. In my view if something is to fall off a vehicle it is likely to cause more of a danger than it is if the vehicle carrying it is properly adjusted when stopped.
However if you are talking about large goods vehicles, the hard dhoulder is only 10 feet wide. Most of these vehicles take up nearly all 10 feet. It is most unwise to attempt to adjust this problem if it means you have to work at all on the offside because this will mean standing in the carriageway.
If this problem is encountered it is wiser to either reduce speed considerably and leave at the next available exit to adjust the problem or to stop and use the motorway phone for assistance. Most Trafpol will not bother to issue FPT if they are called to assist. They may well do so if they happen across someone standing in the middle of lane 1 trying to throw ropes over to the opposite side of the trialer or flat bed or long lengths are flicking into lane 1 as they are projected from the nearside of the vehicle.
The BJ incident wasn't the infamous one
Most things may be common sense to PHrs regarding hard shoulders but only as long ago as last week I stopped a middle aged chap in a new X-type Jag and gave him the benefit of my wisdom
without the paperwork 
. He was stopped from behind and therefore blocked my access to show him how to leave the hard shoulder properly and safely. My brain worked thus.
He is middle aged and driving an expensive car.
He is articulate and dressed in the manner of a person who has done well in the world of business.
He is an intelligent man and even though he is as blind as a bat and understands the impact of being so in the presence of EIIR's representitive.
WHY THEN DID YOU FAIL TO TAKE ON ANY ADVICE ABOUT HOW TO LEAVE THE HARD SHOULDER AND EXPECT YOUR EXPENSIVE CAR TO ACCELERATE TO 60MPH IN LESS THAN 3 SECONDS WITH 38 TONS BEARING DOWN ON YOU? 
All my preconceptions about him having a brain to be in the situation he was with me (car,clothes, laptop, status???) vanished. Perhaps he was a lottery winner. He nearly had the word AINACS firmly stamped in the rear of the X-type 
as I sat shaking my head in disbelief. He was indicating though 
How can someone not understand the simple words. "Leaving the hard shoulder can be hazardous. Make sure you build up your speed by accelerating on the hard shoulder up to the speed of the traffic in lane 1 before you select a gap and move out into lane 1. Be careful as there is sometimes debris on the hard shoulder that could damage your car", How can they not?
This is by no means an unusual occurrance either and by both men as well as women!
>> Edited by madcop on Tuesday 16th September 11:54
The only time I've ever had to stop on the hard shoulder was when my girlfriend found she needed to be urgently and copiously "travel sick" after some drinks. I was not best pleased at being put in the dangerous situation, but could I have have also picked up some points for using the hard shoulder innappropriately? Or is 
ing treated differently to peeing?
ing treated differently to peeing?Bonce said:
The only time I've ever had to stop on the hard shoulder was when my girlfriend found she needed to be urgently and copiously "travel sick" after some drinks. I was not best pleased at being put in the dangerous situation, but could I have have also picked up some points for using the hard shoulder innappropriately? Or is
Yes. I think that vomitting would be classed as an emergency because it is something that can quite easily just happen withint seconds of feeling OK.
Peeing is not an emergency because most people have a mechanism inside them that tells them that their bladder is becoming full. This is easily moinitored by the individual and there are not too many stretches of Motorway that do not have exits within 10-20 miles or so. The thought behind it is that if you feel the need to pee, then get off the Motorway at the earliest opportunity and do so. Don't risk stretching it for another junction, then another, until the pain becomes unbearable.
If you are stuck in stationary traffic due to an incident, it is a different matter entirely. Make use of the nearby bushes etc but be careful about the hard shoulder as often in these cases, emergency vehicles will be using the hard shoulder at reasonable speed and also many impatient nurds will do so who will not be prepared for people coming out of the bushes with splashed shoes.
>> Edited by madcop on Tuesday 16th September 12:45
madcop said:
He nearly had the word AINACS firmly stamped in the rear of the X-type
Madcop, very informative as usual, as seems to be the case with most (if not all - (for fear of backlash)) of your posts but I like the way you throw in the humour while still getting your point across.
It's like, we're all friends and can have a laugh and a beer... but if you
up, you're going down for a long long time.... :thumbup:
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