Pissed at Plod today!
Discussion
Got back off me hols on Sunday, nice n relaxed, and didn't notice that my girlfriends car wasn't there. We live in a residential through-way, where parking is permitted on one side of the road only (marked off from the road). She was parked about 4 doors down from home.
So later in the week I went looking for it, but it wasn't anywhere to be seen .........
So I phoned the Police to report it stolen, and it turns out they've towed it away for causing an obstruction FFS!. Its a 9 months old, company-supplied hire car, taxed and insured and it was parked within the marked lane, and not on the pavement. The bill currently stands at £294 +£12 a day til we go and pick it up, for which I need proof of ownership and some cash(!).
Turns out someone had a skip delivered while we were away (after we'd parked the car), and decided that our car was in the way when they wanted the skip removed, so had our car towed to get access to the skip!!
Now my question is - who should pay for our car to be returned - and has anyone acted illegally? Right now I'm ready to mash some heads and if I find out who which neighbour it was they're gonna get their ass sued if I end up paying....
So later in the week I went looking for it, but it wasn't anywhere to be seen .........
So I phoned the Police to report it stolen, and it turns out they've towed it away for causing an obstruction FFS!. Its a 9 months old, company-supplied hire car, taxed and insured and it was parked within the marked lane, and not on the pavement. The bill currently stands at £294 +£12 a day til we go and pick it up, for which I need proof of ownership and some cash(!).
Turns out someone had a skip delivered while we were away (after we'd parked the car), and decided that our car was in the way when they wanted the skip removed, so had our car towed to get access to the skip!!
Now my question is - who should pay for our car to be returned - and has anyone acted illegally? Right now I'm ready to mash some heads and if I find out who which neighbour it was they're gonna get their ass sued if I end up paying....
mondeoman said:I thought skip firms had to notify the council beforehand and that permissions had to be granted and notices served (that's what happened to me ... but perhaps it's an individual council thing) - Streaky
[snip]Turns out someone had a skip delivered while we were away (after we'd parked the car), and decided that our car was in the way when they wanted the skip removed, so had our car towed to get access to the skip!!
Now my question is - who should pay for our car to be returned - and has anyone acted illegally? Right now I'm ready to mash some heads and if I find out who which neighbour it was they're gonna get their ass sued if I end up paying....
streaky said:
I thought skip firms had to notify the council beforehand and that permissions had to be granted and notices served (that's what happened to me ... but perhaps it's an individual council thing) - Streaky
There is specific legislation covering skips. It is a legal requirement to get authorisation in writing from the local council if it is to be left on a road (the road goes from hedge to hedge and includes the verges) and the hirer becomes the owner whilst it is outside the premises, becoming reponsible for safety and correct lighting.
madcop said:
streaky said:
I thought skip firms had to notify the council beforehand and that permissions had to be granted and notices served (that's what happened to me ... but perhaps it's an individual council thing) - Streaky
There is specific legislation covering skips. It is a legal requirement to get authorisation in writing from the local council if it is to be left on a road (the road goes from hedge to hedge and includes the verges) and the hirer becomes the owner whilst it is outside the premises, becoming reponsible for safety and correct lighting.
If a skip is to be placed on a public highway it must be licensed by the local highway authority and the relevant fees paid in advance. The site would be checked and approved beforehand by the highway authority. The skip owner must have public liability insurance and meet the conditions of the license (cones lamps etc). Normally the Skip company apply for the license and maintain the correct license conditions for it (cones,lamps etc). I imagine the skip co. pass on the license costs etc. Residents don't generally have public liability insurance or a supply of cones and lamps.
Any problems with a skip (dangerous location, not lamped) the first point of call would be the skip company.
Resident overfilling etc I dunno...
>> Edited by dimmadan on Friday 19th September 18:18
The regulations allow Police or other statutory body to make a street to street removal, i.e. to move your car sufficiently to obviate the obstruction. You might ask why they did not use that facility.
HOWEVER - there is ample case law to show that a vehicle parked on the highway is causing an obstruction and the only question is whether it is 'unneccessary'. To leave a car for a week or so in one position could well be enough on its own to prove unneccessary.
Derek
HOWEVER - there is ample case law to show that a vehicle parked on the highway is causing an obstruction and the only question is whether it is 'unneccessary'. To leave a car for a week or so in one position could well be enough on its own to prove unneccessary.
Derek
Derek Smith said:
HOWEVER - there is ample case law to show that a vehicle parked on the highway is causing an obstruction and the only question is whether it is 'unneccessary'. To leave a car for a week or so in one position could well be enough on its own to prove unneccessary.
Derek
So I am legally required to use my car more than once a fortnight?
I fail to see how impounding a car that was not causing an obstruction to the delivery of said skip is acting in good faith. Why wasn't the car simply moved out of the way as it wasn't illegaly parked in the first place? Perhaps there are other factors that haven;'t been brought to light, but if not it sounds very much like the BIB have gone way over the top.
You just know that the skip company won't be interested in the slightest.
You just know that the skip company won't be interested in the slightest.
Mondeoman.
I understand you are upset, but why at the Police? All they have done is reacted to a complaint from someone and resolved the problem by removing the cause for complaint.
Having a vehicle registered to a company or lease hire company may be very convenient in some respects but has the disadvantage of making it hard for Police to resolve a simple problem quickly and without too much drama.
If a vehicle is registered to a private individual and there is a problem with it, then a simple R/O check will reveal an address where an enquiry can be made there or with neighbours. If the problem is within 'out of office hours', there is no chance of finding or obtaining the information as lease companies an company owners are not available to pass the information on to Police.
Your gripe should be with the people that made the complaint or as Silverback Mike states, the skip company.
What would you have done in circumstances where you had been inconvenienced (obstructed) by someones car who was not available for 2 weeks or longer? I suspect you would phone the Police and demand that some action to relieve your stress would be immediately forthcoming from the Police
I understand you are upset, but why at the Police? All they have done is reacted to a complaint from someone and resolved the problem by removing the cause for complaint.
Having a vehicle registered to a company or lease hire company may be very convenient in some respects but has the disadvantage of making it hard for Police to resolve a simple problem quickly and without too much drama.
If a vehicle is registered to a private individual and there is a problem with it, then a simple R/O check will reveal an address where an enquiry can be made there or with neighbours. If the problem is within 'out of office hours', there is no chance of finding or obtaining the information as lease companies an company owners are not available to pass the information on to Police.
Your gripe should be with the people that made the complaint or as Silverback Mike states, the skip company.
What would you have done in circumstances where you had been inconvenienced (obstructed) by someones car who was not available for 2 weeks or longer? I suspect you would phone the Police and demand that some action to relieve your stress would be immediately forthcoming from the Police
Looks like another police revenue generating scheme to me.
If the vehicle was parked correctly then why would the Police impound it and start the meter running? OK I agree that removing the car so that others could go about their business seems a good way of resolving the problem described. But to then start charging for storage is outrageous, but predictable in these times.
If the vehicle was parked correctly then why would the Police impound it and start the meter running? OK I agree that removing the car so that others could go about their business seems a good way of resolving the problem described. But to then start charging for storage is outrageous, but predictable in these times.
hut49 said:
Looks like another police revenue generating scheme to me.
If the vehicle was parked correctly then why would the Police impound it and start the meter running? OK I agree that removing the car so that others could go about their business seems a good way of resolving the problem described. But to then start charging for storage is outrageous, but predictable in these times.
Before making sweeping generalisations, you need to know about the system of vehicle recovery.
Other than in the Metropolitan areas, where vehicle clamping squads operate, police forces do not have the room or the facilities to store the hundreds of vehicles that are removed for a variety of reasons.
Most forces run a vehicle recovery scheme where they have a number of registered garages which operate on a strict rota basis to collect damaged and abandoned/obstructive vehicles. There is a standard fixed fee for this service that the garages charge the Police. The Police pay this and forward it on to the owner of the vehicle with some admin charges attached. Any subsequent storage charge is that imposed by the garage removing the vehicle and is nothing to do with revenue for the police. It is a business transaction through official channels to assist the Police with keeping the roads safe alone. Any profit is made purely by the private contractor that carries out the work at the request of the force that employs it to do so.
Mr2Mike said:
I fail to see how impounding a car that was not causing an obstruction to the delivery of said skip is acting in good faith. Why wasn't the car simply moved out of the way as it wasn't illegaly parked in the first place? Perhaps there are other factors that haven;'t been brought to light, but if not it sounds very much like the BIB have gone way over the top.
You just know that the skip company won't be interested in the slightest.
If it wasnt obstructing anything then it would not have been moved.
Street to street (ie moving it out of the way) is not an option in our force, too many "The Plods moved my car 6 feet and reduced it to scrap metal" stories.
Incidentally, the police recieve nothing for obstruction removals, not a penny. They are a pain in the arse to attend to, as the officer has to hang around dealing with quite frankly is a crap job when other decent things could be done....(I stand by for lots of "making money catching speeders comments!" If your car was parked correctly, the skip arriving caused an obstruction, it is them you need to have a go at. Hence my earlier comments. Trust me, if there had not been a problem, your car would not have been moved. Either that or your neighbours are stitching you up and bumped your car causing an obstruction.
As has already been pointed out above if they delivered the skip after the car was parked then they could have collected it. It would not have taken too much detective work to come to that conclusion. What has probably happened is that a decent driver delivered it and a crap one went to collect it and did not fancy his chances.
I cannot see how someone can be worse off financially for parking a car correctly and not being there 24/7 to move it if someone wants you to. If the Police decide to move a car that is parked legally for whatever reason they should either put it back where they moved it from or foot the bill.
Ivan
I cannot see how someone can be worse off financially for parking a car correctly and not being there 24/7 to move it if someone wants you to. If the Police decide to move a car that is parked legally for whatever reason they should either put it back where they moved it from or foot the bill.
Ivan
madcop said:
Looks like another police revenue generating scheme to me.
If the vehicle was parked correctly then why would the Police impound it and start the meter running? OK I agree that removing the car so that others could go about their business seems a good way of resolving the problem described. But to then start charging for storage is outrageous, but predictable in these times.
Before making sweeping generalisations, you need to know about the system of vehicle recovery.
Other than in the Metropolitan areas, where vehicle clamping squads operate, police forces do not have the room or the facilities to store the hundreds of vehicles that are removed for a variety of reasons.
Most forces run a vehicle recovery scheme where they have a number of registered garages which operate on a strict rota basis to collect damaged and abandoned/obstructive vehicles. There is a standard fixed fee for this service that the garages charge the Police. The Police pay this and forward it on to the owner of the vehicle with some admin charges attached. Any subsequent storage charge is that imposed by the garage removing the vehicle and is nothing to do with revenue for the police. It is a business transaction through official channels to assist the Police with keeping the roads safe alone. Any profit is made purely by the private contractor that carries out the work at the request of the force that employs it to do so.
That's the thing about sweeping generalisations - you don't need (want) all the facts before making them. So, let's go to the next level, if the car was parked correctly why should the police line the pockets of a contractor by removing the car into a revenue-generating enterprise rather than moving it down the road?
ribol said:
As has already been pointed out above if they delivered the skip after the car was parked then they could have collected it. It would not have taken too much detective work to come to that conclusion. What has probably happened is that a decent driver delivered it and a crap one went to collect it and did not fancy his chances.
I cannot see how someone can be worse off financially for parking a car correctly and not being there 24/7 to move it if someone wants you to. If the Police decide to move a car that is parked legally for whatever reason they should either put it back where they moved it from or foot the bill.
Ivan
And as I have quoted, the police responded to a call, which was that a vehicle was causing an obstruction. Not much detective work indeed.
The complaint was re. the car, not the skip.
If the complainant was dripping about the skip, then that would have been moved.
We don't have the full facts, I wasn't there. But having dealt with thousands of obstructions, there is always a reason for removal. Trust me, if it were me, and the skip was a problem, I would be straight onto the skip co, telling them to move it immediately or that would be removed.
Likewise the car, if the registered keeper was in, a knock on the door and friendly advice generally suffices.
Common sense usually prevails. And as you point out, does not need much detective work. But then neither does parking a car / skip correctly.
Mondeoman - nothing aimed at you personally, I understand the angst.
Mike.
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