Complicated - Law relating to Learner Motorcycles
Discussion
I remember back in the dim and distant past...when i was 16 i could legally ride a moped with L plates.
When i was 17 i could ride a Motorcycle upto 250cc again with Learner plates and then when i had passed my Test i could then go and ride anything that i wanted too.
Nowadays the Law is very complicated in relation to what you can ride, at what age, and then what power output then ultimately what you can ride once you have passed the test on a particular engine size etc.
A lot of Police have difficulty with the various pieces of legislation so i should imagine that the public are even more confused!
Do you think that it is indeed too complicated and should we return to the simple method as in a few years ago?
When i was 17 i could ride a Motorcycle upto 250cc again with Learner plates and then when i had passed my Test i could then go and ride anything that i wanted too.
Nowadays the Law is very complicated in relation to what you can ride, at what age, and then what power output then ultimately what you can ride once you have passed the test on a particular engine size etc.
A lot of Police have difficulty with the various pieces of legislation so i should imagine that the public are even more confused!
Do you think that it is indeed too complicated and should we return to the simple method as in a few years ago?
In my opinion, anything that gets kids onto mopeds with little or no training is really a mistake - they are doing their damndest to kill themselves at the moment, and that is (presumably) after doing CBT!
I would favour them having to pass some more advanced test (+ a theory test?) before they can go out on the road unaccompanied.
I would favour them having to pass some more advanced test (+ a theory test?) before they can go out on the road unaccompanied.
tonyrec said:
I think that this is a slightly different problem.
The amount of kids (12-14 yr olds) riding stolen mopeds...is turning into an epidemic and is certainly the most popular way of killing or seriously injuring themselves.
[Devilsadvocate] Is that a problem?[/Devilsadvocate]
As an aside Tony, since the Kengestion Charge came in are you having to deal with more moped accidents?
Do you believe this increase is costing more in your/ambulance/fire service time than they are generating with the charge?
As a commuter into town the incidence of these 'flies' seems to be higher and higher and it cant be long until people start coming a cropper if they havent already.
Do you believe this increase is costing more in your/ambulance/fire service time than they are generating with the charge?
As a commuter into town the incidence of these 'flies' seems to be higher and higher and it cant be long until people start coming a cropper if they havent already.
john_p said:
In my opinion, anything that gets kids onto mopeds with little or no training is really a mistake - they are doing their damndest to kill themselves at the moment, and that is (presumably) after doing CBT!
I would favour them having to pass some more advanced test (+ a theory test?) before they can go out on the road unaccompanied.
I think this does little good. It would be a bit like making advanced driving compulsory, and I see no scope for improvement with that. I vote for the graduated danger discovery method of teaching, kinda like darwinian with a smiley face.
I passed by motorcycle test at the time when it was accepted to go from moped to yamaha LC 250. 30mph to 110mph. I think money causes most people to progress more slowly. I used to fall off my moped with devastating regularity and alway used to carry a set of mole grips to straighten out my footpegs with. I rarely believed I could hurt myself coming off at 30pmh and demonstrated the fact almost to order.
I'm sure the bumps bruises taught me slowly over time. But we live in a different world now where if you come off you are likely to have the numpty behind in her four wheel drive tank driving over you without even noticing. No time to learn, and a much less forgiving road.
For the longest time now I've thought we live in a society where motorcycles are as dangerous as handguns, and they were banned weren't they.
:deep breath:
I would leave the training to the parents cos they are the ones who ultimately fund the thing and take responsibility for the loss. If they believe their child is incapable they only have to withdraw the petrol money. If not they take the major pain of the loss. Once the child can afford these things themselves then no one should assume responsibily for the way they live their life.
:exhale:
Hi Tony, to get back to your original question.
Yes I do think the current laws are too complex. All this passing your test in different ways at different ages giving you different rights as to what you can ride.
Plus the BHP restriction for some people. This must be really difficult to Police as there is no way (without a dyno check) to be certain that a machine is restricted - what is the difference between a restricted CBR600, a normal CBR600 and a restricted CBR600 that has been de-restricted at home? Well my guess is not alot to the eye, or ear. So how can you Police it? You check paperwork but how do you know that it is still relevant?
Yes I do think the current laws are too complex. All this passing your test in different ways at different ages giving you different rights as to what you can ride.
Plus the BHP restriction for some people. This must be really difficult to Police as there is no way (without a dyno check) to be certain that a machine is restricted - what is the difference between a restricted CBR600, a normal CBR600 and a restricted CBR600 that has been de-restricted at home? Well my guess is not alot to the eye, or ear. So how can you Police it? You check paperwork but how do you know that it is still relevant?
simplify. No rules. If he can touch the pegs fine.icamm said:
Plus the BHP restriction for some people. This must be really difficult to Police as there is no way (without a dyno check) to be certain that a machine is restricted - what is the difference between a restricted CBR600, a normal CBR600 and a restricted CBR600 that has been de-restricted at home? Well my guess is not alot to the eye, or ear. So how can you Police it? You check paperwork but how do you know that it is still relevant?
Yes it is very difficult and 99% impossible to Police.
I say,"Lets go back to the old system"
You're probably right going back to the old system.
Even when you put all riders through the CBT system and then let them out on the road with 'L' plates, it's frightening to watch some of the younger ones on the roads - as they must think that they're invincible with the plates on.
The older ones at least often have more road sense especially if they've been driving cars for a while.
Even when you put all riders through the CBT system and then let them out on the road with 'L' plates, it's frightening to watch some of the younger ones on the roads - as they must think that they're invincible with the plates on.
The older ones at least often have more road sense especially if they've been driving cars for a while.
I agree that the current law is very complicated, bring back the old (or something as simple) system.
Incidentally I started riding bikes in Italy, their system is (was) thus; at 14yrs you can ride a 50cc (no licence needed), at 16 up to a 125cc (after passing a test), at 18 up to a 350cc, at 21 unlimited. Seems sensible to me! and since the car driving age is 18 (and then limited to low powered cars until 21) most people have a few years of moped/scooter riding before driving a car and so have some awareness of vulnerable road users.
Incidentally I started riding bikes in Italy, their system is (was) thus; at 14yrs you can ride a 50cc (no licence needed), at 16 up to a 125cc (after passing a test), at 18 up to a 350cc, at 21 unlimited. Seems sensible to me! and since the car driving age is 18 (and then limited to low powered cars until 21) most people have a few years of moped/scooter riding before driving a car and so have some awareness of vulnerable road users.
its not complicated its a joke.
mopeds are one of the most dangerous thing on the bloody road.
too bloody slow to ride in a safe position with out getting splatered by a truck.
and not fast enougth too get out of the way when a nummtie does what a numtie does.
as for learning to ride a bike a small peaky light weight two stroke that you have to rev the bollocks of to get it too go. is the larst thing you want to learn on.
best idear would be to have learners learn on a heavyer more stable 4 stroke say limited to 60 or so BHP
and before they get on the road some beter basic traing to handel it. and some deasent lessions in observation.
so they know youy need eyeballs sticking out of you arss, to ride a bike and avoid the all there morrons
some basic maintanence of bike would all so be a good idear.
form the amount of kids i seenm that dont knoe how to ajust a chaing.
come out of the house onece too see the nabors kid with the back wheel off hammering the chain.
so i said what you doing he says i qoute "the chains to long so im taking some links out"
so i had a quick look at it for him while explaing it aint a push bike and he needs a new chain and a set of sprokets at half the teeth on his are missing and the ones that are left were bent to hell.
plus it woull help if it had a full messur of brake fluid insead of air in the brake system, it mite stop a bit beter.
from what iv seen basic maintance of bikes seem a real broblem with yongsters on bikes
I was lucky as I grew up around bikes and could rebuild a T160 by the time i got me first bike.
one thing what used bug me was in my day at 17 you couldent get to the end of the
street with out getting pulled over by a bib for some bullshit reson.
sterange thing was you could nick a brand new car and parking outside the plod station with out them bothering you.
try too be all legal on a small bike and get pulled over every five mins for nothing.
I wonder if the bibs still harass learners like they used too ?
even had one try to nick me for nicking me own bike.
so after getting constanly harassed/followed all over the place for no reson colecting 2 or 3 produsers a week.
for doing nothing worung,so
I trew the lisence in the bin got a biger bike and got pocket full of stick on numbers and road for years like that in peace, with out harrasment
strange thing was on a biger bike they never used too bother me at all
If it had not been for the harrsment as a learner if would have happly rode legaly, like I was in the first place.
>> Edited by outlaw on Tuesday 23 September 08:09
mopeds are one of the most dangerous thing on the bloody road.
too bloody slow to ride in a safe position with out getting splatered by a truck.
and not fast enougth too get out of the way when a nummtie does what a numtie does.
as for learning to ride a bike a small peaky light weight two stroke that you have to rev the bollocks of to get it too go. is the larst thing you want to learn on.
best idear would be to have learners learn on a heavyer more stable 4 stroke say limited to 60 or so BHP
and before they get on the road some beter basic traing to handel it. and some deasent lessions in observation.
so they know youy need eyeballs sticking out of you arss, to ride a bike and avoid the all there morrons
some basic maintanence of bike would all so be a good idear.
form the amount of kids i seenm that dont knoe how to ajust a chaing.
come out of the house onece too see the nabors kid with the back wheel off hammering the chain.
so i said what you doing he says i qoute "the chains to long so im taking some links out"
so i had a quick look at it for him while explaing it aint a push bike and he needs a new chain and a set of sprokets at half the teeth on his are missing and the ones that are left were bent to hell.
plus it woull help if it had a full messur of brake fluid insead of air in the brake system, it mite stop a bit beter.
from what iv seen basic maintance of bikes seem a real broblem with yongsters on bikes
I was lucky as I grew up around bikes and could rebuild a T160 by the time i got me first bike.
one thing what used bug me was in my day at 17 you couldent get to the end of the
street with out getting pulled over by a bib for some bullshit reson. sterange thing was you could nick a brand new car and parking outside the plod station with out them bothering you.
try too be all legal on a small bike and get pulled over every
five mins for nothing. I wonder if the bibs still harass learners like they used too ?
even had one try to nick me for nicking me own bike.
so after getting constanly harassed/followed all over the place for no reson colecting 2 or 3 produsers a week.
for doing nothing worung,so
I trew the lisence in the bin got a biger bike and got pocket full of stick on numbers and road for years like that in peace, with out harrasment
strange thing was on a biger bike they never used too bother me at all
If it had not been for the harrsment as a learner if would have happly rode legaly, like I was in the first place.
>> Edited by outlaw on Tuesday 23 September 08:09
alans said:
Tony
In the dim and distant past you could also ride an unlimited engine capacity motorcycle with "L" plates as long as it had a sidecar attached.
Todays m/cycle laws are far to complex.
i rember the daft sidwinder things. My m8 forgot his was there and riped it off his GSXR1100 on a roundabout.
nearly recking the bike in the prosses.
the laws were a joke then.
>> Edited by outlaw on Tuesday 23 September 08:51
by the way anyone whats the law on sidecars now.
they used to provide hours of entertainment for old bikers watching.
learners try a bike and fixed side car for the first time.
I bet there aint many left that even know how too ride one, theas days
>> Edited by outlaw on Tuesday 23 September 08:55
Slightly different question - but still relates to Motorbikes and licences.
Just about to complete my DAS training. Hold a full car licence (8 years) 3 pts (Damn Talivans)
I understand that under the new driver restrictions - I have to be incredibly careful how many points I get in the next x months. What I have missed is does that only apply to the bike or also to the car ? Not that I wish to collect points at all of course !
Many thanks,
Steve
Just about to complete my DAS training. Hold a full car licence (8 years) 3 pts (Damn Talivans)
I understand that under the new driver restrictions - I have to be incredibly careful how many points I get in the next x months. What I have missed is does that only apply to the bike or also to the car ? Not that I wish to collect points at all of course !
Many thanks,
Steve
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