Discussion
this experience, i was hoping that someone could give a general rundown of events during the proceedings to get an idea of what goes on etc in court. 
Maybe he needs to know more stuff like;-
* how to interrupt respectfully
* how to address the judge
* how to cross question the prosecution
* how to plead mitigation
* how to appear humble and in fear of the law
Actually the last one is quite easy, but I'm sure we could all do with the benefit of more information regarding the other points!!!
Anyone knows this stuff, please reply.
* how to interrupt respectfully
* how to address the judge
* how to cross question the prosecution
* how to plead mitigation
* how to appear humble and in fear of the law
Actually the last one is quite easy, but I'm sure we could all do with the benefit of more information regarding the other points!!!
Anyone knows this stuff, please reply.
yes, i am up for speeding. 106 on the M1.
I am after some general info about what to expect etc.
but any info on proceedings is gratefully received.
I think i'll manage the humble bit ok, but if i know as much as poss about what to expect, i think i'll be able to concentrate more on whats actually happening.BTW where can i find teds links?
Also, is it worth getting a brief- if you can afford a brief, you may well be able to afford a hefty fine!
>> Edited by tecstar on Monday 4th February 09:54
I am after some general info about what to expect etc.
but any info on proceedings is gratefully received.
I think i'll manage the humble bit ok, but if i know as much as poss about what to expect, i think i'll be able to concentrate more on whats actually happening.BTW where can i find teds links?
Also, is it worth getting a brief- if you can afford a brief, you may well be able to afford a hefty fine!
>> Edited by tecstar on Monday 4th February 09:54
I wouldnt get a brief cos they cost a lot of money and frankly wont help you much.
The format will go something like this...you'll stand up, at the front of a nearly empty coutroom (traffic court doesnt attract many people!) and be asked a few basic questions about you. After this, the court clerk (sits in front of the 'strates) will read, from your NIP, what you have done. Interestingly it would appear that he can read it how he wants. I have absolutely no idea why, but when I went the clerk obviously felt sorry for me and instead of reading "was photographed doing 71mph speed in a Lotus sports car", read "was seen doing 71mph in a ..er..vehicle". I don't know if it helped but I think it was nice of him!
After this, the 'strates will then go through the evidence of day (conditions etc...) and then ask if you have anything to say. This is a good point to be very, very humble or trot out your great mitigating excuse (but it better be The Bomb
)
They will then either a) sentence you then and there if it's obvious, or bugger of for half an hour leaving you scared as hell (bitter? me?!) before coming back and sentencing.
things not to say :
"It's not fair, I drive wickid at that speed"
"sorry...took my eye off the road to light a joint and didnt realise I was going so fast"
"Its my first performance car and I didnt realise it was so quick" (unless you've sold it before the trial in which case it could be a goody)
"I was in a hurry" (astoundingly popular reason people think they should be let off!)
"die you fascist pig bastards" (tempting maybe...but..!)
good things to say/do..
make sure you take a parent / another adult if you can - cos you're likely to get a ban and it shows the magistrates you're taking it that seriously (you've bought a driver)
If it would cost you your job, or would make getting to work almost impossible, make sure you have looked at local bus/train times so you can say so. Again shows you've taken it seriously.
er...it's half 6 and Im going home! will post more if I think of anything useful!
cheers
Niht
The format will go something like this...you'll stand up, at the front of a nearly empty coutroom (traffic court doesnt attract many people!) and be asked a few basic questions about you. After this, the court clerk (sits in front of the 'strates) will read, from your NIP, what you have done. Interestingly it would appear that he can read it how he wants. I have absolutely no idea why, but when I went the clerk obviously felt sorry for me and instead of reading "was photographed doing 71mph speed in a Lotus sports car", read "was seen doing 71mph in a ..er..vehicle". I don't know if it helped but I think it was nice of him!
After this, the 'strates will then go through the evidence of day (conditions etc...) and then ask if you have anything to say. This is a good point to be very, very humble or trot out your great mitigating excuse (but it better be The Bomb
) They will then either a) sentence you then and there if it's obvious, or bugger of for half an hour leaving you scared as hell (bitter? me?!) before coming back and sentencing.
things not to say :
"It's not fair, I drive wickid at that speed"
"sorry...took my eye off the road to light a joint and didnt realise I was going so fast"
"Its my first performance car and I didnt realise it was so quick" (unless you've sold it before the trial in which case it could be a goody)
"I was in a hurry" (astoundingly popular reason people think they should be let off!)
"die you fascist pig bastards" (tempting maybe...but..!)
good things to say/do..
make sure you take a parent / another adult if you can - cos you're likely to get a ban and it shows the magistrates you're taking it that seriously (you've bought a driver)
If it would cost you your job, or would make getting to work almost impossible, make sure you have looked at local bus/train times so you can say so. Again shows you've taken it seriously.
er...it's half 6 and Im going home! will post more if I think of anything useful!
cheers
Niht
I'm a retired solicitor. Do get a solicitor, one who does lots of this kind of work (if you're determined, you'll find out who these guys are),if you possibly can afford it. At least see one to get the basic lowdown on the parameters that are involved in your case. Armed with that, you are then informed.
This is a bad case: more than 30 mph over the limit, and almost certainly, you will have no defence. If there might be any, your solicitor, who is familiar with these offences and should therefore know, will tell you about it.
Magistrates do like it if you turn up in person, clean-shaven, with a shirt and tie, and if you are represented by a solicitor, so much the better, It shows respect and that you are taking the matter seriously.
He will do the talking, and horses for courses, he will know what to say, and will keep to the point, legally-speaking, whereas the amateur is prone to slip slide all over the place.
Whether that makes any difference at the end of the day, you will never know, but on the other hand, if you don't do this, you will never know what the result might have been otherwise.
It could be a very good investment.
Regards,
Gibson
This is a bad case: more than 30 mph over the limit, and almost certainly, you will have no defence. If there might be any, your solicitor, who is familiar with these offences and should therefore know, will tell you about it.
Magistrates do like it if you turn up in person, clean-shaven, with a shirt and tie, and if you are represented by a solicitor, so much the better, It shows respect and that you are taking the matter seriously.
He will do the talking, and horses for courses, he will know what to say, and will keep to the point, legally-speaking, whereas the amateur is prone to slip slide all over the place.
Whether that makes any difference at the end of the day, you will never know, but on the other hand, if you don't do this, you will never know what the result might have been otherwise.
It could be a very good investment.
Regards,
Gibson
xylophone, I bet you were a damn nice geezer to have around - but I can't say I like paying other people to do my work for me.
Why should the beak be impressed with a breif? I can apologise perfectly well by myself, and am capable of reasoned discussion.
The only thing I don't know is the technicalities of court ettiquette (sp?).
My 2nd hand experience of these things is;-
No brief = 50/50, with £40 costs if it goes tits up
Brief = 55/45, with £80 costs, and a bigger fine/more points. And £500 fee.
So I can't see that it's worth the fee.
Carl
Why should the beak be impressed with a breif? I can apologise perfectly well by myself, and am capable of reasoned discussion.
The only thing I don't know is the technicalities of court ettiquette (sp?).
My 2nd hand experience of these things is;-
No brief = 50/50, with £40 costs if it goes tits up
Brief = 55/45, with £80 costs, and a bigger fine/more points. And £500 fee.
So I can't see that it's worth the fee.
Carl
Yep, most solicitors charge £500 or thereabouts for an appearance. I have always been of the opinion that you are your best solicitor. About Solicitor fees being criminal, well, I could tell you a real story about how a relatively simple and stupid litigation went from an estimated costing of £150,000 to costing in total £390,000. The case was pathetic and the defendants claims were unbelieveable. Even the judge had a go at our solicitor because he was useless, our barrister was also of the same opinion. Case should not have gone to the high court. But he wanted to squeeze us dry.
Plus, there is no way to prove that he didn't do the work he claims. He merely just adds to his timesheet. Civil Legal system in this country is bollocks. Even if the solicitor wanted to offer no win no fee in civil litigation (injury cases excepted) he couldn't!!!
There is a joke that I heard:
A priest dies and goes to heaven. There he meets God and tells him that he was proud of his work and gives him a nice little room in a nice little house.
The priest was moderately happy till he saw that there was a lawyer who had been given a MASSIVE mansion, with loads and loads of beautiful women. He was very upset and confused and he asked how this could be, after he spent all his life working for the Lord's work he ends up with so little and the lawyer gets so much. "Well basically we get a lot of priests in here, but lawyers are very very rare!!"
No disrespect intended to any solicitors, especially those on this site, 'coz you guys must be pretty cool, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
PS the Bill Taxing system doesn't work well.
PPS. Even the system agrees that we are overcharge by at least a quarter because when you win a case you only get to recoup 75% percentage of your costs!!
Wow, my fingers ache!!
Plus, there is no way to prove that he didn't do the work he claims. He merely just adds to his timesheet. Civil Legal system in this country is bollocks. Even if the solicitor wanted to offer no win no fee in civil litigation (injury cases excepted) he couldn't!!!
There is a joke that I heard:
A priest dies and goes to heaven. There he meets God and tells him that he was proud of his work and gives him a nice little room in a nice little house.
The priest was moderately happy till he saw that there was a lawyer who had been given a MASSIVE mansion, with loads and loads of beautiful women. He was very upset and confused and he asked how this could be, after he spent all his life working for the Lord's work he ends up with so little and the lawyer gets so much. "Well basically we get a lot of priests in here, but lawyers are very very rare!!"
No disrespect intended to any solicitors, especially those on this site, 'coz you guys must be pretty cool, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
PS the Bill Taxing system doesn't work well.
PPS. Even the system agrees that we are overcharge by at least a quarter because when you win a case you only get to recoup 75% percentage of your costs!!
Wow, my fingers ache!!
Solicitors costs? WTF??? haven't you guys got legal insurance!!!??? Take every b*** you want to court and the lawyers can't rip you off as the ins.co. does the checking of the invoice and scrubs any positions that are overpriced. And their legal depts are bigger than any legal practice..... Legal insurance costs about £30 pa here!!! and worth every penny. I fight every highway robbery NIP!!! and have only paid up once in about 12 (german equiv) NIPs and no points!!!
Morning, advice please. I sell BMW's get given a Z3 to run round in,but can be in a different car on a daily basis as the Z3 gets loaned out/borrowed.Car zapped by a mobile 65 in a 50, dont remember using the car that day, customer had car around same time but denies it being her. Have seen a photo but this is inconclusive
and am being forced to put my name to it. Asked the ticket office for advice, they say if you cant agree who was driving the car then the company secretery should go to court but as he is out of the country most of the year this is a no go.Should i put my nane to it? What should i say if i go to court. Clocks ticking with this one so help if you can. Currently my licence is clean.
and am being forced to put my name to it. Asked the ticket office for advice, they say if you cant agree who was driving the car then the company secretery should go to court but as he is out of the country most of the year this is a no go.Should i put my nane to it? What should i say if i go to court. Clocks ticking with this one so help if you can. Currently my licence is clean.
If it wasn't you or your not sure don't cough for it at all. If you can afford a solicitor get one or if your prepared to take the chance go to court, stand up and say exactly what you just wrote take any documentory proof you can (did the customer sign for the car?) and stress that the whole principle of "innocent until proven guilty" and the cornerstone of english law puts the focus on the fact that they should need to prove it was you driving not you prove it wasn't. It doesn't always work but should be worth a try.
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