Dunno if I've handled my NIP well - long 1st post
Discussion
I've just joined this site and spent a few hours reading about what people have been doing with NIP's and what works/doesn't.
Basically the story is..
Was caught on mobile vid camera by a van parked on the opposite side of the road, facing the wrong way in a 40 limit. NIP says that my car was doing 57. The offence was 12th May and the NIP arrived about a week later.
I filled it out (by hand) and sent it back un-signed within a week or so of getting it. I named myself as the driver without really thinking about it - first NIP and never been caught speeding in my 17 years of driving.
6/7 weeks later I get a letter back saying it's an offence to not sign the NIP, but nothing else i.e. no blank NIP to complete and no original form. I ring them up and say I've completed the required form and tell them nothing was enclosed with the letter anyway. She checks and says my NIP has been lost and should have been in with the letter. They have an electronic copy (scan) but not the original anymore. She isn't much help and says I should write in. Next letter to the bloke who manages the fixed penalty unit. Tell him I have completed a form and returned it, ask to see proof that the correct proceedures were followed whilst the camera was used, ask to see the camera's calibration cert and ask for a photo showing me as the driver as after checking the dates it is highly likely that the driver was actually the wife (this is genuine) as I filled in the form without checking the date. It's now over 2 months since the date of offence.
Next letter from them contains a blank NIP, a fuzzy picture of the front of my car (it's a still from the video and you cannot make out the driver or even the sex of driver) and a cert from last year for the camera. Again there's a note about it being an offence to not sign the NIP.
I reply asking for a better picture as I still don't know who was driving. I ask again for a current cert of calibration and proof from the camera operator that the correct guidelines were followed. I again state that I have already completed a form and they have confirmed receipt of it - the scanned copy.
Latest reply has just arrived. They have again included a blank NIP saying I'll be taken to court if I don't complete it. They tell me the calib cert I have is good enough and that the photo's are not intended to show the driver and they won't be sending me anymore. So I ring them up and go through it all again on the phone with a new person who says she is a supervisor. At the end she tells me I am breaking the law if I complete the new NIP with my own details as I don't know who the driver was, which would be a false declaration. Tells me that's all the help she can be.
So....what next? Facts are basically
Wife may have been driving but after so many months we can't remember.
Original NIP completed by me (and they know I completed it as it's been mentioned in letters) has gone missing but a scanned copy is available.
Still not signed a NIP
Tried to do everything I could (looking at pics etc.) to work out who was driving.
Calibration certs seem a little out of date to me (don't know the rules) and my request to ensure the op procs were complied with have been ignored.
Cheers
>>> Edited by mxroadster on Friday 17th October 12:46
Basically the story is..
Was caught on mobile vid camera by a van parked on the opposite side of the road, facing the wrong way in a 40 limit. NIP says that my car was doing 57. The offence was 12th May and the NIP arrived about a week later.
I filled it out (by hand) and sent it back un-signed within a week or so of getting it. I named myself as the driver without really thinking about it - first NIP and never been caught speeding in my 17 years of driving.
6/7 weeks later I get a letter back saying it's an offence to not sign the NIP, but nothing else i.e. no blank NIP to complete and no original form. I ring them up and say I've completed the required form and tell them nothing was enclosed with the letter anyway. She checks and says my NIP has been lost and should have been in with the letter. They have an electronic copy (scan) but not the original anymore. She isn't much help and says I should write in. Next letter to the bloke who manages the fixed penalty unit. Tell him I have completed a form and returned it, ask to see proof that the correct proceedures were followed whilst the camera was used, ask to see the camera's calibration cert and ask for a photo showing me as the driver as after checking the dates it is highly likely that the driver was actually the wife (this is genuine) as I filled in the form without checking the date. It's now over 2 months since the date of offence.
Next letter from them contains a blank NIP, a fuzzy picture of the front of my car (it's a still from the video and you cannot make out the driver or even the sex of driver) and a cert from last year for the camera. Again there's a note about it being an offence to not sign the NIP.
I reply asking for a better picture as I still don't know who was driving. I ask again for a current cert of calibration and proof from the camera operator that the correct guidelines were followed. I again state that I have already completed a form and they have confirmed receipt of it - the scanned copy.
Latest reply has just arrived. They have again included a blank NIP saying I'll be taken to court if I don't complete it. They tell me the calib cert I have is good enough and that the photo's are not intended to show the driver and they won't be sending me anymore. So I ring them up and go through it all again on the phone with a new person who says she is a supervisor. At the end she tells me I am breaking the law if I complete the new NIP with my own details as I don't know who the driver was, which would be a false declaration. Tells me that's all the help she can be.
So....what next? Facts are basically
Wife may have been driving but after so many months we can't remember.
Original NIP completed by me (and they know I completed it as it's been mentioned in letters) has gone missing but a scanned copy is available.
Still not signed a NIP
Tried to do everything I could (looking at pics etc.) to work out who was driving.
Calibration certs seem a little out of date to me (don't know the rules) and my request to ensure the op procs were complied with have been ignored.
Cheers
>>> Edited by mxroadster on Friday 17th October 12:46
I'd agree with 206XSi, they lost your NIP a scanned copy cannot be used in evidence as it can be tampered with and you have been told by one of their official that it would be an offence to fill in a new NIP. Send then a letter confirming your conversation with said official confirming what she said (take advice on this though). Screw em they slipped up, good for you.
Thanks for all the info. Sounds like I'm in a good place with this.
Outlaw - I have a letter from them saying they confirm receipt of the NIP I filled out (but didn't sign) but they can't find it each time I ring up and they keep sending me blanks to fill out again - good enough?
As to the writing my own name down - yes I'm guilty but the wife has a car of her own and I assumed it was me. After checking my shifts etc. it turns out it was most likely her but we can't remember.
Ta
Outlaw - I have a letter from them saying they confirm receipt of the NIP I filled out (but didn't sign) but they can't find it each time I ring up and they keep sending me blanks to fill out again - good enough?
As to the writing my own name down - yes I'm guilty but the wife has a car of her own and I assumed it was me. After checking my shifts etc. it turns out it was most likely her but we can't remember.
Ta
and dont go telling them any thing more about who was driving
and dont speak to the no more
if they try to do you for not sending the nip you go to court and produce the letter confiming they had and lost it.
not signing is not an offence they lied.
they keep sending you the nip to see if you give up and sing one my guess is they havent lost it.
It aint yopr problem they lost it. You completed you legal obligations.
>> Edited by outlaw on Friday 17th October 15:04
and dont speak to the no more
if they try to do you for not sending the nip you go to court and produce the letter confiming they had and lost it.
not signing is not an offence they lied.
they keep sending you the nip to see if you give up and sing one my guess is they havent lost it.
It aint yopr problem they lost it. You completed you legal obligations.
>> Edited by outlaw on Friday 17th October 15:04
mxroadster said:
As it's now past the 12th Nov and over 6 months since the date of the offence - does that mean I've got off with it?
not exactly they have to proses the sumonos with in six moths. not take you to court but in reality m8 you have won.
remember they lost the evidence I very much dout you hear from them againg.
well done
said:
7 weeks later I get a letter back saying it's an offence to not sign the NIP
It is not an offence - this is just bluster
The helpful lady on the phone seem to have invited you to stick to your line.
But as outlaw says - never write your name in and never phone them up ever - best thing is to write courteous letters 24-27 days after each communication you get starting with the NIP - they've got 183 days from the offence to lay details before the court.
In my experience they give up after 4 or 5 months. Friend phoned up yesterday after receiving a ' no further action reply from the South Wales partnership - another £ 60 denied you Rowling !!!!
So far this advice has a 100% success rate.
seems like the more you tell them, the worst it gets for you.. I was always taught to trust the Authorities, however recent experiences show that the more up front you are - the bigger hole you dig. Sorry law buddies, you sound like good guys, but your colleagues I have dealt with don't match up.
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