New - On the Spot Fines
Discussion
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/20/nfine20.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/10/20/ixportal.html
Britain is to adopt a Continental-style system of on-the-spot cash fines for motorists to stop foreign drivers evading penalties for speeding and other minor offences.
However, under EU law all motorists must be treated the same, which could mean similar spot fines for British drivers.
The move follows concern over the almost non-existent enforcement of traffic penalties against a growing number of overseas motorists and lorry drivers.
In the past, the police have been uneasy about spot fines, fearing they increase the temptation for some officers to be corrupt.
The plan was discussed at a meeting of the Association of Chief Constables "cabinet" this month. A leaked version of the minutes said the Government and police, with the help of the Transport Department's new Vehicle Operator Service Agency, intended to proceed with the change "in the near future".
Britain is one of only three EU states - the others are Ireland and Finland - that does not have systems to ensure non-residents cannot easily evade sanctions.
Police on the Continent can demand cash from speeding drivers and even accompany them to a bank to withdraw the money. In some countries, vehicles can be impounded until the cash is paid.
In Britain, minor motoring offences incur endorsable fixed penalty notices which cannot be issued without a UK driving licence. A speeding British driver will normally receive a £60 fine and three points; foreign drivers are effectively immune.
Even if caught on camera, foreign drivers are not pursued because the DVLA has no address. They are rarely arrested because of the time and cost of holding them in custody and arranging a court appearance and interpreter.
Unless the offence is very serious, it would be unlawful under EU law to arrest another EU national for an offence that would not require the arrest of a British driver.
Police chiefs were told at the meeting on Oct 8: "The EU has already questioned our practice of taking a non-UK driver to court, subjecting that driver to court costs, when a UK driver would receive a fixed penalty."
The chief constables were advised that detaining a driver to ensure a court appearance for a minor offence would be considered disproportionate and a breach both of free movement provisions in the Treaty of Rome and of human rights laws.
"This leaves officers little choice but to let the non-UK driver continue without prosecution," the minutes add.
They set out a number of options, ranging from doing nothing, which was judged to be "politically not sustainable"; waiting 10 years for EU legislation to be enacted to cover the whole of Europe; or "adopt a roadside deposit system for enforcement".
Police have been reluctant to move to the Continental system because of the increased paperwork and responsibility of handling money and credit card payments.
From December the fixed penalty system is to be extended in Britain, with £30 fines for people using hand-held mobile phones while driving. For foreign drivers this could also result in a cash fine on the spot.
Research by the RAC found that around a third of motorists are confused about or unaware of the new law.
Rebecca Bell, an RAC spokesman, said: "Further explicit guidance is required to ensure that motorists know what they will face when the law changes in December.
"It is estimated that 500,000 motorists are on the phone in their cars at any one time."
On-the-spot fines are the norm in many European countries for traffic and parking infringements. Even backing into side roads, making three-point turns and failing to switch on lights for road tunnels can incur a fine.
In Spain, the minimum fine is £80 and police may hold the driver until the money is forthcoming, while French police can impose cash fines of up to £520.
In Belgium, resident motorists can refuse to pay but a foreigner risks his vehicle being impounded.
German police can issue on-the-spot fines or demand a deposit with seven days to pay the remainder. In Italy, fines for speeding are particularly heavy.
Okay any ideas how this is going to work in practice. Surely with the heavy reliance on cameras the only way to do this is to have either everybodys credit card details / bank account details available to the Police? Or is this part of a move towards satellite tagging of all cars? Or are we going to see more traffic police on the roads?
Britain is to adopt a Continental-style system of on-the-spot cash fines for motorists to stop foreign drivers evading penalties for speeding and other minor offences.
However, under EU law all motorists must be treated the same, which could mean similar spot fines for British drivers.
The move follows concern over the almost non-existent enforcement of traffic penalties against a growing number of overseas motorists and lorry drivers.
In the past, the police have been uneasy about spot fines, fearing they increase the temptation for some officers to be corrupt.
The plan was discussed at a meeting of the Association of Chief Constables "cabinet" this month. A leaked version of the minutes said the Government and police, with the help of the Transport Department's new Vehicle Operator Service Agency, intended to proceed with the change "in the near future".
Britain is one of only three EU states - the others are Ireland and Finland - that does not have systems to ensure non-residents cannot easily evade sanctions.
Police on the Continent can demand cash from speeding drivers and even accompany them to a bank to withdraw the money. In some countries, vehicles can be impounded until the cash is paid.
In Britain, minor motoring offences incur endorsable fixed penalty notices which cannot be issued without a UK driving licence. A speeding British driver will normally receive a £60 fine and three points; foreign drivers are effectively immune.
Even if caught on camera, foreign drivers are not pursued because the DVLA has no address. They are rarely arrested because of the time and cost of holding them in custody and arranging a court appearance and interpreter.
Unless the offence is very serious, it would be unlawful under EU law to arrest another EU national for an offence that would not require the arrest of a British driver.
Police chiefs were told at the meeting on Oct 8: "The EU has already questioned our practice of taking a non-UK driver to court, subjecting that driver to court costs, when a UK driver would receive a fixed penalty."
The chief constables were advised that detaining a driver to ensure a court appearance for a minor offence would be considered disproportionate and a breach both of free movement provisions in the Treaty of Rome and of human rights laws.
"This leaves officers little choice but to let the non-UK driver continue without prosecution," the minutes add.
They set out a number of options, ranging from doing nothing, which was judged to be "politically not sustainable"; waiting 10 years for EU legislation to be enacted to cover the whole of Europe; or "adopt a roadside deposit system for enforcement".
Police have been reluctant to move to the Continental system because of the increased paperwork and responsibility of handling money and credit card payments.
From December the fixed penalty system is to be extended in Britain, with £30 fines for people using hand-held mobile phones while driving. For foreign drivers this could also result in a cash fine on the spot.
Research by the RAC found that around a third of motorists are confused about or unaware of the new law.
Rebecca Bell, an RAC spokesman, said: "Further explicit guidance is required to ensure that motorists know what they will face when the law changes in December.
"It is estimated that 500,000 motorists are on the phone in their cars at any one time."
On-the-spot fines are the norm in many European countries for traffic and parking infringements. Even backing into side roads, making three-point turns and failing to switch on lights for road tunnels can incur a fine.
In Spain, the minimum fine is £80 and police may hold the driver until the money is forthcoming, while French police can impose cash fines of up to £520.
In Belgium, resident motorists can refuse to pay but a foreigner risks his vehicle being impounded.
German police can issue on-the-spot fines or demand a deposit with seven days to pay the remainder. In Italy, fines for speeding are particularly heavy.
Okay any ideas how this is going to work in practice. Surely with the heavy reliance on cameras the only way to do this is to have either everybodys credit card details / bank account details available to the Police? Or is this part of a move towards satellite tagging of all cars? Or are we going to see more traffic police on the roads?
What worries me is that this seems to be making a traffic cop also the judge & jury - although I guess these are strict liability offences, what if there are mitigating circumstances, that would normally be contested in court?
Or worse still, what if you're accused of speeding or using a hand-held mobile phone when you're not?
Or worse still, what if you're accused of speeding or using a hand-held mobile phone when you're not?
onedsla said:No real difference from the current system. Unless you want to contest it in court then you have been judged and the penalty applied by the copper. The only addition is the fact that they would have to handle the money directly.
What worries me is that this seems to be making a traffic cop also the judge & jury - although I guess these are strict liability offences, what if there are mitigating circumstances, that would normally be contested in court?
Or worse still, what if you're accused of speeding or using a hand-held mobile phone when you're not?
I would suspect that in practice A. there aren't enough traffic coppers to make a difference. B. they will change the law so that you get the option to pay at the roadside or at a later date if a UK resident. There will be some subtle wording that makes it appear to be the same for non-residents.
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