Secret Policeman...
Discussion
I suspect most of you caught this last night. I thought it was very interesting...what did you guys think?
What impression of the police were you left with?
Did you think it gave an indication of the country as a whole?
I know this much, I wouldn't want to be PC PULLING this morning. He's going to have an outraged ethnic community AND about 10,000 coppers banging on his door this morning. He's just made thier job about a gazillion times harder, and we HATE people that do that.
What impression of the police were you left with?
Did you think it gave an indication of the country as a whole?
I know this much, I wouldn't want to be PC PULLING this morning. He's going to have an outraged ethnic community AND about 10,000 coppers banging on his door this morning. He's just made thier job about a gazillion times harder, and we HATE people that do that.
From my point of view the behaviour of the trainees was despicable.
There is no place for that behaviour.
I did think that the reporter was baiting several people, and the trainees, in the earlier stages of training did appear to be trying to sound 'cool' by being as racist as possible.
I can honestly say that it is not the behaviour of street officers, and if they think those things, they are never said.
I think the programme showed that the established Police officers acted in a different, more mature manner.
The only racism I have come across is that directed at me. That is never shown on television though.
Still, it shouldn't have happened, and at least GMP have taken appropriate action.
It was good to see the trainer singing from the correct songsheet by saying any sort of racist language is not acceptable.
Just the sort of publicity we need. What a bunch of tosspots.
There is no place for that behaviour.
I did think that the reporter was baiting several people, and the trainees, in the earlier stages of training did appear to be trying to sound 'cool' by being as racist as possible.
I can honestly say that it is not the behaviour of street officers, and if they think those things, they are never said.
I think the programme showed that the established Police officers acted in a different, more mature manner.
The only racism I have come across is that directed at me. That is never shown on television though.
Still, it shouldn't have happened, and at least GMP have taken appropriate action.
It was good to see the trainer singing from the correct songsheet by saying any sort of racist language is not acceptable.
Just the sort of publicity we need. What a bunch of tosspots.
It just looked like a deliberate attempt by the journalist, who went in there deciding he was going to write about racism, and all he did was keep making them talk about it, winding them up as it were.
I don't doubt that this sort of thing goes on, but would those officers concerned have talked about it so much if the journalist wasn't always bringing it up in discussions?
I don't doubt that this sort of thing goes on, but would those officers concerned have talked about it so much if the journalist wasn't always bringing it up in discussions?
ananova said:
More officers suspended after racism exposure
Three more police officers have been suspended following the broadcast of a controversial documentary exposing racism among recruits.
Two officers from Greater Manchester Police and one officer from Cheshire were suspended after the programme was broadcast last night.
Four officers, three from Greater Manchester and one from North Wales Police, had already been suspended before the programme, The Secret Policeman, was aired on BBC1.
Assistant Chief Constable Alan Green of Greater Manchester Police, said the force expected to take further action once it received extra material from the BBC.
He said: "Racism has no place in Greater Manchester Police and we are totally committed to tackling it both inside and outside the force. Our investigation into the issues, which is being independently supervised, will be thorough."
His counterpart in Cheshire, David Green, said the racist conduct shown in the programme was "abhorrent".
He said: "There is great disappointment and anger at all levels within the police service that a small group of officers, including one from Cheshire, have let us all down.
"Racist conduct is abhorrent in any form, whether inside or outside the service and strenuous efforts have been made by the Cheshire Constabulary and other forces to challenge such racism."
He said the programme underlined the commitment of police trainers to challenge racial stereotypes but conceded that measures currently in place to root out racist attitudes were insufficient.
"Cheshire Constabulary's recruitment and selection procedures also investigation applicants' views about diversity and equality but it is clear from the programme that these initiatives alone with not eradicate entrenched views in a minority of cases," he said.
"We therefore intend to review our recruitment and selection procedures and will be asking local community groups ... to help us identify ways of screening out racist views."
He added: "Cheshire Constabulary acknowledge that racism has not been eradicated in the police service but reaffirms its commitment to tackle racist behaviour and attitudes both inside and outside the police service."
I just want to reiterate what has already been said about the programme last night.
First and foremost, i was disgusted at the attitude of these 'new recruits' and cant quantify the extent of the damage that they have caused to the hard working, genuine Police Officers out on the streets today.
I do believe that the reporter was 'egging them on' with leading questions and dragging more and more of this rubbish out of their mouths.
Its a real pity that they couldnt have followed them around with the secret camera as they were dealing with members of the public in their Police role just to see if it was bravado or that that was how they genuinely felt about black people, assaulting them etc etc. If so, then at least they could have been put behind bars.
One thing is for certain though, there is no place for this kind of attitude/behaviour in the modern Police Service.
When you think about it though, it would be interesting to see how similar it would be if you tried the same senario in any other training organisation.
First and foremost, i was disgusted at the attitude of these 'new recruits' and cant quantify the extent of the damage that they have caused to the hard working, genuine Police Officers out on the streets today.
I do believe that the reporter was 'egging them on' with leading questions and dragging more and more of this rubbish out of their mouths.
Its a real pity that they couldnt have followed them around with the secret camera as they were dealing with members of the public in their Police role just to see if it was bravado or that that was how they genuinely felt about black people, assaulting them etc etc. If so, then at least they could have been put behind bars.
One thing is for certain though, there is no place for this kind of attitude/behaviour in the modern Police Service.
When you think about it though, it would be interesting to see how similar it would be if you tried the same senario in any other training organisation.
Saw the prog and found it despicable. Can't support anyone who is as shown.
HOWEVER as silverback has implied (excuse me if I've read between the lines), racism is rife amongst the racial monorities and being used daily "against" the rest of Britons. have experienced this myself especially in areas of Leicester, Bradford, Barnsley and especially London etc.... What is being done about that?
Probably nothing as its not PC......
Can of worms methinks, but we've got to have a level playingfield..........
HOWEVER as silverback has implied (excuse me if I've read between the lines), racism is rife amongst the racial monorities and being used daily "against" the rest of Britons. have experienced this myself especially in areas of Leicester, Bradford, Barnsley and especially London etc.... What is being done about that?
Probably nothing as its not PC......
Can of worms methinks, but we've got to have a level playingfield..........
As was suggested to me earlier, the question has to be asked about the agenda of the producer(s) of this programme?
On a basic level, who can honestly say that in private, behind closed doors and in the company of those to whom a mutual bond of whatever sort is applicable, comments about other people generally are not made and sometimes, these would clearly not be for consumption beyond those boundaries?
The expression of the more extreme sounding views, however unpalatable to some are so ubiquitous they should surprise nobody: the attempt to link PC Brain Cell's puerile KKK mimic to anything so suspiciously sinister as in the Lawrenson several's knife antics struck me as 'reaching' in the extreme.
What we saw was a police force racked with over politicised angst about the racist question and as ever, some of it's less enlightened constituents' reactions thereto...
This comes down, as ever, to the whole issue of positive discrimination. When an institution, system or society is cajouled into a facistic train of thought and action, the contrary 'underground' sentiments thus reported will not just simmer on but positively gain strength.
The fact is that the police pulling over a car full of attitude-ridden Asian lads during the middle of the day are just as likely to perform the same task in instances where kappas of baseball capped white trash in knackered Sierrae are found cruising comparable environs.
Just be careful what you say and to whom: it seems that in this age of banal celebrity and mindless sensationalism anyone seems fair game for saying anything, anywhere.
In the interests of objectivity, however, the admission about subjective discrimination in the prosecution of tax disc related motoring offences was, if true, outrageous.
What is said in uniform is far fairer game than what is said without: that IS a critical distinction, whatever one feels about specific individuals.
On a basic level, who can honestly say that in private, behind closed doors and in the company of those to whom a mutual bond of whatever sort is applicable, comments about other people generally are not made and sometimes, these would clearly not be for consumption beyond those boundaries?
The expression of the more extreme sounding views, however unpalatable to some are so ubiquitous they should surprise nobody: the attempt to link PC Brain Cell's puerile KKK mimic to anything so suspiciously sinister as in the Lawrenson several's knife antics struck me as 'reaching' in the extreme.
What we saw was a police force racked with over politicised angst about the racist question and as ever, some of it's less enlightened constituents' reactions thereto...
This comes down, as ever, to the whole issue of positive discrimination. When an institution, system or society is cajouled into a facistic train of thought and action, the contrary 'underground' sentiments thus reported will not just simmer on but positively gain strength.
The fact is that the police pulling over a car full of attitude-ridden Asian lads during the middle of the day are just as likely to perform the same task in instances where kappas of baseball capped white trash in knackered Sierrae are found cruising comparable environs.
Just be careful what you say and to whom: it seems that in this age of banal celebrity and mindless sensationalism anyone seems fair game for saying anything, anywhere.
In the interests of objectivity, however, the admission about subjective discrimination in the prosecution of tax disc related motoring offences was, if true, outrageous.
What is said in uniform is far fairer game than what is said without: that IS a critical distinction, whatever one feels about specific individuals.
JMGS4 said:
Saw the prog and found it despicable. Can't support anyone who is as shown.
HOWEVER as silverback has implied (excuse me if I've read between the lines), racism is rife amongst the racial monorities and being used daily "against" the rest of Britons. have experienced this myself especially in areas of Leicester, Bradford, Barnsley and especially London etc.... What is being done about that?
Probably nothing as its not PC......
Can of worms methinks, but we've got to have a level playingfield..........
I Can only report on what has been directed at me. And yes, working in an area with diverse racial backgrounds I have faced absolute racism. Such words have been thrown at me as "White trash pig" etc etc. Needless to say, positive action was taken, and in one particular instance I had arrested 2 Large build asian males for an assault on 1 white person (which had several independent witnesses) During the arrest (of both) I was injured and had so much racial / police abuse thrown at me I forget what they said other than "F*** off white pig".
Upon speaking to the custody sgt, I explained I had arrested both for ABH, and racially motivated public order (directed at me).
The ABH Charge went ahead, but the racial bit was dropped 'not to inflame matters'.
Now tell me if that is double standards.
However, don't get me wrong. I have several friends in my patrol area who own shops, tea stops (ahem) who are asian males / females and I have lots of respect for them.
There are bad apples everywhere, but it seems like it only gets reported one way.
Mike.
I thought it was a bad choice of programs. The reporter was always going to find some racism. I feel the BBC should have been more responsible. OK do the investigation, but once you have found the results (and alot of baiting was going on) pass them to the commisioner etc.
Generally noy in the public intrest
Generally noy in the public intrest
I had it on in the background, and there did appear to be an element of baiting going on.
However as has been said the recruits shouldn't have risen to the bait. As someone said it is unfortunate that the programme was unable to show how much was bravado and how much translated into the recruits appearance on the beat.
To be honest I suspect that the police, along with any other organisation are going to attract inappropriate candidates. The hope is that at some point they will be identified and weeded out, hopefully before doing too much damage to the polices reputation.
Its unfortunate that we don't see postive programmes about the polices efforts to weed out racism.
However as has been said the recruits shouldn't have risen to the bait. As someone said it is unfortunate that the programme was unable to show how much was bravado and how much translated into the recruits appearance on the beat.
To be honest I suspect that the police, along with any other organisation are going to attract inappropriate candidates. The hope is that at some point they will be identified and weeded out, hopefully before doing too much damage to the polices reputation.
Its unfortunate that we don't see postive programmes about the polices efforts to weed out racism.
pies said:
I thought it was a bad choice of programs. The reporter was always going to find some racism. I feel the BBC should have been more responsible. OK do the investigation, but once you have found the results (and alot of baiting was going on) pass them to the commisioner etc.
Generally not in the public intrest
Well said, Pies. Great summation.
I think there was definatly a certain ammount of baiting going on in order to make people feel comfortable in comming out of themself... If any thing the program showed that the initial recruitment procedure was inefficient... and that once a racist had managed to get past recruitment there wasn't an effective method of dealing with that person or persons...
I would also say that buy highlighting the 'positive' discrimination they also showed how some of the seeds of resentment are sown... that resentment may be intepreted as rasism (because of who it is directed at) but I personally felt it was just the natural reaction to anyone that has managed to jump a queue and appears not to have achieved the same standard as others in the same position...
I would also say that buy highlighting the 'positive' discrimination they also showed how some of the seeds of resentment are sown... that resentment may be intepreted as rasism (because of who it is directed at) but I personally felt it was just the natural reaction to anyone that has managed to jump a queue and appears not to have achieved the same standard as others in the same position...
Unfortunately, I didn't watch the program and I can only reflect upon what I have read and heard on the news.
Whether thare was baiting or not, there is no place in the police force, nor any public service, for anyone who feels it acceptable to use racist language. It is a shame that programs like these put a unfavorable view of the police force in the public eye. However, it is in the public interest that these issues are raised so that they can be addressed and can be seen to be addressed.
My greatest complaint has to lie with the government. They did not help to put the situation in context when they complained that the program incited the these losers to use this language. Instead they should have reiterated that these were a very small minority and that they were taking steps to combat this type of behavior. Instead it came over as a complaint that the reporters shouln't have "outted" these racists.
Whether thare was baiting or not, there is no place in the police force, nor any public service, for anyone who feels it acceptable to use racist language. It is a shame that programs like these put a unfavorable view of the police force in the public eye. However, it is in the public interest that these issues are raised so that they can be addressed and can be seen to be addressed.
My greatest complaint has to lie with the government. They did not help to put the situation in context when they complained that the program incited the these losers to use this language. Instead they should have reiterated that these were a very small minority and that they were taking steps to combat this type of behavior. Instead it came over as a complaint that the reporters shouln't have "outted" these racists.
Were people genuinely surpised that there are racist policemen?!! They infiltrate all walks of life. No organisation can effectively identify people with racist (or any other anti-social) views.
Personally I think they should have been weeded out long ago purely on their disgracfull language and general attituted let alone the racist comments.
I'm glad they have been publicly humiliated and they should be duely punished. What punishment they recieve will be the real test for the police. They have been suspended pending a 'thorough investigation' yes, but on full pay I bet. Sod the investigation, they should be ejected from the force immediately on that evidence alone. But who thinks they'll be back as serving officers in a years time? Me for one.
(In support of both the police and the journo I thought he made it quite clear it was only a minority and that the majority were fine officers.)
>> Edited by jam1et on Wednesday 22 October 10:54
Personally I think they should have been weeded out long ago purely on their disgracfull language and general attituted let alone the racist comments.
I'm glad they have been publicly humiliated and they should be duely punished. What punishment they recieve will be the real test for the police. They have been suspended pending a 'thorough investigation' yes, but on full pay I bet. Sod the investigation, they should be ejected from the force immediately on that evidence alone. But who thinks they'll be back as serving officers in a years time? Me for one.
(In support of both the police and the journo I thought he made it quite clear it was only a minority and that the majority were fine officers.)
>> Edited by jam1et on Wednesday 22 October 10:54
jam1et said:
But who thinks they'll be back as serving officers in a years time? Me for one.
Theres absolutely no way that they will get back into the Police Service.
No Force would ever employ them in that role again, they simply couldnt take the chance. Anyway for one of them, there will be half a dozen suitable people applying
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