Pulling out of police chases
Discussion
Watching one of these Police chase progs on BBC 1 the other night, where it was stated that these days they often pull out of chases if the driving of the criminal gets too dangerous. Surely the criminals know this and that if they drive recklessly enough they will get off ? Also it implies that the more reckless and dangerous the criminal is the more likely they are to get off, when the converse should be true, ie they need to get caught and locked up to prevent dangerous driving in the future.
Often wonder about that - the more programs they put on telling you about the way certain instituitions work - the TrafPol, or the SAS for example, are they endanger of making themselves less effective..?
I certainly think that the public needs to be more aware of things TrafPol etc do. Thats obvious from the wildly inaccurate opinions/views a lot of posters on this page have of the police and what they do with their day... Thus, keeping themselves to themselves obviously doesn't always work.
But releasing too much information can give someone who wishes too, the chance to abuse the situation to his/her advantage....
Tough call.
I certainly think that the public needs to be more aware of things TrafPol etc do. Thats obvious from the wildly inaccurate opinions/views a lot of posters on this page have of the police and what they do with their day... Thus, keeping themselves to themselves obviously doesn't always work.
But releasing too much information can give someone who wishes too, the chance to abuse the situation to his/her advantage....
Tough call.
Saw the same program, and thought exactly the same thing to myself!
U can completely understand why they pull out though.
Also what amazed me was where the current BiB driver was criticising driving of only 5 years ago (it did deserve criticism though - did you see when they bundled that Metro over JUST before the brow of a hill !! [yikes!!!!!])
U can completely understand why they pull out though.
Also what amazed me was where the current BiB driver was criticising driving of only 5 years ago (it did deserve criticism though - did you see when they bundled that Metro over JUST before the brow of a hill !! [yikes!!!!!])
The main crux of it folks is that during busy/daylight hours, a pursuit through a busy area may end in fatalities to the innocent.
As much as it may have galled me to pull out of a pursuit in the past, you have to think that if you are approaching a residential area at 100 plus, in theory something will go upside down, or a completely innocent person or persons may get killed.
It all depends on the situation, time of day, road speed, road conditions, driver qualifications. All these contribute to whether a pursuit may continue.
As much as it may have galled me to pull out of a pursuit in the past, you have to think that if you are approaching a residential area at 100 plus, in theory something will go upside down, or a completely innocent person or persons may get killed.
It all depends on the situation, time of day, road speed, road conditions, driver qualifications. All these contribute to whether a pursuit may continue.
Ive watched a US version of that programme a few times - they use the 'pit manouvre' to spin, and often flip, the offending car - maybe the UK Police should do the same thing - ram the bastards off of the road before they get to residential areas etc.
I saw them do it once though, near to another vehicle - the offender rolled his truck right through another one - completely destroyed both. The other truck (by truck i mean big SUV) wasnt anything to do with the chase though - probably just driving home from work when *wham* he gets sideswiped by another SUV!
I saw them do it once though, near to another vehicle - the offender rolled his truck right through another one - completely destroyed both. The other truck (by truck i mean big SUV) wasnt anything to do with the chase though - probably just driving home from work when *wham* he gets sideswiped by another SUV!
Bluebottle said:
Mike,
I'm not so sure about the term 'innocent'. If there is risk to the driver of the target car then the pursuit should be abandoned.
No, thats not what I meant, I was meaning people crossing out in front of the car, children etc etc,
sorry for any confusion.
Personally I couldn't care less about the bloke driving the stolen car.
It certainly is a catch 22 situation. Carry on chasing: catch criminal, risk killing someone. Stop chasing: let criminal get away.
A decision I should think none of us would want to choose (no matter what way it goes, you could get slammed, blamed, accused for it).....so thumbs up to the BiB's that choose to be put in a position where they have to make that choice.
here you go....have a
A decision I should think none of us would want to choose (no matter what way it goes, you could get slammed, blamed, accused for it).....so thumbs up to the BiB's that choose to be put in a position where they have to make that choice.
here you go....have a
rospa said:
What about large bull bars with a large teeth-gnashing jaw on the front? A bit like Dasterdly and Mutley....
Sorry.
Nope I liked the Finnish police system.
A humongous harpoon that they fired into the back of the target vehicle and then just put the brakes on. If the harpoon could be made explosive so much the better!
Personally I think our roads and surroundings are too congested for the US technique of causing them to spin out.
Good point Hornet,
The stinger is an excellent bit of kit, and perfect if you know where the car is going.
However, there have been a few incidents, like my colleage Steve Jones who was hit by a car thief full on by avoiding a stinger.
Needless to say since Steve died, there are lots of restrictions on where stinger can be used.
Bloody sickening that was.
The stinger is an excellent bit of kit, and perfect if you know where the car is going.
However, there have been a few incidents, like my colleage Steve Jones who was hit by a car thief full on by avoiding a stinger.
Needless to say since Steve died, there are lots of restrictions on where stinger can be used.
Bloody sickening that was.
Sure was toad, bloody manslaughter for taking a mans life in cold blood, leaving 2 young daughters and wife.
The car that hit Steve was a sierra 4x4 and was unrecognisable, but as is always the case, the offender got out and ran off.
A very bad day....
Needless to say, when stinger is used now, you have to be behind a big wall or something that will stop a vehicle.
The car that hit Steve was a sierra 4x4 and was unrecognisable, but as is always the case, the offender got out and ran off.
A very bad day....
Needless to say, when stinger is used now, you have to be behind a big wall or something that will stop a vehicle.
There is for and against. The thing that irritates most PCs is the way they are portrayed in newspapers and current affairs progs on TV. The reporters know that often what they print is pure hype but, as the population doesn't know the ins and outs, they get away with it. So the more the public sees of police and how they opporate the more they are able to make an informed judgement, and not one based on three lines in a tabloid.
It has benefits for the service as well. Some years ago there was a fly on the wall type documentary where a rape victim was dealt with in a manner that is still embarrassing. It led to fundamental changes in the way victims of sexual offences were dealt with.
Mind you, the law still requires us to bully and force victims to do things against their wishes but there's nothing we can do about that, apart from killing all lawyers.
So you get a better informed populace, a check on police methods and feedback on how we perform. Most habitual offenders know the SP so they learn little. Let's face it, experience teaches them nothing. On balance I think it is worth it.
Mind you, they did a series on my station and every police officer acted up to the camera, even the hard boiled ones.
It has benefits for the service as well. Some years ago there was a fly on the wall type documentary where a rape victim was dealt with in a manner that is still embarrassing. It led to fundamental changes in the way victims of sexual offences were dealt with.
Mind you, the law still requires us to bully and force victims to do things against their wishes but there's nothing we can do about that, apart from killing all lawyers.
So you get a better informed populace, a check on police methods and feedback on how we perform. Most habitual offenders know the SP so they learn little. Let's face it, experience teaches them nothing. On balance I think it is worth it.
Mind you, they did a series on my station and every police officer acted up to the camera, even the hard boiled ones.
Bluebottle said:
There is for and against. The thing that irritates most PCs is the way they are portrayed in newspapers and current affairs progs on TV. The reporters know that often what they print is pure hype but, as the population doesn't know the ins and outs, they get away with it.
Actually I reckon it would do everyone good once in a while to see a TV prog and/or read a newspaper article about a subject that they, the viewer, really knew all the ins and outs of.
I would guess most people would have a "scales falling from the eyes" type of miracle and henceforth realise that most of what they see and read is spun to death and bears no relation to the truth. Or at least if some of it is true then the spin comes as a result of all the balancing parts left out.
Let's face it, why let the truth get in the way of a good story.
The programme ended with the presenter telling us the number of deaths incurred during police pursuits had reduced during recent years.
This left me with the thought - is this really down to a change in police tactics or is is actually down to there being less traffic police out there???? Ah but I'm sure the "safety cameras" will be apprehending the dangerous drivers instead eh?
This left me with the thought - is this really down to a change in police tactics or is is actually down to there being less traffic police out there???? Ah but I'm sure the "safety cameras" will be apprehending the dangerous drivers instead eh?
Reg,
It isnt down solely to traffic.
District response units also are qualified, and in the majority of cases it is these that are involved.
Personally, I think the lower deaths are due to latest policy, and training.
Plus, stinger has played its part.
Also, there has been a wain in the criminals who used to deliberately bait the police for a pursuit, favouring ram raids instead.
It isnt down solely to traffic.
District response units also are qualified, and in the majority of cases it is these that are involved.
Personally, I think the lower deaths are due to latest policy, and training.
Plus, stinger has played its part.
Also, there has been a wain in the criminals who used to deliberately bait the police for a pursuit, favouring ram raids instead.
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