Discussion
I am contesting a recent NIP stating that i cannot remember whether i or my wife were driving at the time we were flashed by a camera on the M6.
Warwickshire Police have now sent me a letter stating that, because i cannot provide a name and address of a driver, they will be preparing a file and will issue a summons for the alleged offence of failing to provide the name and address of the driver.
Can anyone let me know what the penalty (fine/points) for this offence may be. Should i let this take its course or admit to the SP30 offence.
In a previous letter, i asked for photographic evidence so that i could identify the driver (either my wife or i) and then fill in the NIP correctly. The response from Warwickshire Police was "unfortunately, you may not be able to establish who the driver was as the photographic evidence was taken by a rear facing camera". Does this put me in the clear? It is my understanding that, as they are looking to prosecute one person, it is down to them to identify said criminal!
Warwickshire Police have now sent me a letter stating that, because i cannot provide a name and address of a driver, they will be preparing a file and will issue a summons for the alleged offence of failing to provide the name and address of the driver.
Can anyone let me know what the penalty (fine/points) for this offence may be. Should i let this take its course or admit to the SP30 offence.
In a previous letter, i asked for photographic evidence so that i could identify the driver (either my wife or i) and then fill in the NIP correctly. The response from Warwickshire Police was "unfortunately, you may not be able to establish who the driver was as the photographic evidence was taken by a rear facing camera". Does this put me in the clear? It is my understanding that, as they are looking to prosecute one person, it is down to them to identify said criminal!
As I understand it the offence of "failing to provide driver identification" is 3pts £1000 max - and you can guess at what level the fine will be set...
There was some scuttlebutt about the points being increased to 6 - as clearly if you were speeding by a large margin 3pts £1000 seems like a bargain in comparison to a lengthy ban and/or a custodial sentence.
We could do with the real facts from one of our resident BiBs....
There was some scuttlebutt about the points being increased to 6 - as clearly if you were speeding by a large margin 3pts £1000 seems like a bargain in comparison to a lengthy ban and/or a custodial sentence.
We could do with the real facts from one of our resident BiBs....
gshughes said:
I think they are probably trying to scare you here, and if you stick with your position they will most likely eventually drop it, as they have in many other cases.
>> Edited by gshughes on Monday 10th November 09:59
Its not a matter of being scared or trying to scare. The man asked a question. I'll check my "Telegraph Guide To Motoring Law" book tonight as well.
Its a matter of weighing up the options and choosing to respond in a way that does the least damage to one's wallet, livelihood and lifestyle...
Don't bother checking your book. I've already put the possible punishments for the offeces.
I've also put full details on a previous link which says what sections fo the act you are breaching and the penalties etc.
I've put loads relating to NIP's on a previous threat somewhere if you want to hunt around.
from a BiB.
>> Edited by 318ti on Monday 10th November 14:11
I've also put full details on a previous link which says what sections fo the act you are breaching and the penalties etc.
I've put loads relating to NIP's on a previous threat somewhere if you want to hunt around.
from a BiB.
>> Edited by 318ti on Monday 10th November 14:11
Check out this page
www.safespeed.org.uk/avoid.html
it sounds like the 'Double Guilty' strategy might be the most relevant if you really cannot remember who was driving.
www.safespeed.org.uk/avoid.html
it sounds like the 'Double Guilty' strategy might be the most relevant if you really cannot remember who was driving.
Guys, apologies for posting in an ancient thread....
I have just received an NIP. 36 in a 30. Things is, the authorities have broken the signage regulations by placing mor than one informatory sign (Diagram 880) on the approach to the camera.
How many legs will I have to stand on if I contest this in court?
Anybody got any advice?
And what do I do with the NIP? If I am contesting that the signs are contrary to regulation, can I insist an offence has not taken place?
I have just received an NIP. 36 in a 30. Things is, the authorities have broken the signage regulations by placing mor than one informatory sign (Diagram 880) on the approach to the camera.
How many legs will I have to stand on if I contest this in court?
Anybody got any advice?
And what do I do with the NIP? If I am contesting that the signs are contrary to regulation, can I insist an offence has not taken place?
securespark said:
Guys, apologies for posting in an ancient thread....
I have just received an NIP. 36 in a 30. Things is, the authorities have broken the signage regulations by placing mor than one informatory sign (Diagram 880) on the approach to the camera.
How many legs will I have to stand on if I contest this in court?
Anybody got any advice?
And what do I do with the NIP? If I am contesting that the signs are contrary to regulation, can I insist an offence has not taken place?
The legal obligation on the Authorities is to sign THE SPEED LIMIT only. The informatory sign regarding the camera has no legal standing within the signing regime of the limit. Only breaches of the speed limit signing can lead to the arguement the limit is illegal and cannot be prosecuted.
Re the offence of failing to name. Penalty as stated above. Within the Road Safety Act currently resurrected and going through Parliament they intend to increase to 6 points.
Double zero.
The defence under Section 172 RTA 88 (fail to name ) is contained at Sub section 4 :
Person shall not be Guilty of offence if HE SHOWS that he DID NOT KNOW and COULD NOT with resonable diligence have ASCERTAINED who the driver was.
If you can build up a good case from the points above then the Magistrates may believe and acquit. At the end of the day it they, who have heard the tale many, many times,who have to be convinced.
The Hamiltons - mentioned elsewhere - were successful
in outlining exactly what you mention. Often referred to as "The Hamilton Defence" IIRC this was only a Mags decision to throw the case out and has no legal standing as a High Court precedence. Obviously it can be quoted at the lower Court and is.
DVD
DVD
As I understand it, if the signing regulations are breached, I may have a case.
A photo of the sign (apologies for poor reproduction due to flash!) can be seen at:
http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/i/Gatso.JPG
There are two on the approach to each camera.
>> Edited by securespark on Friday 10th June 10:08
As I understand it, if the signing regulations are breached, I may have a case.
A photo of the sign (apologies for poor reproduction due to flash!) can be seen at:
http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/i/Gatso.JPG
There are two on the approach to each camera.
>> Edited by securespark on Friday 10th June 10:08
securespark said:
DVD
As I understand it, if the signing regulations are breached, I may have a case.
A photo of the sign (apologies for poor reproduction due to flash!) can be seen at:
There are two on the approach to each camera.
The signs and camera are not exactly hidden from view.
What lack of camera signs?
There is a camera sign and there is a camera. What more do you want?
On the A24 they go one better, have a camera warning signing that flashes at you if you are over the limit. Its about a 100 yards before the camera. Wonder how Sussex pay for their cameras!
There is a camera sign and there is a camera. What more do you want?
On the A24 they go one better, have a camera warning signing that flashes at you if you are over the limit. Its about a 100 yards before the camera. Wonder how Sussex pay for their cameras!
chrisgr31 said:
What lack of camera signs?
There is a camera sign and there is a camera. What more do you want?
On the A24 they go one better, have a camera warning signing that flashes at you if you are over the limit. Its about a 100 yards before the camera. Wonder how Sussex pay for their cameras!
Good lord! A scamera partnership that doesnt scam? Punishment for breaking the law for those who meant to break the law, and did it even after warnings? WHat is the world coming to
securespark said:
DVD
As I understand it, if the signing regulations are breached, I may have a case.
A photo of the sign (apologies for poor reproduction due to flash!) can be seen at:
<a href="http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/i/Gatso.JPG">http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/i/Gatso.JPG</a>
There are two on the approach to each camera.
>> Edited by securespark on Friday 10th June 10:08
![http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/i/Gatso.JPG">](http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/i/Gatso.JPG">){kind=link}
Informatory sign only. Does not feature in the signs required for a speed limit under Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002.
DVD
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff