How many of you have ACTUALLY...
Discussion
...wriggled out of a speeding ticket recently? I see these billions of post giving advice but haven't yet seen ONE saying, "Yay - got my NFA letter through today!"
I was under the impression that all the loopholes caused by not signing etc had been closed with case law now. I'd be interested to find out if this isn't true.
Oh yes, while torching cameras before they get the film out (thanks Outlaw you nutter
) would undoubtedly make you feel better, I have heard also now that the cameras are being retro-fitted with fire proof film storage bins?
I was under the impression that all the loopholes caused by not signing etc had been closed with case law now. I'd be interested to find out if this isn't true.
Oh yes, while torching cameras before they get the film out (thanks Outlaw you nutter
) would undoubtedly make you feel better, I have heard also now that the cameras are being retro-fitted with fire proof film storage bins? 
I'm not at work ATM...it was posted on the PNLDB recently but can't recall which it was...search for 318ti's posts as he posted it a while back.
As for this being a public forum, fine, but I can't help notice the number of "I got flashed" posts compared to the number of "I got off posts" is about 100:1. Which means something isn't working...
As for this being a public forum, fine, but I can't help notice the number of "I got flashed" posts compared to the number of "I got off posts" is about 100:1. Which means something isn't working...
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=1&f=10&t=20474&h=0
Not a loophole. Just common sense prevailing and getting a lawyer to let the opposition know he'd been instructed to take up the matter.
DAZ
Not a loophole. Just common sense prevailing and getting a lawyer to let the opposition know he'd been instructed to take up the matter.
DAZ
I have - October 14th was my day in court and I walked away with zero points, zero fine and costs awarded. I used the unsigned loophole.
I also got a mate off an offence in South Wales at a similar time I was dealing with mine. His case was dropped since Gwent Constabulary had no evidence he was guilty. Scanned letter from that is here (the writing is theirs, believe it or not):
http://212.69.203.235/forumimages/WelshCaseDropped.jpg
EDIT - Shoulda said we used the unsigned route in my mate's case also, so note the date on the letter. Loophole closed, my arse!
>> Edited by FastShow on Wednesday 19th November 10:56
I also got a mate off an offence in South Wales at a similar time I was dealing with mine. His case was dropped since Gwent Constabulary had no evidence he was guilty. Scanned letter from that is here (the writing is theirs, believe it or not):
http://212.69.203.235/forumimages/WelshCaseDropped.jpg
EDIT - Shoulda said we used the unsigned route in my mate's case also, so note the date on the letter. Loophole closed, my arse!
>> Edited by FastShow on Wednesday 19th November 10:56
Well I *know* that the loophole still exists. I don't think it will be possible to close it, without causing major shockwaves in the legal community. If it were closed, it makes "guilty until proven innocent" become the reality, and that would be unconstitutional in a modern society... Iran or Iraq maybe, but not the UK. We shouldn't forget that we have long standing rights that are in danger of being lost here. It ain't just about speed cameras.
I'm with Madant on this one.
I'm sure loads of speeding cases get dropped just 'cos plod don't wan't to invest in chasing them all.
(Putting a talivan driver in court for a day costs 25k revenue!)
However I personally bet the loop hole makes no odds at all!
My legal advice last time was always drag it out and go to court.
Next time I'm going to reply saying "I can prove my car was there at the time and wish to argue this case in caught."
If they ask for up front evidence I'll say no, will deal with it in court.
*If* it goes to court I'll just plead guilty.
I bet a few get dropped.
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Wednesday 19th November 11:15
I'm sure loads of speeding cases get dropped just 'cos plod don't wan't to invest in chasing them all.
(Putting a talivan driver in court for a day costs 25k revenue!)
However I personally bet the loop hole makes no odds at all!
My legal advice last time was always drag it out and go to court.
Next time I'm going to reply saying "I can prove my car was there at the time and wish to argue this case in caught."
If they ask for up front evidence I'll say no, will deal with it in court.
*If* it goes to court I'll just plead guilty.
I bet a few get dropped.
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Wednesday 19th November 11:15
toad_oftoadhall said:
If they ask for up front evidence I'll say no, will deal with it in court.
*If* it goes to court I'll just plead guilty.
Erm... but I did go to court and I pled not guilty. My case was heard and dropped on the basis of no evidence. Everyone who was requested to attend did so. The prosecutor was there, they had their argument ready, the money was invested and I still won.
How can you possibly say the loophole doesn't exist?
FFS, I got off in a Magistrates' court and they have a 96% conviction rate! If that doesn't prove the point, nothing does.
FastShow said:
How can you possibly say the loophole doesn't exist?
FFS, I got off in a Magistrates' court and they have a 96% conviction rate! If that doesn't prove the point, nothing does.
What's the ratio of let off's to guiltys though?
I've seen people on this site who've been done for failure to ID.
toad_oftoadhall said:
What's the ratio of let off's to guiltys though?
I've seen people on this site who've been done for failure to ID.
No idea on the ratio, and yes people are now being summonsed for s172 offences (failing to ID), but they have no legal basis to find them guilty. Of course this doesn't stop the Magistrates doing so, what with most of them being partners in the 'Safety Camera' Partnerships, and all. An appeal should easily put that right though.
Besides, Idris Francis was found guilty on this count in October and has an appeal in progress - until that is heard, anyone summonsed for S172 offences in unsigned cases should write to the CPS and request their case is adjourned until the law is clarified by way of that appeal.
Until that time comes around, you could always use the new and improved loophole where your 'agent' deals with the S172 notice on your behalf - this has been upheld in the High Court in Dwight Yorke's case.
>> Edited by FastShow on Wednesday 19th November 11:50
toad_oftoadhall said:
Agree but Mag's still find most guilty! So unless you can afford to appeal not signing doesn't often work!
That's why you request your case be adjourned until Idris' appeal is heard. Failing that, if you're found guilty, you can join your appeal with his to save on costs. Failing that, you can lay down and let it lie, then if Idris wins, you get your conviction overturned.
There are still many, many ways out - this loophole is far from dead. Yeah, you've gotta stick at it, but the rewards will be there if you do. Not only that, but you'll get right on the SCP's tits as well.
FastShow said:
Agree but Mag's still find most guilty! So unless you can afford to appeal not signing doesn't often work!
That's why you request your case be adjourned until Idris' appeal is heard. Failing that, if you're found guilty, you can join your appeal with his to save on costs. Failing that, you can lay down and let it lie, then if Idris wins, you get your conviction overturned.
There are still many, many ways out - this loophole is far from dead. Yeah, you've gotta stick at it, but the rewards will be there if you do. Not only that, but you'll get right on the SCP's tits as well.
Hear Hear!
Good man, give him a refund! hang on a mo. If you tell them who was driving, you have supplied the information. Not signing it does not take that away. Aren't you forgetting this? no one can force you to sign a document. They are not asking for a signature on the NIP, just information.
(Information. We need information. By hook or by crook we'll get it. - Number 2)
(Information. We need information. By hook or by crook we'll get it. - Number 2)
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