How can people just walk past?!
Discussion
Saturday night, had a couple of pints and was walking back to the car with my girlfriend (designated driver! 
). We walked past a man and a woman pressed against each other in a doorway - thought they were 'gettin jiggy'. Next thing I know, i hear a scream and go back - the bastard is only clouting her one! He kept grabbing her head and smacking it into the glass of the shop! He was a scary looking Mofo, so I called 999 and followed them at a distance until Police arrived.
What really, and I mean REALLY, infuriated me, was the fact that about 4 or 5 people just walked straight on past, despite the fact that he was giving her a good hiding, and most of those people were blokes - or groups of blokes. They just couldn't care less. Unbelievable.
Anyway, they arrested the pair of them - one of the Coppers in attendance looked rather surprised when I said i'd be happy to give a statement - I wondered why.......until I'd realised the time it took to write a statement - finally left at 2:30am! Jeez.
). We walked past a man and a woman pressed against each other in a doorway - thought they were 'gettin jiggy'. Next thing I know, i hear a scream and go back - the bastard is only clouting her one! He kept grabbing her head and smacking it into the glass of the shop! He was a scary looking Mofo, so I called 999 and followed them at a distance until Police arrived. What really, and I mean REALLY, infuriated me, was the fact that about 4 or 5 people just walked straight on past, despite the fact that he was giving her a good hiding, and most of those people were blokes - or groups of blokes. They just couldn't care less. Unbelievable.
Anyway, they arrested the pair of them - one of the Coppers in attendance looked rather surprised when I said i'd be happy to give a statement - I wondered why.......until I'd realised the time it took to write a statement - finally left at 2:30am! Jeez.
True story - someone I know recently witnessed a very similar thing. He didn't just walk past but challenged the male and in return got threatened. Because the male continued to beat a female this person I know decided to restrain the male, resulting in him having a bit of a brawl as he tried to stop him from beating a girl.
Police intervened and arrested both. Person I know charged for assaulting the male despite witness evidence that he was trying to help. Police said to him that by him using force to stop this was no different from the other bloke beating the girl!
Police intervened and arrested both. Person I know charged for assaulting the male despite witness evidence that he was trying to help. Police said to him that by him using force to stop this was no different from the other bloke beating the girl!
My girlfriend stopped me intervening - I wouldnt have actually grabbed him, but I was going to try and talk him into not hitting her. I feel pretty sure though, that he would have laid into me instead.
Having to stand by and watch a girl get assaulted is one of the worst things i've ever done - all i could do is stand there with my phone to my ear. In this day and age though, it would have been foolhardy of me to try and get involved.
Tis a scary world out there folks
Having to stand by and watch a girl get assaulted is one of the worst things i've ever done - all i could do is stand there with my phone to my ear. In this day and age though, it would have been foolhardy of me to try and get involved.
Tis a scary world out there folks
minghis said:
True story - someone I know recently witnessed a very similar thing. He didn't just walk past but challenged the male and in return got threatened. Because the male continued to beat a female this person I know decided to restrain the male, resulting in him having a bit of a brawl as he tried to stop him from beating a girl.
Police intervened and arrested both. Person I know charged for assaulting the male despite witness evidence that he was trying to help. Police said to him that by him using force to stop this was no different from the other bloke beating the girl!
Eh?
I thought you could defend someone else under self defence?
That just f**king stinks.
minghis said:
True story - someone I know recently witnessed a very similar thing. He didn't just walk past but challenged the male and in return got threatened. Because the male continued to beat a female this person I know decided to restrain the male, resulting in him having a bit of a brawl as he tried to stop him from beating a girl.
Police intervened and arrested both. Person I know charged for assaulting the male despite witness evidence that he was trying to help. Police said to him that by him using force to stop this was no different from the other bloke beating the girl!
what a pile of shit country we've allowed to happen under our noses
That is ridiculous...
I guess the only option we have left for self defense or defending others now is cave their heads in and run away...great.
Added: Or i guess we can just offer them the opportunity to cave our heads in, and hope they get done...yeah right...
>> Edited by hedders on Monday 24th November 10:51
I guess the only option we have left for self defense or defending others now is cave their heads in and run away...great.
Added: Or i guess we can just offer them the opportunity to cave our heads in, and hope they get done...yeah right...
>> Edited by hedders on Monday 24th November 10:51
>Police said to him that by him using force to stop this was no different from the other bloke beating the girl!
Basically in the eyes of the law - self defense is allowed that allows you to get away - eg if you knock someone over - thats the last hit you get, because once they're down you should have had "amplel time" to get away.
thats like if someone burgles your house and you hurt them, you can get done - if they werent doing it in the first plaec it wouldnt have happened
Many of the people that I know that do MMA & self defense related stuff -hit first - pray later.(along those lines) I am not into "fighting all the time" or anything shit like that, but what I mean is that if it came down to it I would sort out the crap there and then and deal with the consequences later. What if you were waiting for the police to come and the guy pulled out a knife and stabbed the girl? There is often no substitute for action I'm afraid.
Basically in the eyes of the law - self defense is allowed that allows you to get away - eg if you knock someone over - thats the last hit you get, because once they're down you should have had "amplel time" to get away.
thats like if someone burgles your house and you hurt them, you can get done - if they werent doing it in the first plaec it wouldnt have happened
Many of the people that I know that do MMA & self defense related stuff -hit first - pray later.(along those lines) I am not into "fighting all the time" or anything shit like that, but what I mean is that if it came down to it I would sort out the crap there and then and deal with the consequences later. What if you were waiting for the police to come and the guy pulled out a knife and stabbed the girl? There is often no substitute for action I'm afraid.
I have seen many an instance of men beating up others and have always stepped in. Mostly I have been the only one who has done anything.
I have never been hit yet nor charged or interviewed by the police for any of these. The reason being, that I have only ever restained.
I would always do this as I cannot stand to see anyone being hurt.
I have never been hit yet nor charged or interviewed by the police for any of these. The reason being, that I have only ever restained.
I would always do this as I cannot stand to see anyone being hurt.
People will always just walk past. It's a sad fact of life. A mate of mine in Plymouth got beaten up by two youths in broad daylight. Whilst it was happening, someone came up and asked his attackers if they would be at a certain pub later for a drink!
Of course with a domestic, there's always the problem that if you intervene, both parties may turn on you. A former student of my Sensei found this out when he stopped a guy who was hitting his girlfriend. Whilst he restained the guy, the girlfriend started hitting him because he wouldn't let her boyfriend go
Anyway, I'd always get involved if I thought I'd make a difference. Mainly because I'd like to think if I was in trouble, someone would help me.
Sheepy
Of course with a domestic, there's always the problem that if you intervene, both parties may turn on you. A former student of my Sensei found this out when he stopped a guy who was hitting his girlfriend. Whilst he restained the guy, the girlfriend started hitting him because he wouldn't let her boyfriend go
Anyway, I'd always get involved if I thought I'd make a difference. Mainly because I'd like to think if I was in trouble, someone would help me.
Sheepy
I've recently read a book where they gave the results of some experiments. Basically an actor pretends to be seriously ill at the side of a street. The idea is to see how much help they get.
The results were the opposite of what may be expected. When the street was busy they got ignored. They put this down to everyone assuming that someone else had or would help!
When the street wasn't very busy - as soon as someone comes past they ask if they need any help. This is the opposite with people thinking "No one else is about so I better do something about this."
I'd say a big
to all those out there who do make an effort to help others!
The results were the opposite of what may be expected. When the street was busy they got ignored. They put this down to everyone assuming that someone else had or would help!
When the street wasn't very busy - as soon as someone comes past they ask if they need any help. This is the opposite with people thinking "No one else is about so I better do something about this."
I'd say a big
to all those out there who do make an effort to help others!minghis said:
Police said to him that by him using force to stop this was no different from the other bloke beating the girl!
Another "more to this story" special. Here is my response based on what I read in your post. I wasn't there, OK?
Assuming your mate didn't go over the top and pummel the male then he was entitled to use reasonable force to prevent a crime (ie the assault on the female).
So the what the police told him was total b0110x.
Assuming then that the policeman was on drugs, ill-informed or just plain crap, the CJD dept and the CPS would NOT have run this.
But they seem to have done...
Assuming then that the CPS let it run and he actually got convicted, then I have to say that this episode is so bad it sucks and blows at the same time...
Your mate, if he did what he said he did (and only what he said he did!) would have at LEAST got a letter of thanks from our Chief, and a recommendation for a CPA award.
[offtopicmodeon}
I was once struggling with a crook who had me over the bonnet of my car and definitely had the upper hand. A passing MOP calmly walked over and decked the crook for me.
He got a letter of thanks AND a judges commendation. I hate to think where the help is going to come from next time it happens
Sorry but if I saw anything like this happening I would have to wade in and sod the consequences. Went though something similar with my 16 yr old son earlier this year. He was assulted in broad daylight by 6 yoofs outside a cinema, he defended himself and tried to get away. We were told by the BiB that he could be charged with assulting them!
The CID guy who came to see us after catching the scrotes (it was all caught on CCTV) said he has seen the cctv and Mike (my son) has a good right hook! and he should take up a martial art (the CID guy is an instructor) and told us there was no way they would try to stick him with assult. So common sense prevails, despite what you read in the papers.
Alan
The CID guy who came to see us after catching the scrotes (it was all caught on CCTV) said he has seen the cctv and Mike (my son) has a good right hook! and he should take up a martial art (the CID guy is an instructor) and told us there was no way they would try to stick him with assult. So common sense prevails, despite what you read in the papers.
Alan
Another example.
Drunk male 1 goes into male 2's garden and steals some flowers.
Male 2 tells male 1 to sod off.
Male 1 comes at male 2 in a threatening manner.
Male 2 hits male 1 (once) and breaks his jaw in 3 places.
Male 2 NOT arrested, evidence given in form of voluntary interview. I liaise with CJD and CPS. No case to answer.
Technically this was a GBH - BUT because male 2 hit male 1 ONCE the force used was reasonable (the injury caused is irrelevant.) So if you pushed this sad ponce off the female in the alley and he tripped over into the path of a brick lorry and got squished, in theory you'd be ok.
Don't try it at home though
Drunk male 1 goes into male 2's garden and steals some flowers.
Male 2 tells male 1 to sod off.
Male 1 comes at male 2 in a threatening manner.
Male 2 hits male 1 (once) and breaks his jaw in 3 places.
Male 2 NOT arrested, evidence given in form of voluntary interview. I liaise with CJD and CPS. No case to answer.
Technically this was a GBH - BUT because male 2 hit male 1 ONCE the force used was reasonable (the injury caused is irrelevant.) So if you pushed this sad ponce off the female in the alley and he tripped over into the path of a brick lorry and got squished, in theory you'd be ok.
Don't try it at home though
I lived in Bournemouth for a while. One night some friends and I went for a bike ride down the promenade. We saw two guys hitting a girl who was on the floor. The only way I can think to describe the guys was "crusties" - you know? White guys with dreadlocks, dogs on ropes, army boots, drinking cider.
We stopped and asked what was going on. The hitting continued so one friend held the guy back. Then the girl started hitting my friend whilst the other guy pulls a knife on another friend!
Somehow we got to a sort of standoff (knife or not there were 5 of us and 3 of them). Seeing as they seemed to have stopped fighting (each other) we left them to it.
Seemed like craziness at the time.
We stopped and asked what was going on. The hitting continued so one friend held the guy back. Then the girl started hitting my friend whilst the other guy pulls a knife on another friend!
Somehow we got to a sort of standoff (knife or not there were 5 of us and 3 of them). Seeing as they seemed to have stopped fighting (each other) we left them to it.
Seemed like craziness at the time.
madant69 said:madant69 - let me modify that scenario a little and see what happens ...
Another example.
Drunk male 1 goes into male 2's garden and steals some flowers.
Male 2 tells male 1 to sod off.
Male 1 comes at male 2 in a threatening manner.
Male 2 hits male 1 (once) and breaks his jaw in 3 places.
Male 2 NOT arrested, evidence given in form of voluntary interview. I liaise with CJD and CPS. No case to answer.
Technically this was a GBH - BUT because male 2 hit male 1 ONCE the force used was reasonable (the injury caused is irrelevant.) So if you pushed this sad ponce off the female in the alley and he tripped over into the path of a brick lorry and got squished, in theory you'd be ok.
Don't try it at home though
A) Male 2 hits male 1 (once) and male 1 falls backwards onto garden wall crushing occiput and causing death.
B) Male 2 hits male 1 (once) and male 1 falls backwards onto garden wall severely damaging cervical vertibrae and causing quadraplegia.
What are criminal charges are likely to be brought against male 2 in both cases ... and what are the potential outcomes?
Streaky
I got called to a bus and went upstairs to have three black youths pointed out to me who had refused to pay/get off the bus. I was quite cocky in those days and started to go to them when one started to shape up. The thought that went through my mind was that no-one knew where I was, the bus was a difficult place to practice my self defence techniques and all three were big lads.
There was a black man, about 50, in a seat near to them. He half stood up and landed a left hook on the kid shaping up. He went down immediately.
I said to the other two, "Unless you want more of the same, pick your friend up and get off the bus." Which they did.
The bloke who landed the punch was 5'8" and almost non-descript, the sort of bloke you'd pass in the street without noticing, yet it was the best punch I've ever seen.
Thanks, mate. You taught me to treat everyone with care and not to go on appearance.
I get involved a lot off duty although I don't always flash my warrant card. Just imagine if it was your wife/girlfriend or relative who was being beaten. Use an action that will ensure that the person cannot get back at you. Kick them in the side of the knee, or emasculate them from behind. There's no need to wait for retaliation, just walk off if he's lost interest in beating the person.
I feel you should do something, even if it is only phoning the police and staying around. Don't pass on the other side. We all have responsibilities and this is one of them.
I've had to deal with a chap who had been hit in the face with a steel dustbin lid by a girl he was messing about. She ran off so I couldn't charge him but his nose was a mess.
There are lots of places that teach self-defence techniques - I used take classes myself. Go for those that just involve you getting away if attacked, don't try to arrest or retaliate. There are simple techniques when parking, if you are involved in an accident and even when stopping in a queue of traffic. All sensible.
If you are being attacked, smash someone's window. They are more likely to call the police then. If the police suggest they might consider a prosecution for criminal damage, just say that you thought that, if the person knew the circumstances of the attack, they would have understood and agreed to the damage.
You don't have to believe it, just say it. Lawyers do it all the time.
There was a black man, about 50, in a seat near to them. He half stood up and landed a left hook on the kid shaping up. He went down immediately.
I said to the other two, "Unless you want more of the same, pick your friend up and get off the bus." Which they did.
The bloke who landed the punch was 5'8" and almost non-descript, the sort of bloke you'd pass in the street without noticing, yet it was the best punch I've ever seen.
Thanks, mate. You taught me to treat everyone with care and not to go on appearance.
I get involved a lot off duty although I don't always flash my warrant card. Just imagine if it was your wife/girlfriend or relative who was being beaten. Use an action that will ensure that the person cannot get back at you. Kick them in the side of the knee, or emasculate them from behind. There's no need to wait for retaliation, just walk off if he's lost interest in beating the person.
I feel you should do something, even if it is only phoning the police and staying around. Don't pass on the other side. We all have responsibilities and this is one of them.
I've had to deal with a chap who had been hit in the face with a steel dustbin lid by a girl he was messing about. She ran off so I couldn't charge him but his nose was a mess.
There are lots of places that teach self-defence techniques - I used take classes myself. Go for those that just involve you getting away if attacked, don't try to arrest or retaliate. There are simple techniques when parking, if you are involved in an accident and even when stopping in a queue of traffic. All sensible.
If you are being attacked, smash someone's window. They are more likely to call the police then. If the police suggest they might consider a prosecution for criminal damage, just say that you thought that, if the person knew the circumstances of the attack, they would have understood and agreed to the damage.
You don't have to believe it, just say it. Lawyers do it all the time.
Mad Dave said:
Saturday night, had a couple of pints and was walking back to the car with my girlfriend (designated driver!
What really, and I mean REALLY, infuriated me, was the fact that about 4 or 5 people just walked straight on past, despite the fact that he was giving her a good hiding, and most of those people were blokes - or groups of blokes. They just couldn't care less. Unbelievable.
Anyway, they arrested the pair of them - one of the Coppers in attendance looked rather surprised when I said i'd be happy to give a statement - I wondered why.......until I'd realised the time it took to write a statement - finally left at 2:30am! Jeez.
Charming!
How would you feel if you girlfriend had come in one night black and blue after being assulted?
How would you then feel if she told you someone had saw everything but then left her?
I'd rather be arrested and done for assult than watch an innocent person (specially a girl) get assulted.
And im talking from experiance here.....of being a victim.
lemmonie said:
Charming!
How would you feel if you girlfriend had come in one night black and blue after being assulted?
How would you then feel if she told you someone had saw everything but then left her?
I'd rather be arrested and done for assult than watch an innocent person (specially a girl) get assulted.
And im talking from experiance here.....of being a victim.
Hang on a minute, I saw him clouting her, i called the Police. Twice. I followed the couple, put myself close to them at one point and got some very scary looks from the bloke. He knew I was watching them and stopped hitting her because I was there. I waited there (in an adjacent phone box as it happens!) until the Police car drove past. I then ran down the road after it, avoiding moving traffic and flagged it down. I then sat in a Police station for 2 hours giving a statement.
You may disagree, but I don't think I did too bad under the circumstances! Im not a big built guy, I don't know the first thing about standing up for myself and I feel certain if i'd tried to restrain him he would have kicked my head in, or worse. When the Police arrested him, his girlfriend went mad at them saying he hadnt done anything and they had to arrest her too.
Youre right, I wouldnt want my girlfriend to be hurt but at the end of the day I did everything in my power to do, i didnt just say '
it' and walk on by and leave her to a good kicking. What good would I have been to her or anyone else if i'd have been lying in the gutter bleeding? [rant off]
>> Edited by Mad Dave on Monday 24th November 16:49
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