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www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-2-906055,00.html
November 24, 2003
Drivers told to identify rogue speed cameras
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
THE Department for Transport is asking drivers to alert it to any speed camera that they believe is either hidden or failing to improve road safety.
Ministers are alarmed by the growing public hostility to the cameras, which generate more than a million speeding fines each year.
Alistair Darling, the Transport Secretary, has ordered police forces to review Britain’s 4,500 cameras and identify those that catch the most drivers. Mr Darling said: “The best and most effective camera would be the one that doesn’t issue a single ticket. Any camera that continues to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds in fines is failing.
“It may well be in the right place — the number of people caught speeding proves that — but it is failing to change driver behaviour. In these areas we must do more to warn drivers of the dangers of excessive speed. We don’t want your money. We want to keep you alive.”
Forces will be told either to make cameras more conspicuous or to erect more signs to warn approaching drivers.
Mr Darling has come under intense pressure from motoring groups and tabloid newspapers, which have accused the Government of targeting normally law-abiding drivers.
Police forces keep most of the money generated by speed camera fines to cover the costs of enforcement. The remainder goes to the Treasury.
In the year to March 2002, the eight forces piloting the “cash for cameras” scheme raised £17 million in fines. They kept £12 million and paid £5 million to the Government. A total of 42 forces have now joined the scheme and seven more will join in January, leaving Durham as the only force with no fixed speed cameras.
All forces must adhere to strict rules on the visibility of cameras and the crash record of roads. A fixed camera can be installed only on a stretch of road that has seen four deaths or serious injuries in the previous three years. Only two deaths or serious injuries over the same period are needed to justify using a mobile camera.
However, these rules only came into force in 2000. Speed cameras began to appear in 1992 and about 500 cameras were erected before 2000.
A spokesman for the department said: “If people think that cameras are in the wrong places or that they are not meeting our criteria, they should let us know. They should write in to the department. After the initial peak when a camera is installed, the number of tickets issued should show a declining trend. We might see a lot more signs or cameras being moved a short distance to make them more conspicuous.”
But National Safety Camera Partnerships (NSCP), which represents forces with cameras, said that only a very brave chief constable would authorise the removal of a camera. A spokeswoman said: “Very serious questions would be asked if someone was killed on a road from which a speed camera had been removed.”
NSCP this month responded to criticism that some cameras were difficult to spot by publishing maps showing the location of each speed trap. They are on its website: www.nationalsafetycameras.co.uk.
November 24, 2003
Drivers told to identify rogue speed cameras
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
THE Department for Transport is asking drivers to alert it to any speed camera that they believe is either hidden or failing to improve road safety.
Ministers are alarmed by the growing public hostility to the cameras, which generate more than a million speeding fines each year.
Alistair Darling, the Transport Secretary, has ordered police forces to review Britain’s 4,500 cameras and identify those that catch the most drivers. Mr Darling said: “The best and most effective camera would be the one that doesn’t issue a single ticket. Any camera that continues to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds in fines is failing.
“It may well be in the right place — the number of people caught speeding proves that — but it is failing to change driver behaviour. In these areas we must do more to warn drivers of the dangers of excessive speed. We don’t want your money. We want to keep you alive.”
Forces will be told either to make cameras more conspicuous or to erect more signs to warn approaching drivers.
Mr Darling has come under intense pressure from motoring groups and tabloid newspapers, which have accused the Government of targeting normally law-abiding drivers.
Police forces keep most of the money generated by speed camera fines to cover the costs of enforcement. The remainder goes to the Treasury.
In the year to March 2002, the eight forces piloting the “cash for cameras” scheme raised £17 million in fines. They kept £12 million and paid £5 million to the Government. A total of 42 forces have now joined the scheme and seven more will join in January, leaving Durham as the only force with no fixed speed cameras.
All forces must adhere to strict rules on the visibility of cameras and the crash record of roads. A fixed camera can be installed only on a stretch of road that has seen four deaths or serious injuries in the previous three years. Only two deaths or serious injuries over the same period are needed to justify using a mobile camera.
However, these rules only came into force in 2000. Speed cameras began to appear in 1992 and about 500 cameras were erected before 2000.
A spokesman for the department said: “If people think that cameras are in the wrong places or that they are not meeting our criteria, they should let us know. They should write in to the department. After the initial peak when a camera is installed, the number of tickets issued should show a declining trend. We might see a lot more signs or cameras being moved a short distance to make them more conspicuous.”
But National Safety Camera Partnerships (NSCP), which represents forces with cameras, said that only a very brave chief constable would authorise the removal of a camera. A spokeswoman said: “Very serious questions would be asked if someone was killed on a road from which a speed camera had been removed.”
NSCP this month responded to criticism that some cameras were difficult to spot by publishing maps showing the location of each speed trap. They are on its website: www.nationalsafetycameras.co.uk.
Le TVR said:
Says 'page cant be found'...
does that mean they are all hidden then??
try this:
www.nationalsafetycameras.co.uk
"Mr Darling said: The best and most effective camera would be the one that doesn’t issue a single ticket. Any camera that continues to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds in fines is failing."
F**k me!! an MP said this?! does this mean all the pro camera lobbyists are wrong? shurely shome mishtake
One of the worst offenders used to be on the A45 between Birmingham Airport and Coventry. It was on the eastbound carriageway (50mph limit) just after the juction with the M42...... it was completely hidden by a roadsign for the A446/A45 junction.
The Scamera was positioned less than six feet behind the roadsign, and therefore you had absolutely no chance of seeing it except in your rear view mirror!
I was on that road earlier this week, and noticed that the road sign had been changed so that it site higher up, and the camera is now visible underneath..... that one was a blatent revenue earner.....
The Scamera was positioned less than six feet behind the roadsign, and therefore you had absolutely no chance of seeing it except in your rear view mirror!
I was on that road earlier this week, and noticed that the road sign had been changed so that it site higher up, and the camera is now visible underneath..... that one was a blatent revenue earner.....
One of the worst offenders used to be on the A45 between Birmingham Airport and Coventry. It was on the eastbound carriageway (50mph limit) just after the juction with the M42...... it was completely hidden by a roadsign for the A446/A45 junction.
The Scamera was positioned less than six feet behind the roadsign, and therefore you had absolutely no chance of seeing it except in your rear view mirror!
I was on that road earlier this week, and noticed that the road sign had been changed so that it sits higher up, and the camera is now visible underneath..... that one was a blatent revenue earner.....
The Scamera was positioned less than six feet behind the roadsign, and therefore you had absolutely no chance of seeing it except in your rear view mirror!
I was on that road earlier this week, and noticed that the road sign had been changed so that it sits higher up, and the camera is now visible underneath..... that one was a blatent revenue earner.....
cazzo said:
“It may well be in the right place — the number of people caught speeding proves that — but it is failing to change driver behaviour. In these areas we must do more to warn drivers of the dangers of excessive speed.
There seems to be an assumption here that speed cameras are always the best way to tackle accident black spots. Surely this is a wild leap of faith. Especially if a large number of people keep exceeding the limit, since this suggests they all feel it is safe to drive faster than the limit hence enforcing the limit is unlikely to improve safety.
VICTORMELDREW said:
Theres at least three on the A666 into Bolton on a 50mph stretch (which is dual cabbageway and the 50 limit is doubtful anyway), all of which are hidden behind other road furniture. Shameless revenue generators, no safety impact at all.
3 in each direction, only one of which is visible and 2 of the 3 are on slight bends which according to the user instruction of the camera itself, shouldn't be done. They should be on a straight stretch of road a certain distance in length !
This "Times" report appeared on another thread yesterday, so I went to the DETR website to bring a few blatant revenue-earners to their attention 
There was a "contact us" link, but I couldn't find an e-mail address to which to send send my "observations"
Perhaps I was being a bit thick at the time (I had just come back from the pub .....
) but if anybody else can find one, please post an address here.
Or is it, as I half expect, a bit like that scene from the "Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy" - where the planning application was "on display" in a flooded cellar, at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, behind a locked door marked "Beware of the leopard
There was a "contact us" link, but I couldn't find an e-mail address to which to send send my "observations"
Perhaps I was being a bit thick at the time (I had just come back from the pub .....
) but if anybody else can find one, please post an address here. Or is it, as I half expect, a bit like that scene from the "Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy" - where the planning application was "on display" in a flooded cellar, at the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, behind a locked door marked "Beware of the leopard
Whilst trawlling through the DfT website, I came across this quote from Alistair Darling from February 2003, following the release of some government figures showing a decrease in fatalities at scamera sites.
Perhaps someone should remind him that he said that (like John Humphries on Today or Paxo on Newsnight
)
Alistair 'u-turn' Darling said:
Commenting on the report, Alistair Darling said:
"This report clearly shows that speed cameras are working. Speeds are down and so are deaths and injuries. Since the pilot began we have extended this scheme across the country. This means that more lives can be saved and more injuries avoided. It is quite clear that speeding is dangerous and causes too much suffering. I hope this reinforces the message that speed cameras are there to stop people speeding and make the roads safer. If you don't speed, you won't get a ticket."
Perhaps someone should remind him that he said that (like John Humphries on Today or Paxo on Newsnight
)Some good contacts to email if you want to report something dodgy about a road -
www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/contacts/ssr.htm
The only email address I can find for this would be
road.safety@dft.gsi.gov.uk
www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/contacts/ssr.htm
The only email address I can find for this would be
road.safety@dft.gsi.gov.uk
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