Parking ticket question
Discussion
Got a ticket on Saturday in Islington.
Not part of the mitigation but circumstances were because father in law had been rushed into hospital
and myself and wife had to be there with him to ensure all ok and be his ears (90yrs old and deaf as a post)
Parked in road by Whittington Hospital (they have no parking in the hospital at all).
Sign was this one or very similar. (one top right)
After nearly two hours I went back to car to move it to another space as there was a 2 hour limit.
So... I moved, drove around the block but ended up coming back to the same area and parked 1 car length from where I had been previously.
Bought another ticket which was valid until 12.58
Got a ticket at 12.01 which says "parked for longer than permitted" - code 30p
Now, I am assuming this is because they reckon that I was in the same place and had not moved.
But as the sign does not say "no return within xxx" do I have a chance of getting this cancelled as I had actually left and then parked again in a different spot.
Any advise appreciated.
thanks
Andy
Not part of the mitigation but circumstances were because father in law had been rushed into hospital
and myself and wife had to be there with him to ensure all ok and be his ears (90yrs old and deaf as a post)
Parked in road by Whittington Hospital (they have no parking in the hospital at all).
Sign was this one or very similar. (one top right)
After nearly two hours I went back to car to move it to another space as there was a 2 hour limit.
So... I moved, drove around the block but ended up coming back to the same area and parked 1 car length from where I had been previously.
Bought another ticket which was valid until 12.58
Got a ticket at 12.01 which says "parked for longer than permitted" - code 30p
Now, I am assuming this is because they reckon that I was in the same place and had not moved.
But as the sign does not say "no return within xxx" do I have a chance of getting this cancelled as I had actually left and then parked again in a different spot.
Any advise appreciated.
thanks
Andy
Edited by awager on Monday 25th May 20:09
Amused2death said:
Playing "Devil's adovocate" for a minute......Who's to say you didnt just roll the car back a space in an attempt to try and cirvumvent the two hour rule?
I think that the "two hour" bit would apply to the whole side of where you were parked.
I think that is probably what they will say as in fact the space I ended back in was the one directly in front of where I was initially..I think that the "two hour" bit would apply to the whole side of where you were parked.
Still going to give it a go though as at least with Islington you get a chance to challenge it within the first 14 days by e-mail and if they uphold it then you still get the "discount" for 14 days after their decision.
Paul1972 said:
I'm sure i've seen rules stating you shouldnt park in the same space within one hour. I'd have to argue it myself - do you have both tickets still?? I'd hope the council will drop it rather than spend loads of time arguing the point
I can't find anything about the "return within" rule. I thought it had to be on the signage.Going to give it a go though. Nothing to lose really and gives me a chance to have a pop at them about taking away the parking at the hospital.
Probably when the parking attendant wanders round & notes that your vehicle was there at such & such a time. And when they wander round a couple of hours later its still there.
Ours used to note things like that in their pocket book (same as we were issued with) but I would guess its all gone electrickery now.
Perhaps we could see a photo of the actual signs as you are a little vague in your original post.
Ours used to note things like that in their pocket book (same as we were issued with) but I would guess its all gone electrickery now.
Perhaps we could see a photo of the actual signs as you are a little vague in your original post.
Have you had a look through their website yet??
http://www.islington.gov.uk/Transport/RoadsAndPark...
Worth a look anyway. Good luck with it.
http://www.islington.gov.uk/Transport/RoadsAndPark...
Worth a look anyway. Good luck with it.
From Islington Parking Bible:
Contravention Code 30 – Suffixes fnopu
Parked for longer than permitted
When a vehicle is parked in a time limited bay or on yellow lines with a genuine and valid
Blue Badge and clock displayed for longer than permitted.
A PCN may be issued when the time shown on the clock has expired by longer than 15
minutes. If vehicle is attended, the driver will be asked to move on. If the driver refuses,
a PCN will be issued. Vehicles may be removed unless displaying a genuine and valid
Blue Badge or Health Emergency Badge, in which case vehicle may be relocated to
the nearest alternative space.
NOTE THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We ceased issuing Penalty Charge Notices for meter feeding contravention code 07 in
April 2007. However, the maximum length of stay of 1, 2 and 4 hours still apply.
Meter feeding is accepted providing the payments do not take the parking period
beyond the permitted 1, 2 or 4 hour maximum stay.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If a vehicle is still in situ after the maximum stay a contravention has been committed
regardless if there is remaining paid for time on a pay and display ticket.
Contravention code 30p parked for longer than permitted should be applied. The Civil
Enforcement Officer shall log the vehicle in the pay and display bay, where the vehicle
has paid to park beyond the maximum stay for that bay.
.....So presume where you got your ticket from or Meter then there would be some information of time limit.
If you have the first ticket and the second ticket then appeal and send them a photocopy of the two with you explanation as above. It may work.
dvd
Contravention Code 30 – Suffixes fnopu
Parked for longer than permitted
When a vehicle is parked in a time limited bay or on yellow lines with a genuine and valid
Blue Badge and clock displayed for longer than permitted.
A PCN may be issued when the time shown on the clock has expired by longer than 15
minutes. If vehicle is attended, the driver will be asked to move on. If the driver refuses,
a PCN will be issued. Vehicles may be removed unless displaying a genuine and valid
Blue Badge or Health Emergency Badge, in which case vehicle may be relocated to
the nearest alternative space.
NOTE THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We ceased issuing Penalty Charge Notices for meter feeding contravention code 07 in
April 2007. However, the maximum length of stay of 1, 2 and 4 hours still apply.
Meter feeding is accepted providing the payments do not take the parking period
beyond the permitted 1, 2 or 4 hour maximum stay.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If a vehicle is still in situ after the maximum stay a contravention has been committed
regardless if there is remaining paid for time on a pay and display ticket.
Contravention code 30p parked for longer than permitted should be applied. The Civil
Enforcement Officer shall log the vehicle in the pay and display bay, where the vehicle
has paid to park beyond the maximum stay for that bay.
.....So presume where you got your ticket from or Meter then there would be some information of time limit.
If you have the first ticket and the second ticket then appeal and send them a photocopy of the two with you explanation as above. It may work.
dvd
I think that this FPN would fail.
Doesn't say anything about 'no return' times, so, you parked for 2 hours, then started up the car so it was no longer parked, then you parked again starting another 2 hour parking limit.
The only thing you could have contravened was the no return, which it didn't have.
They've messed up with their signage, in my opinion.
Doesn't say anything about 'no return' times, so, you parked for 2 hours, then started up the car so it was no longer parked, then you parked again starting another 2 hour parking limit.
The only thing you could have contravened was the no return, which it didn't have.
They've messed up with their signage, in my opinion.
paintman said:
Probably when the parking attendant wanders round & notes that your vehicle was there at such & such a time. And when they wander round a couple of hours later its still there.
Ours used to note things like that in their pocket book (same as we were issued with) but I would guess its all gone electrickery now.
Perhaps we could see a photo of the actual signs as you are a little vague in your original post.
The signage is as per the OP sign in the top right (only the hours are different).Ours used to note things like that in their pocket book (same as we were issued with) but I would guess its all gone electrickery now.
Perhaps we could see a photo of the actual signs as you are a little vague in your original post.
It says on the Islington site that there "may" be pictures of the alleged offence but you have to wait 3 days to see them. No pictures there yet.
Dwight VanDriver said:
From Islington Parking Bible:
Contravention Code 30 – Suffixes fnopu
Parked for longer than permitted
When a vehicle is parked in a time limited bay or on yellow lines with a genuine and valid
Blue Badge and clock displayed for longer than permitted.
A PCN may be issued when the time shown on the clock has expired by longer than 15
minutes. If vehicle is attended, the driver will be asked to move on. If the driver refuses,
a PCN will be issued. Vehicles may be removed unless displaying a genuine and valid
Blue Badge or Health Emergency Badge, in which case vehicle may be relocated to
the nearest alternative space.
NOTE THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We ceased issuing Penalty Charge Notices for meter feeding contravention code 07 in
April 2007. However, the maximum length of stay of 1, 2 and 4 hours still apply.
Meter feeding is accepted providing the payments do not take the parking period
beyond the permitted 1, 2 or 4 hour maximum stay.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If a vehicle is still in situ after the maximum stay a contravention has been committed
regardless if there is remaining paid for time on a pay and display ticket.
Contravention code 30p parked for longer than permitted should be applied. The Civil
Enforcement Officer shall log the vehicle in the pay and display bay, where the vehicle
has paid to park beyond the maximum stay for that bay.
.....So presume where you got your ticket from or Meter then there would be some information of time limit.
If you have the first ticket and the second ticket then appeal and send them a photocopy of the two with you explanation as above. It may work.
dvd
DVD - yeah, I read all that. The way I see it is that I was not "in situ" after the max stay on the first ticket as I had moved out of the bay prior to the expiration of the time.Contravention Code 30 – Suffixes fnopu
Parked for longer than permitted
When a vehicle is parked in a time limited bay or on yellow lines with a genuine and valid
Blue Badge and clock displayed for longer than permitted.
A PCN may be issued when the time shown on the clock has expired by longer than 15
minutes. If vehicle is attended, the driver will be asked to move on. If the driver refuses,
a PCN will be issued. Vehicles may be removed unless displaying a genuine and valid
Blue Badge or Health Emergency Badge, in which case vehicle may be relocated to
the nearest alternative space.
NOTE THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
We ceased issuing Penalty Charge Notices for meter feeding contravention code 07 in
April 2007. However, the maximum length of stay of 1, 2 and 4 hours still apply.
Meter feeding is accepted providing the payments do not take the parking period
beyond the permitted 1, 2 or 4 hour maximum stay.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
If a vehicle is still in situ after the maximum stay a contravention has been committed
regardless if there is remaining paid for time on a pay and display ticket.
Contravention code 30p parked for longer than permitted should be applied. The Civil
Enforcement Officer shall log the vehicle in the pay and display bay, where the vehicle
has paid to park beyond the maximum stay for that bay.
.....So presume where you got your ticket from or Meter then there would be some information of time limit.
If you have the first ticket and the second ticket then appeal and send them a photocopy of the two with you explanation as above. It may work.
dvd
I then came back to a spot different (albeit only one car length in front of) to where I was first time and purchased another 2 hour ticket (the maximum time).
To me as there is nothing on the signage saying "no return within xx" then I was entitled to do so.
Got to go back up there today so will take another look at the sign and the pay machine itself and if nothing there will contest it on the fact that I had moved and reparked rather than just stayed and went over the 2 hours max "in situ".
All this for £40 but just p'ed off with the whole thing.
tks all
p.s. I have just had another look at their "bible" and there is a specific offence (code 22) of reparking within the same place within 1 hour of leaving but don't think this would apply in my case as that is not the code they are using.
Edited by awager on Tuesday 26th May 13:48
Edited by awager on Tuesday 26th May 13:50
As a thought.....what is the definition of the word "BAY"?
If its the specific space you were in then you may have a good case, but if it means the entire side of the road where you are parked, you may come unstuck.
I would expect the two hour max stay to be valid during the hours of operation of the restriction.
Either way, I hope you get a result
If its the specific space you were in then you may have a good case, but if it means the entire side of the road where you are parked, you may come unstuck.
I would expect the two hour max stay to be valid during the hours of operation of the restriction.
Either way, I hope you get a result
Amused2death said:
As a thought.....what is the definition of the word "BAY"?
If its the specific space you were in then you may have a good case, but if it means the entire side of the road where you are parked, you may come unstuck.
I would expect the two hour max stay to be valid during the hours of operation of the restriction.
Either way, I hope you get a result
Yeah, thought of that. These are not separate individual bays but rather just a marked out "bay" which about 6 or so cars can fit into.If its the specific space you were in then you may have a good case, but if it means the entire side of the road where you are parked, you may come unstuck.
I would expect the two hour max stay to be valid during the hours of operation of the restriction.
Either way, I hope you get a result
Going to give it a go anyway and contest it on the fact I left and came back some minutes later therefore a new 2 hour period should have started and see what happens.
tks
Amused2death said:
As a thought.....what is the definition of the word "BAY"?
If its the specific space you were in then you may have a good case, but if it means the entire side of the road where you are parked, you may come unstuck.
I would expect the two hour max stay to be valid during the hours of operation of the restriction.
Either way, I hope you get a result
Nothing in those signs says "no return within"; so the act of pulling out onto the main road and then returning should be counted as a new 2 hour period.If its the specific space you were in then you may have a good case, but if it means the entire side of the road where you are parked, you may come unstuck.
I would expect the two hour max stay to be valid during the hours of operation of the restriction.
Either way, I hope you get a result
A couple of years ago I was involved in a decriminalised parking scheme and spent ages attending presentations from the various suppliers of the hand-held computers that the parking attendants use. One common feature is the ability to quickly record the position of tyre valves, so that the PA can tell whether a vehicle has been moved since their previous visit to that parking bay.
If the signs don't say "no return within..." then it's upto the parking attendant to prove that the car hasn't moved. Photos or records of valve positions are usually accepted. If they can't prove that you hadn't moved you're fine.
If the signs don't say "no return within..." then it's upto the parking attendant to prove that the car hasn't moved. Photos or records of valve positions are usually accepted. If they can't prove that you hadn't moved you're fine.
RT106 said:
A couple of years ago I was involved in a decriminalised parking scheme and spent ages attending presentations from the various suppliers of the hand-held computers that the parking attendants use. One common feature is the ability to quickly record the position of tyre valves, so that the PA can tell whether a vehicle has been moved since their previous visit to that parking bay.
If the signs don't say "no return within..." then it's upto the parking attendant to prove that the car hasn't moved. Photos or records of valve positions are usually accepted. If they can't prove that you hadn't moved you're fine.
Thanks for that, I'll keep that in mind.If the signs don't say "no return within..." then it's upto the parking attendant to prove that the car hasn't moved. Photos or records of valve positions are usually accepted. If they can't prove that you hadn't moved you're fine.
I am waiting to see if they post any pictures of the "offence", giving them until tomorrow and then I will send my mail to contest it.
tks again for the info.
I think they will only provide photos at the time they issued the ticket - they certainly don't photograph every car they see!
I think an appeal will be accepted if you explain the circumstances and suggest that the parking attendant was mistaken in assuming that the vehicle had remained in the same place
I think an appeal will be accepted if you explain the circumstances and suggest that the parking attendant was mistaken in assuming that the vehicle had remained in the same place
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