Lane discipline on dual roads and motorways
Discussion
Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I would really appreciate some feedback from trafpol members regarding the topic of lane discipline on motorways and dual roads in the UK.
I travel often to my head office in Switzerland and drive on motorways in Germany. I have done this for nearly 20 years now and hired a car from the airport to drive to various locations.
Without exception during this time, the outside lane of the motorway or dual road is used for OVERTAKING. When the car has completed the task of overtaking, the driver returns to the middle or inside lane. Yes I know that in Germany the speed restrictions are different to the UK on some motorways, but in Switzerland they are similar to the UK. This lane discipline makes driving a joy in these countries.
My point is: Why in the UK does everyone insist on staying in the outside lane (overtaking lane) when the strip of road on their left hand side is completely free of traffic (sometimes for many hundreds of yards)?
Who is responsible for enforcing or educating UK motorists about lane discipline?
Will anybody take the responsibility or will it be left alone?
Very basic maths prove that if this lane discipline were enforced, journey time would be reduced, therefore less vehicles on the road.
Tony? anyone comment?
Cheers,
Ian.
I travel often to my head office in Switzerland and drive on motorways in Germany. I have done this for nearly 20 years now and hired a car from the airport to drive to various locations.
Without exception during this time, the outside lane of the motorway or dual road is used for OVERTAKING. When the car has completed the task of overtaking, the driver returns to the middle or inside lane. Yes I know that in Germany the speed restrictions are different to the UK on some motorways, but in Switzerland they are similar to the UK. This lane discipline makes driving a joy in these countries.
My point is: Why in the UK does everyone insist on staying in the outside lane (overtaking lane) when the strip of road on their left hand side is completely free of traffic (sometimes for many hundreds of yards)?
Who is responsible for enforcing or educating UK motorists about lane discipline?
Will anybody take the responsibility or will it be left alone?
Very basic maths prove that if this lane discipline were enforced, journey time would be reduced, therefore less vehicles on the road.
Tony? anyone comment?
Cheers,
Ian.
Yes, moving over when the inside lane is clear is obvious to all but the meanest intelligence.
Why lane hogging happens so much in the UK I just can't understand.
Driving in France is bliss because of their superior lane discipline and in many other countries too (and higher driving skills generally).
Why lane hogging happens so much in the UK I just can't understand.
Driving in France is bliss because of their superior lane discipline and in many other countries too (and higher driving skills generally).
we used to have lane discipline in the uk, but that was some time ago, now you do what you like and don't even have to signal and everybody has telepathic ability.
The person resonsible for educating britains motorists I believe is Mr Bean.
Sorry for the rant but narrowly missed Mrs Numpty today on the M27, as she joined and went straight to the middle lane.
The person resonsible for educating britains motorists I believe is Mr Bean.
Sorry for the rant but narrowly missed Mrs Numpty today on the M27, as she joined and went straight to the middle lane.
I firmly believe that people travel in the middle lane because it gives them a degree of 'comfort'.
We see it time and time again, people join Motorways etc and pull straight out into the centre lanes or worse, lane 3.
I would say that in most, not all, of these cases its down to the standard of the drivers ability being so low.The rest of the time, i would put it down to a 'lapse'. After all, we are all human.A habit becomes a habit when there is clear evidence that theres a trait.
Obviously, when you pass your driving test, you know the rules of the road. Sadly, in some drivers, once their test is passed, their standard of driving goes down instead of up.
Whenever we stop people, regardless of what the outcome of the stop is, we educate drivers and hope that they wont do it again.
We see it time and time again, people join Motorways etc and pull straight out into the centre lanes or worse, lane 3.
I would say that in most, not all, of these cases its down to the standard of the drivers ability being so low.The rest of the time, i would put it down to a 'lapse'. After all, we are all human.A habit becomes a habit when there is clear evidence that theres a trait.
Obviously, when you pass your driving test, you know the rules of the road. Sadly, in some drivers, once their test is passed, their standard of driving goes down instead of up.
Whenever we stop people, regardless of what the outcome of the stop is, we educate drivers and hope that they wont do it again.
It's a while since I drove in Italy but I recall being most impressed by the way they pulled in after overtaking. Germany, as I remarked in another thread, it is a necessity if you don't want to find some firebreathing porker or AMG merc right on your back bumper.
Elsewhere I'd say they were only marginally better.
Belgian lorry drivers get special training to enable them to pull out in front of you at the last second before you overtake them!
Elsewhere I'd say they were only marginally better.
Belgian lorry drivers get special training to enable them to pull out in front of you at the last second before you overtake them!
I've been yelling at people to move over for at least ten years now, so its not a new phenomenon. A possible part explanation was once offered by an old friend (now sadly deceased) who said that when motorways were all brand new, shiny and empty, drivers were taught to sit in lane 2 as it offered a 'double bug out'in case of emergency - you had two choices of lane to move to. It doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what he said.
My brother was a terrible lane 2 hogger until my constant moaning about it made him think a bit more. He's too young to have the above excuse, but used to say that he liked having space around him. I think thats what makes most numpties join CLOC - Centre Lane Owners Club.
My brother was a terrible lane 2 hogger until my constant moaning about it made him think a bit more. He's too young to have the above excuse, but used to say that he liked having space around him. I think thats what makes most numpties join CLOC - Centre Lane Owners Club.
Pure effing selfishness for one thing. Half of the CLOC 
can't be bothered with having to mirror indicate pull out, mirror move over again etc to use the inside lane, they would much rather, chat, smoke, eat, pick nose, talk on phone, daydream than actually DRIVE their 
1ng car! It makes me so angry 
The other half are so scared of driving on the Motorway that they will sit there without overtaking in the hope they will have to do nothing else but steer.
In the words of my mates Auntie and Uncle [oldpersonswhiningvoice] "we just feel the middle lane is sometimes the safest place to be"[oldpersonswhiningvoice]
can't be bothered with having to mirror indicate pull out, mirror move over again etc to use the inside lane, they would much rather, chat, smoke, eat, pick nose, talk on phone, daydream than actually DRIVE their 1ng car! It makes me so angry The other half are so scared of driving on the Motorway that they will sit there without overtaking in the hope they will have to do nothing else but steer.
In the words of my mates Auntie and Uncle [oldpersonswhiningvoice] "we just feel the middle lane is sometimes the safest place to be"[oldpersonswhiningvoice]
More than half the miles I drive each year are in USA on 3 or 4 lane roads. You are encouraged in most States to stay to the right unless passing, but you can pass in any lane. It's actually much less stressful than the UK situation where if you're faced with an empty lane 1 ahead of you and some numpty is in lane 2, the appropriate action is to cross two lanes of traffic to get to lane 3, pass the aforesaid numpty with appropriate coffee bean gesticulations and mouthing verbals, and then cross back again.
In the USA, knowing that traffic can pass you both sides also makes you (or should make you) more aware of what is going on around you. To my knowledge I'm not aware of any evidence in support of US drivers being able to process 360 degree visual signals more effectively than drivers in UK. The size of the trucks/trailers certainly gets your attention when they steam up on your nearside in four lane traffic
In the USA, knowing that traffic can pass you both sides also makes you (or should make you) more aware of what is going on around you. To my knowledge I'm not aware of any evidence in support of US drivers being able to process 360 degree visual signals more effectively than drivers in UK. The size of the trucks/trailers certainly gets your attention when they steam up on your nearside in four lane traffic
hut49 said:Getting out of the HOV lane on Washington's Beltway heading for McLean during the rush hour was pretty stressful
More than half the miles I drive each year are in USA on 3 or 4 lane roads. You are encouraged in most States to stay to the right unless passing, but you can pass in any lane. It's actually much less stressful than the UK situation where if you're faced with an empty lane 1 ahead of you and some numpty is in lane 2, the appropriate action is to cross two lanes of traffic to get to lane 3, pass the aforesaid numpty with appropriate coffee bean gesticulations and mouthing verbals, and then cross back again.
In the USA, knowing that traffic can pass you both sides also makes you (or should make you) more aware of what is going on around you. To my knowledge I'm not aware of any evidence in support of US drivers being able to process 360 degree visual signals more effectively than drivers in UK. The size of the trucks/trailers certainly gets your attention when they steam up on your nearside in four lane traffic
- StreakySome interesting comments.
In Switzerland I take a hire car from Geneva to Fribourg where my head office is. The journey is all 2 lane motorway. Depending on the time of day, depends on the amount of traffic. But I have to say that whatever the traffic conditions from light to heavy, after overtaking, EVERYONE pulls over to the nearside to leave the OVERTAKING lane free.
Tony, your comments are what I'm looking for. Why, on a 3 lane motorway do people take to the middle lane when the inside (slow traffic) lane is free or light of traffic? As an individual Policeman, how can you possibly educate the entire driving public, or everyone on your patch?
Take an aerial view of a 3 lane motorway on a normal day and you will see the left lane (Slow lane) with very light activity, the middle lane busier with traffic passing the slow lane (or people in the comfort zone), and the outside lane or OVERTAKING lane FULL with cars, vans and even the odd rental truck all lined up bumper to bumper. WHY?
Who can take responsibility to educate (or make law)other than individual trafpol the driving public what is correct and safe?
Or, does everyone addopt the US style of motorway or freeway driving?
20 years ago I used to rep in the north (Wales, Humberside up to Inverness) and drive 50 - 60,000 miles pa. As posted here, lane discipline on motorways has got worse over the years. Is it possible (or how is it possible) to correct this trend?
Cheers,
Ian.
>> Edited by 3rtt on Sunday 14th December 20:41
In Switzerland I take a hire car from Geneva to Fribourg where my head office is. The journey is all 2 lane motorway. Depending on the time of day, depends on the amount of traffic. But I have to say that whatever the traffic conditions from light to heavy, after overtaking, EVERYONE pulls over to the nearside to leave the OVERTAKING lane free.
Tony, your comments are what I'm looking for. Why, on a 3 lane motorway do people take to the middle lane when the inside (slow traffic) lane is free or light of traffic? As an individual Policeman, how can you possibly educate the entire driving public, or everyone on your patch?
Take an aerial view of a 3 lane motorway on a normal day and you will see the left lane (Slow lane) with very light activity, the middle lane busier with traffic passing the slow lane (or people in the comfort zone), and the outside lane or OVERTAKING lane FULL with cars, vans and even the odd rental truck all lined up bumper to bumper. WHY?
Who can take responsibility to educate (or make law)other than individual trafpol the driving public what is correct and safe?
Or, does everyone addopt the US style of motorway or freeway driving?
20 years ago I used to rep in the north (Wales, Humberside up to Inverness) and drive 50 - 60,000 miles pa. As posted here, lane discipline on motorways has got worse over the years. Is it possible (or how is it possible) to correct this trend?
Cheers,
Ian.
>> Edited by 3rtt on Sunday 14th December 20:41
It's all started because there are now more women drivers on the road. Most are s**t scared, and too afraid to accelerator to safety to complete their overtaking manoeuvre and get back into a safe position back in the inside lane when they've finished overatking. They don't see overtaking as a manoeuvre, they just follow the car in front like sheep. The same applies to most old people too.
The speed limits don't help either, especially with little runabout cars easily able to achieve the 70mph. Once most law abiding citizens get up to the 70mph, they're too scared to break the law by going to, say, 85mph, to achieve an overtaking manoeuvre. As such a lot of the time all three lanes are doing the same speed.
If you did away with the speed limits on motorways, the scared drivers would sit in the inside lane being too scared to venture into the 2nd and 3rd lanes, leaving those 2 lanes free for drivers who know how to overtake and complete the manoeuvre by returning to the left hand side of the road. The law of the jungle would deter the numpties.
I know the idea of doing away with the speed limit sounds stupid, but IMO it would be a bit like having 24hrs licensing laws for pubs to stop drunkenness. More is less.
Alternatively, I and a select bunch of motorist should be issued with heat seeking missiles, and we would patrol the motorways and send miscreants to oblivion.
The speed limits don't help either, especially with little runabout cars easily able to achieve the 70mph. Once most law abiding citizens get up to the 70mph, they're too scared to break the law by going to, say, 85mph, to achieve an overtaking manoeuvre. As such a lot of the time all three lanes are doing the same speed.
If you did away with the speed limits on motorways, the scared drivers would sit in the inside lane being too scared to venture into the 2nd and 3rd lanes, leaving those 2 lanes free for drivers who know how to overtake and complete the manoeuvre by returning to the left hand side of the road. The law of the jungle would deter the numpties.
I know the idea of doing away with the speed limit sounds stupid, but IMO it would be a bit like having 24hrs licensing laws for pubs to stop drunkenness. More is less.
Alternatively, I and a select bunch of motorist should be issued with heat seeking missiles, and we would patrol the motorways and send miscreants to oblivion.
A lot of the problem of drivers joining the motorway and moving directly into lane 3 is caused by the large magnets fitted to the drivers door of all BMW's, dragging them towards the central barrier (similarly they can't break free until the last minute when leaving the motorway)
The hisoric slang of 'Slow Lane' used for lane 1 has tended to instill the incorrect idea that the actual speed you are driving at dictates which lane you should be in.
Perhaps changing the overtaking laws to allow overtaking in any lane would help encourage those drivers who feel safer in lane 2, to use lane 1.
Be interesting to hear what the BiB's view on this is?
The hisoric slang of 'Slow Lane' used for lane 1 has tended to instill the incorrect idea that the actual speed you are driving at dictates which lane you should be in.
Perhaps changing the overtaking laws to allow overtaking in any lane would help encourage those drivers who feel safer in lane 2, to use lane 1.
Be interesting to hear what the BiB's view on this is?
Part of the problem is that the railways have been allowed to run down. In France and other countries where rail carries a large proportion of freight because they have branch lines (mostly axed in the UK in the 1960s) to get stuff to where people want it, the number of lorries on motorways is relatively small.
In the UK on the other hand, as streaky has pointed out the inside lane is often bumpy and rutted because of 44-tonne lorries creaming up the surface 24 hours a day. Tramlining makes a car harder to control so many move to lane 2 to avoid it. It's not the whole explanation (for that see passim) but it's part of the problem.
In the UK on the other hand, as streaky has pointed out the inside lane is often bumpy and rutted because of 44-tonne lorries creaming up the surface 24 hours a day. Tramlining makes a car harder to control so many move to lane 2 to avoid it. It's not the whole explanation (for that see passim) but it's part of the problem.
There are really a whole raft of issues here. Firstly 25 years of criminal negligence on the part of various governments has rendered our motorway system usesless in comparison to those on the continent. The simple fact is that 2 roads north to south for a population of almost 30 million cars is laughable. Since the temporary 70 limit came into force this has given rise to poor lane discipline which causes further congestion. The maintenance of a club for lazy idle railway workers which maens the funds that should have developed the inter city freight system have been divered to prop up hardly used branch lines means more waggons using motorways. This means that for the most part both of the roads north south have had not 1 but several sets of roadworks on them for the last 20 years. This means we do not really have any viable motorways except for a few weeks after they open a new one which has not happened for some time unless you count the money stealing excercise in trying to convince the population that David Begg is other than stark staring mad.
BIBs - what are the rules regarding undertaking people who insist on hogging the outside lane? As I understand it when queues are formed on motorways the inside lanes (slower ones) are allowed to "undertake" the outer ones - but how does one define queues in this sense? I was coming down the A3 between London and Guildford this morning and saw this phenomena on a number of occasions this morning - outside lane nose to tail moving at 60mph middle lane the occasional car or van every 500 - 600 metres and nothing in the inside lane most of the time!!
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