The war on speeding
Discussion
(a bit long, sorry)
"Speed kills". Now as we know, this is a fallacy. Speed doesn't kill, crashing kills. However it has become a catchy slogan for the likes of BRAKE, Transport 2000 etc to unite under. To that end we have seen the rise in the "Safety Camera Partnerships" which, seemingly overnight, have set up large bureaucratic organisations, some with many staff, and as we discuss on here daily, the policies have shifted from sensible road policy to 'more cameras = more safety ( + more revenue)'.
We know the figures are massaged to make it look like people exceeding the speed limit are the majority cause of accidents - we even read about people who claim the partnerships are fiddling the figures to make it look like people are speeding - but this goes on to become government policy and becomes the sole reason for the Safety Partnerships' existence, at the expense of public money. This is not right.
Meanwhile the 'general motoring public' are unwilling or unable to put up any form of cohesive resistance. You may get the odd interview with the RAC, AA, or Paul at Safespeed, but there is no universal organisation trying to counter this claim. Autocar and site members here are doing a good job to raise public awareness, but where is the large-scale motoring pressure group? Where is the rival to BRAKE, Transport 2000, etc., who will get asked to appear on air by Channel 4 and the BBC, and discuss road policy with Richard Brunstrom or BRAKE or anyone else?
If BRAKE can get funding and support from all those companies, I cannot believe that a similar, motorist-friendly organisation could not do the same. There is surely enough support from the automotive industry - at all levels - to reunite under a common banner, to fund an organisation to promote road safety, which can attempt to fight these organisations' claims; all the time ensuring they don't come across as representing "fast road drivers who want to speed with impunity" but "responsible road users who want all avenues of road safety explored". If BRAKE can do it with their "speed kills" mantra, so can any other pressure group.
Until this happens, we can expect the way of motoring life to change, with more and more roads moved to a 30 "because it's easier"; I'm very worried about speed restriction measures ("well it must be safer") and on a more sinister level, the European policy to make everyone equal (current policy to get people out of cars and on public transport). In short, motoring as a hobby will become antisocial (is it already?), and will eventually die.
It would be ideal if the Opposition took the Government to task over it as well, but as they haven't bothered to do it on any other policy for the last six years, I don't expect them to start now
What is the ideal solution? In my opinion it's higher levels of traffic police and ANPR type setups, backed up by safely designed roads and junctions with speed limits set to the optimium point (85th percentile?), and stricter punishments for uninsured, unregistered drivers.
"Speed kills". Now as we know, this is a fallacy. Speed doesn't kill, crashing kills. However it has become a catchy slogan for the likes of BRAKE, Transport 2000 etc to unite under. To that end we have seen the rise in the "Safety Camera Partnerships" which, seemingly overnight, have set up large bureaucratic organisations, some with many staff, and as we discuss on here daily, the policies have shifted from sensible road policy to 'more cameras = more safety ( + more revenue)'.
We know the figures are massaged to make it look like people exceeding the speed limit are the majority cause of accidents - we even read about people who claim the partnerships are fiddling the figures to make it look like people are speeding - but this goes on to become government policy and becomes the sole reason for the Safety Partnerships' existence, at the expense of public money. This is not right.
Meanwhile the 'general motoring public' are unwilling or unable to put up any form of cohesive resistance. You may get the odd interview with the RAC, AA, or Paul at Safespeed, but there is no universal organisation trying to counter this claim. Autocar and site members here are doing a good job to raise public awareness, but where is the large-scale motoring pressure group? Where is the rival to BRAKE, Transport 2000, etc., who will get asked to appear on air by Channel 4 and the BBC, and discuss road policy with Richard Brunstrom or BRAKE or anyone else?
If BRAKE can get funding and support from all those companies, I cannot believe that a similar, motorist-friendly organisation could not do the same. There is surely enough support from the automotive industry - at all levels - to reunite under a common banner, to fund an organisation to promote road safety, which can attempt to fight these organisations' claims; all the time ensuring they don't come across as representing "fast road drivers who want to speed with impunity" but "responsible road users who want all avenues of road safety explored". If BRAKE can do it with their "speed kills" mantra, so can any other pressure group.
Until this happens, we can expect the way of motoring life to change, with more and more roads moved to a 30 "because it's easier"; I'm very worried about speed restriction measures ("well it must be safer") and on a more sinister level, the European policy to make everyone equal (current policy to get people out of cars and on public transport). In short, motoring as a hobby will become antisocial (is it already?), and will eventually die.
It would be ideal if the Opposition took the Government to task over it as well, but as they haven't bothered to do it on any other policy for the last six years, I don't expect them to start now
What is the ideal solution? In my opinion it's higher levels of traffic police and ANPR type setups, backed up by safely designed roads and junctions with speed limits set to the optimium point (85th percentile?), and stricter punishments for uninsured, unregistered drivers.
[quote=john_pIt would be ideal if the Opposition took the Government to task over it as well, but as they haven't bothered to do it on any other policy for the last six years, I don't expect them to start now
[/quote]
Completely agree with your comments but wanted to comment on this one - the Cons are taking steps to try and position themselves as a little more sensitive to the situation on speed cameras / motorway speed limited etc.... but the problem they face is that they risk being called speed freaks if they do it too obviously.... groups such as BRAKE will then turn their lies and PR machine and have a go at them.... opposition is not an option....
Who said we have a democracy?
[/quote]
Completely agree with your comments but wanted to comment on this one - the Cons are taking steps to try and position themselves as a little more sensitive to the situation on speed cameras / motorway speed limited etc.... but the problem they face is that they risk being called speed freaks if they do it too obviously.... groups such as BRAKE will then turn their lies and PR machine and have a go at them.... opposition is not an option....
Who said we have a democracy?
john_p said:
Meanwhile the 'general motoring public' are unwilling or unable to put up any form of cohesive resistance. You may get the odd interview with the RAC, AA, or Paul at Safespeed, but there is no universal organisation trying to counter this claim. Autocar and site members here are doing a good job to raise public awareness, but where is the large-scale motoring pressure group? Where is the rival to BRAKE, Transport 2000, etc., who will get asked to appear on air by Channel 4 and the BBC, and discuss road policy with Richard Brunstrom or BRAKE or anyone else?
How about the ABD? Surely if enough people join they will be able to get something done? Trouble is, not enough motorists know about them.
The S.A.F.E.R. petition at www.saferroads.co.uk was set up to do pretty much what's proposed here. Unfortunately, without support from the media or the public it won't make any difference.
Big problem is that all most people are prepared to do is whinge about the situation while not being prepared to get off their arses and actually try and do something about it.
There was a meeting in north Wales a few weeks back to complain about the situation in the land of Brunstrom. Maybe the only way forward is to hold similar meetings all over the UK and then together organise a national movement.
Always assuming anybody could actually be bothered to turn up...
Big problem is that all most people are prepared to do is whinge about the situation while not being prepared to get off their arses and actually try and do something about it.
There was a meeting in north Wales a few weeks back to complain about the situation in the land of Brunstrom. Maybe the only way forward is to hold similar meetings all over the UK and then together organise a national movement.
Always assuming anybody could actually be bothered to turn up...
What we need is a mole or insider in one of this organisations for find out what's really going on. Maybe now that speed cameras are a big issues in the press, maybe it's time one of the journos took this idea up - someone like that chap from the Mirror who got jobs as a prison guard etc with a faked job history 
grahambell said:
Big problem is that all most people are prepared to do is whinge about the situation while not being prepared to get off their arses and actually try and do something about it.
That's very true, I think one day we may discover that all the roads are 30mph for "safety", our cars are all GPS locked to 30mph maximum, plus stringent tax rises on cars have meant getting a bus is the only way to get to work!
deltaf said:
That's the problem, nobody knows about them, so they are unfortunately relegated to the "mad speed lovers mowing down children outside schools" brigade.
So how come BRAKE are so succesful but the ABD are not?
Cos ABD tells the truth, and brake are simply liars.....
Unfortunately true, but unfortunately for us we can't wheel out maimed victims and deceased's families and blame their fate on something as vague as 'speeding'.
The only emotive angle I can see working is highlighting people who have had their wellbeing/means to work taken away from them, but the numpty brigade won't care, as work means making money that could otherwise be spent on solving 3rd world debt.
Best just to be rational about it and point out the massive human and financial costs (not to mention the damage done to the reputation/effectiveness of the Police force) which could be spent more usefully elsewhere.
The ABD are that organisation. They are the ones always asked to present the drivers' perspectives.
There'll be more stuff soon no doubt. I just had some journo on the phone from Associated Press trying to get a quote out of me. I refused as I had no idea what context it was going to be used in. Please keep 'em peeled for a mention of PH nevertheless
There'll be more stuff soon no doubt. I just had some journo on the phone from Associated Press trying to get a quote out of me. I refused as I had no idea what context it was going to be used in. Please keep 'em peeled for a mention of PH nevertheless
PetrolTed said:
The ABD are that organisation. They are the ones always asked to present the drivers' perspectives.
Yep. Everyone: If you haven't joined up already then do so now.
As to having a "mole" in safety organisations - I'm a member of the IAM and of RoADA (shortly to try my ROSPA test and I'm really going to go hard for a "gold") - and I DO try to influence (at least at a local level).
Of course. In both the IAM and RoADA you'll find a great many like-thinking individuals who don't think cameras are the way forward either (at least at the grass-roots level)...so a "mole" isn't really much use there.
Nope. Someone's got to pretend to be mad for a bit. Couldn't do it myself.
Drive safely, everyone...
The lentillists on Guardian Talk are getting all excited about speeding. Quote:
This is like a game of Chinese whispers. Give it another week and they'll be claiming that ABD members gang-raped Cherie Blair.
At least they haven't mentioned PH. (Yet)
random lentillist said:
Why does the Mail call for tougher penalties for law breakers except when they break the road laws?
Because the media are generally pliant when lobbied by homicidally ignorant pressure groups like the Association of British Drivers, whose member (sic) sent death threats to a safety campaigner when she supported speed cameras. The ABD has a website filled with highly dubious "statistics" and tenuous research. They are highly dangerous.
This is like a game of Chinese whispers. Give it another week and they'll be claiming that ABD members gang-raped Cherie Blair.
At least they haven't mentioned PH. (Yet)
judas said:
What we need is a mole or insider in one of this organisations for find out what's really going on.
Sometime last year there was a job advertisied locally doing some part time writing on behalf of the local police authority, so needing the cash I asked for more info.
Although it didn't say as much, reading between the lines it was obvious they wanted someone to churn out excuses for their bloody 'smile camera' schemes.
Not really the job for me somehow. Might have had some interesting moments though, especially with working for PH. Just imagine the reaction of the 'kill your speed' lot if one day I'd turned up for work in the 190mph DB7 GT...
bangernomics said:
The lentillists on Guardian Talk are getting all excited about speeding. Quote:
random lentillist said:
Why does the Mail call for tougher penalties for law breakers except when they break the road laws?
Because the media are generally pliant when lobbied by homicidally ignorant pressure groups like the Association of British Drivers, whose member (sic) sent death threats to a safety campaigner when she supported speed cameras. The ABD has a website filled with highly dubious "statistics" and tenuous research. They are highly dangerous.
This is like a game of Chinese whispers. Give it another week and they'll be claiming that ABD members gang-raped Cherie Blair.
At least they haven't mentioned PH. (Yet)
I'd worry - looks like they treat just about any group even remotely connected with cars as an extremist offshoot of the BNP.
We need to make them look like Stalinists if they want to play dirty like that, which shouldn't be too difficult.
PetrolTed said:
The ABD are that organisation. They are the ones always asked to present the drivers' perspectives.
No offence but whenever I've seen anyone from the ABD on television they appear not to know their ass from their elbow when it comes to public relations.
They look like speed freaks even to me (and I'm pro-car), goodness knows what the average member of the public thinks.
Who is on our side?
ABD? Yes
Safespeed? Yes, but really has anyone away from PH ever heard of them?
RAC? Occasionally
AA? NO
BRAKE? NO
Roadpeace? NO
Transport 2000? NO
DfT? NO
Lib Dems? NO
Conservatives? Occasionally
Labour? NO
Greens? NO
EU? NO
Who the hell is on our side??? You might say much of the law-abiding motoring public but I don't see them taking any action.
oyster said:
The ABD are that organisation. They are the ones always asked to present the drivers' perspectives.
No offence but whenever I've seen anyone from the ABD on television they appear not to know their ass from their elbow when it comes to public relations.
Agreed. It's the one thing that's put me off writing the check on a number of occasions. It does sometimes seem that they've missed the point just to ensure that they are arguing against BRAKE/T2000/Labour's point.
As has been said, the anti-car brigade have the emotive arguments to fall back on. But more than that, they're well practiced at using them. If they get a difficult question, they can immediately respond with an emotive point about poor little Millie knocked down in front of her mother's eyes without a bat of an eyelid. When the ABD or someone get's a difficult question they often appear flustered and have to think on the spot.
The questions are the same time and time again. Paul Smith has got most of the answers on SafeSpeed, the people getting up in front of the media just need to know it well enough to be able to respond smoothly and without hesitation.
oyster said:
Who is on our side?
ABD? Yes
Safespeed? Yes, but really has anyone away from PH ever heard of them?
Safe Speed now gets 250,000 page views each month, so I'd say we're doing better than you think. I supply information in response to personal request to at least half a dozen journalists in the average day too.
oyster said:
RAC? Occasionally
AA? NO
BRAKE? NO
Roadpeace? NO
Transport 2000? NO
DfT? NO
Lib Dems? NO
Conservatives? Occasionally
Labour? NO
Greens? NO
EU? NO
Who the hell is on our side??? You might say much of the law-abiding motoring public but I don't see them taking any action.
Never forget the power of the press. We can count the following as regular or constant supporters:
Daily Mail
The Telegraph
The Times
The Sun
The News of the World
The Mail on Sunday
Autocar
And I'm sure many more.
But don't forget what we're up against. The Camera Partnerships have serious publicity budgets - 5 to 10% of turnover is recommended - and that amounts to 10 to 20 millions pounds per annum.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
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