M4 & M5 scamera invasion imminent!
Discussion
[url]www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=86419&command=displayContent&sourceNode=86416&contentPK=8547334[/url]
NOW FOR THE MOTORWAYS
11:00 - 19 January 2004
Speed cameras are to be introduced on the busiest motorway routes around Bristol. The Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership will send out six mobile camera units within the next six months after calls from the Highways Agency, which is concerned about the number of accidents in the area.
But the decision has been branded nonsense by a motoring organisation which says motorways are statistically the safest places to drive.
The patrols will be sited on bridges over the M4 motorway from junction 18 near Tormarton, to the Almondsbury Interchange, and from there down the M5 to junction 19, at Portbury.
Fixed cameras could follow if the mobile units do not reduce the number of accidents. It will be the first time the Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership has installed speed cameras on a motorway other than at roadworks. Only a handful of cameras are used on motorways around the country.
A speed camera on the M11 in Essex became notorious in 2000 after it caught 2,000 motorists breaking the law in the 24 hours after it was introduced.
Dave Gollicker, spokesman for the Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership, said: "The Highways Agency, as one of our partners, approached us with concern about the number of accidents and fatalities that there have been on that stretch of the motorway. We carried out our research to see whether it met the criteria and it does.
"We will be putting up signs on the motorway to start with to let people know what we are doing and we will be introducing the mobile units within the next six months.
"People may feel that they are safe on the motorway going at 75 to 80mph and that there are few hazards. But when something goes wrong the problems are far worse and it is much more difficult to deal with it at speed." It is expected only three or four patrols will operate at any one time with cameras stationed on bridges across the motorways.
Mobile units can only be placed within a kilometre of an area where at least two people have been killed or seriously injured in accidents during the previous three years. Fixed cameras may only be used if there have been at least four deaths and serious injuries in the same period, or eight serious accidents.
Edmund King, from the RAC Foundation, said the Department For Transport (DFT) should change the way speed camera partnerships work.
He said: "Placing cameras on motorways goes against the DFT's own guidance which says motorways are actually the safest roads to drive on, and the statistics back this up.
"At busy interchanges like Almondsbury, traffic is slowed right down to 40 or 50mph, and the worst kind of accident you get is a shunt. When the motorway is back to full speed, it is actually at its safest, so putting cameras on there is just a nonsense.
"I think the DFT should actually review the role of the safety camera partnerships because what they should be doing is actually targeting areas which have the most accidents, not motorways." The Avon and Somerset gives the locations of all its cameras on its website www.safecam.org.uk
Edited to add:
why can't they go catch some REAL criminals??!!
>>> Edited by flooritforever on Monday 19th January 11:30
NOW FOR THE MOTORWAYS
11:00 - 19 January 2004
Speed cameras are to be introduced on the busiest motorway routes around Bristol. The Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership will send out six mobile camera units within the next six months after calls from the Highways Agency, which is concerned about the number of accidents in the area.
But the decision has been branded nonsense by a motoring organisation which says motorways are statistically the safest places to drive.
The patrols will be sited on bridges over the M4 motorway from junction 18 near Tormarton, to the Almondsbury Interchange, and from there down the M5 to junction 19, at Portbury.
Fixed cameras could follow if the mobile units do not reduce the number of accidents. It will be the first time the Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership has installed speed cameras on a motorway other than at roadworks. Only a handful of cameras are used on motorways around the country.
A speed camera on the M11 in Essex became notorious in 2000 after it caught 2,000 motorists breaking the law in the 24 hours after it was introduced.
Dave Gollicker, spokesman for the Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership, said: "The Highways Agency, as one of our partners, approached us with concern about the number of accidents and fatalities that there have been on that stretch of the motorway. We carried out our research to see whether it met the criteria and it does.
"We will be putting up signs on the motorway to start with to let people know what we are doing and we will be introducing the mobile units within the next six months.
"People may feel that they are safe on the motorway going at 75 to 80mph and that there are few hazards. But when something goes wrong the problems are far worse and it is much more difficult to deal with it at speed." It is expected only three or four patrols will operate at any one time with cameras stationed on bridges across the motorways.
Mobile units can only be placed within a kilometre of an area where at least two people have been killed or seriously injured in accidents during the previous three years. Fixed cameras may only be used if there have been at least four deaths and serious injuries in the same period, or eight serious accidents.
Edmund King, from the RAC Foundation, said the Department For Transport (DFT) should change the way speed camera partnerships work.
He said: "Placing cameras on motorways goes against the DFT's own guidance which says motorways are actually the safest roads to drive on, and the statistics back this up.
"At busy interchanges like Almondsbury, traffic is slowed right down to 40 or 50mph, and the worst kind of accident you get is a shunt. When the motorway is back to full speed, it is actually at its safest, so putting cameras on there is just a nonsense.
"I think the DFT should actually review the role of the safety camera partnerships because what they should be doing is actually targeting areas which have the most accidents, not motorways." The Avon and Somerset gives the locations of all its cameras on its website www.safecam.org.uk
Edited to add:
why can't they go catch some REAL criminals??!! >>> Edited by flooritforever on Monday 19th January 11:30
news article said:
The Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership will send out six mobile camera units within the next six months after calls from the Highways Agency, which is concerned about the number of accidents in the area.
Too many accidents eh? Must be speeding to blame.....
MORONIC GUARDIANISTA TYPE SCUM WHO ARE IGNORING THE STATISTICS TO CARRY OUT THEIR OWN ANTI MOTORISTS AGENDA. Can you imagine how many cars are going to be slamming the anchors on whenever they think they see a mobile scamera unit now. It's going to become rear shunt city. A
ing disgrace. Silverback, this is your turf, can't imagine you're too happy with this development
DAZ
Rob P said:
news article said:
The Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership will send out six mobile camera units within the next six months after calls from the Highways Agency, which is concerned about the number of accidents in the area.
Too many accidents eh? Must be speeding to blame.....
The thing that gets me is that Avon & Somerset police are introducing a zero tollerance policy on mobile phones and driving from today. No doubt they will be enforcing this on the same routes as the scameras will be in, but the scameras will take all the credit for any reduction in accidents and use it as an excuse to put in fixed Gatsos.
Dazren: it's also my turf and I'm well p
ed, fed and other words ending in off about it. It's not necessary, and it's purely another excuse to cash in on the already besieged motorist. >> Edited by flooritforever on Monday 19th January 11:41
flooritforever said:
news article said:
The Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership will send out six mobile camera units within the next six months after calls from the Highways Agency, which is concerned about the number of accidents in the area.
Too many accidents eh? Must be speeding to blame.....
The thing that gets me is that Avon & Somerset police are introducing a zero tollerance policy on mobile phones and driving from today. No doubt they will be enforcing this on the same routes as the scameras will be in, but the scameras will take all the credit for any reduction in accidents and use it as an excuse to put in fixed Gatsos.
That sounds about right!
Rob P said:
The Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership will send out six mobile camera units within the next six months after calls from the Highways Agency, which is concerned about the number of accidents in the area.
Too many accidents eh? Must be speeding to blame.....
Absolutely - I frequently drive this section of road and I will admit that it busy most of the day. As a result if you can maintain 80MPH then fantastic, you are doing better than 99% of the other drivers at the time.
Its not speeding and all down to dangerous braking (well noted Ted) and people who dont read the flaming road signs..... speed cameras will do nothing to ease this and its NOT SPEED thats the danger here....
P.S. I though you couldnt put a speed camera on a motorway unless it was a lower than normal speed limit - i.e. 50MPH or through road works. Any ideas?
an idiot from avon and somerset said:
Fixed cameras could follow if the mobile units do not reduce the number of accidents.
So if mobile scamera units dont work(they keep telling us they do) then theyll install Fixed cameras, which also dont work (which they tell us they do)......
Er.....hmmm...so whats the point? Tis obviously not a *speeding* problem.....comprende?
>> Edited by deltaf on Monday 19th January 11:54
deltaf said:
Fixed cameras could follow if the mobile units do not reduce the number of accidents.
So if mobile scamera units dont work(they keep telling us they do) then theyll install Fixed cameras, which also dont work (which they tell us they do)......
Er.....hmmm...so whats the point? Tis obviously not a *speeding* problem.....comprende?
I didnt see that bit!!!
Don't know about anyone else here, but I'm paranoid about ANY van/car on motorway bridges now. I spend more time watching bridges than the bloody road, even if I know I'm under 70mph, and that can't be right.
You know what will happen don't you.....mobile cameras will increase panic braking and shunts, the partnership will voice their "dissapointment" and boom!, in go the Gatsos/SPECS. Result? Accidents will fall back down to the same level as pre mobile introduction and the partnerships will claim it as a resounding success for the cameras, which will subsequently stay there raking in the cash without reducing casualties. You can see it coming a mile off....
If you ask me (which nobody will), a camera should only be declared anything like a success if the accident rate falls SIGNIFICANTLY below the lowest levels recorded in the pre camera era. We need yearly accident figures available upon request, an end to the culture of secrecy, and most importantly we need to seperate "killed" from "seriously injured" in the statistics to stop the figures being abused so badly. What good is a 35% reduction in overall KSI if the "K" element has increased? Great, you've got less people with whiplash and minor cuts, but you're scraping more corpses off the road - what a successful strategy. One way of reducing congestion I suppose...
You know what will happen don't you.....mobile cameras will increase panic braking and shunts, the partnership will voice their "dissapointment" and boom!, in go the Gatsos/SPECS. Result? Accidents will fall back down to the same level as pre mobile introduction and the partnerships will claim it as a resounding success for the cameras, which will subsequently stay there raking in the cash without reducing casualties. You can see it coming a mile off....
If you ask me (which nobody will), a camera should only be declared anything like a success if the accident rate falls SIGNIFICANTLY below the lowest levels recorded in the pre camera era. We need yearly accident figures available upon request, an end to the culture of secrecy, and most importantly we need to seperate "killed" from "seriously injured" in the statistics to stop the figures being abused so badly. What good is a 35% reduction in overall KSI if the "K" element has increased? Great, you've got less people with whiplash and minor cuts, but you're scraping more corpses off the road - what a successful strategy. One way of reducing congestion I suppose...
flooritforever said:
Speed cameras are to be introduced on the busiest motorway routes around Bristol.
flooritforever said:And did those criteria include whether the KSIs were casued by speeds in excess of the limit? Somehow I doubt it!
Dave Gollicker, spokesman for the Avon and Somerset Safety Camera Partnership, said: "The Highways Agency, as one of our partners, approached us with concern about the number of accidents and fatalities that there have been on that stretch of the motorway. We carried out our research to see whether it met the criteria and it does.
flooritforever said:70 plus 10% plus 2 = 79mph. Does this suggest a lower than ACPO recommendation will be imposed?
"People may feel that they are safe on the motorway going at 75 to 80mph ...
flooritforever said:So, are they expecting the number of accidents to rise with the advent of the mobile scameras ... leading to the introduction of fixed scameras? Looks like it. How cynical!
Fixed cameras could follow if the mobile units do not reduce the number of accidents. [ ... ] Mobile units can only be placed within a kilometre of an area where at least two people have been killed or seriously injured in accidents during the previous three years. Fixed cameras may only be used if there have been at least four deaths and serious injuries in the same period, or eight serious accidents.
Streaky
I have just had another horrible thought.
There has long been talk of widening sections of the M5 in this area to reduce congestion. I expect it will mainly mean 'crawler' lanes for lorries on the hills in the area, giving the bulk of traffic the freedom to maintain speed up the hills.
As it is easy enough to put the throttle down just a bit too much and end up speeding when compensating for the hill, I expect these crawler lanes will be implemented, and cameras will be placed at the top to catch all those who have crept over the speed limit in this way. Lovely
>> Edited by flooritforever on Monday 19th January 12:24
There has long been talk of widening sections of the M5 in this area to reduce congestion. I expect it will mainly mean 'crawler' lanes for lorries on the hills in the area, giving the bulk of traffic the freedom to maintain speed up the hills.
As it is easy enough to put the throttle down just a bit too much and end up speeding when compensating for the hill, I expect these crawler lanes will be implemented, and cameras will be placed at the top to catch all those who have crept over the speed limit in this way. Lovely
>> Edited by flooritforever on Monday 19th January 12:24
flooritforever said:
I have just had another horrible thought.
There has long been talk of widening sections of the M5 in this area to reduce congestion. I expect it will mainly mean 'crawler' lanes for lorries on the hills in the area, giving the bulk of traffic the freedom to maintain speed up the hills.
As it is easy enough to put the throttle down just a bit too much and end up speeding when compensating for the hill, I expect these crawler lanes will be implemented, and cameras will be placed at the top to catch all those who have crept over the speed limit in this way. Lovely
>> Edited by flooritforever on Monday 19th January 12:24
Or at the bottom of the downhill stretch on the other carrigeway!
Rob P said:
Or at the bottom of the downhill stretch on the other carrigeway!
Yes. Horrible thought part two there.
And I doubt Captain Gatso can get at cameras on the motorways too, so there won't even be the prospect of temporary relief. Not that I condone that sort of thing, of course.
Ive just sent this to the papers...
M4-M5 speed cameras. (more nonsense).
In a desperate effort to reduce accidents along these stretches of motorway, Avon and Somerset "scamera" partnership have decided to introduce mobile scamera enforcement. Unfortunately theyve lost the plot (and the arguments in regards to safety) by simply doing "more of the same", even though its now beyond doubt that their attempts at fixing a problem thats NOT caused by speed, are flawed and having fatal consequences for the rest of us.
Just when are these morons going to stop playing games with peoples lives?
We are all aware by now that speed cameras (correct name) are NOT working. They dont reduce deaths on the roads at all. And when theyre proved to have had the opposite effects to a reduction in deaths, the "partnerships"-(sounds like The Mob) say such gems as " we dont know what happens away from our cameras".
That sounds very much like "we dont care what happens away from our cameras, cos we're making money".
People are dying because these muppets are making false claims on scamera effectiveness, so called "ksi's" ( they tell us ksi are down, but that deaths are up....obviously what we all want to hear ,not)....so theyre more interested in minor injuries coming down that bereaved families.
To give an example of their entrenched stupidity, read the following passage, believed to originate from Dave Gollicker, head of Avon and Somerset Scammers association:
(an idiot said today)
"Fixed cameras could follow if the mobile units do not reduce the number of accidents."
So the mobile scameras end up failing, people continue to die in the meantime while they "play around", Avon and Somerset scammers make more money(from peoples deaths...fiddling while Rome burns etc) and they still fail to see where theyre going wrong, by then saying theyll install Fixed Scameras! Theyre blinder than Blunkett, and thats saying something!
Spot the problem anyone?
Could it be that theyre looking in the wrong place for their particular "weapons of mass distruction"?
Thanks for listening to my waffle!
M4-M5 speed cameras. (more nonsense).
In a desperate effort to reduce accidents along these stretches of motorway, Avon and Somerset "scamera" partnership have decided to introduce mobile scamera enforcement. Unfortunately theyve lost the plot (and the arguments in regards to safety) by simply doing "more of the same", even though its now beyond doubt that their attempts at fixing a problem thats NOT caused by speed, are flawed and having fatal consequences for the rest of us.
Just when are these morons going to stop playing games with peoples lives?
We are all aware by now that speed cameras (correct name) are NOT working. They dont reduce deaths on the roads at all. And when theyre proved to have had the opposite effects to a reduction in deaths, the "partnerships"-(sounds like The Mob) say such gems as " we dont know what happens away from our cameras".
That sounds very much like "we dont care what happens away from our cameras, cos we're making money".
People are dying because these muppets are making false claims on scamera effectiveness, so called "ksi's" ( they tell us ksi are down, but that deaths are up....obviously what we all want to hear ,not)....so theyre more interested in minor injuries coming down that bereaved families.
To give an example of their entrenched stupidity, read the following passage, believed to originate from Dave Gollicker, head of Avon and Somerset Scammers association:
(an idiot said today)
"Fixed cameras could follow if the mobile units do not reduce the number of accidents."
So the mobile scameras end up failing, people continue to die in the meantime while they "play around", Avon and Somerset scammers make more money(from peoples deaths...fiddling while Rome burns etc) and they still fail to see where theyre going wrong, by then saying theyll install Fixed Scameras! Theyre blinder than Blunkett, and thats saying something!
Spot the problem anyone?
Could it be that theyre looking in the wrong place for their particular "weapons of mass distruction"?
Thanks for listening to my waffle!
puggit said:
There's only one major cause of accidents there - congestion.
It's all about money
Plus the musili munchers have lost sight (or never had it in the first place
) on why accidents happen. The shear tunnel vision they have as seeing speeding as the soul contribution to accidents is the fustrating thing.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff