Trades descriptions act advice needed

[Jonny_]

Can any of you PH'ers proffer any legal/consumer type advice?

Just under 2 years ago I bought a Makita 8444DWDE 18v combi drill (very similar to this: http://www.makitauk.com/index.php?page=36&pid=... except mine only has two 2.6Ah batteries) which until today has been a superb bit of kit for my DIY exploits.

However, this evening the drill lost drive and made some rather nasty grinding noises. Given that it's out of warranty (which only lasted 1 year) I decided to open it up and see if it was fixable.

Lo and behold, a plastic ring in the gearbox (which, for my fellow geeks, is used to lock one or more of the epicyclic geartrains' three annuli to the outer casing to provide a selection of 3 ratios... ) had partially stripped it's teeth.

It appears that it's impossible to just buy one part for the gearbox - it only seems to be sold as a complete unit, costing more than it would cost to buy a new bare drill (i.e. the machine alone, without any batteries, charger or case). So just replacing the faulty part looks out of the question.

My question is: since this drill is an MXT model and as such is advertised by Makita as having an "ALL METAL GEAR BOX", and the cause of the fault is a PLASTIC component inside the gearbox, do I have any kind of recourse under the Trades Descriptions Act despite the drill being out of warranty?

The machine has had only infrequent DIY use and has not been subjected to anything I'd consider as "abuse".

Cheers,
Jonny

[AndrewW-G]

No point, the argument will be that the all metal part is the actual gearbox and not the gears contained within

[Jonny_]

AndrewW-G said:

No point, the argument will be that the all metal part is the actual gearbox and not the gears contained within

Actually the casing which houses the epicyclic gearset is plastic too! (The hammer and torque mechanisms are in a metal casing, but technically that's not the gearbox...)

The gears themelves, at least, ARE metal

[TheEnd]

Write to Makita, tell them how you loved that drill, and how you were gutted when it broke out of warranty, and suprised at the plastic component that wore out despite you buying it for it's all metal long life construction.

[bazking69]

1, it is outside of warranty.
2, even if it was under warranty, this would now be void if you have opened it up.

[Muzzer]

Jonny_ said:

My question is: since this drill is an MXT model and as such is advertised by Makita as having an "ALL METAL GEAR BOX", and the cause of the fault is a PLASTIC component inside the gearbox, do I have any kind of recourse under the Trades Descriptions Act despite the drill being out of warranty?

No.

[motco]

Surely the period of warranty is not relevant if it was mis-sold in the first place? Speak to Trading Standards, they are usually helpful.

[R300_PM]

TheEnd said:

Write to Makita, tell them how you loved that drill, and how you were gutted when it broke out of warranty, and suprised at the plastic component that wore out despite you buying it for it's all metal long life construction.

100% the way to go, you'll probably get a parcel with a new drill.. Worst thing to do is mention 'Trading Standards' first thing as it'll just get their backs up that you haven't given them chance to sort it out first..

[Jonny_]

I rang Makita this morning, after going through the usual rigmarole of trying to explain stuff to some poor young lasses paid to answer phones and make tea I got put through to a much more helpful chap in their workshop.

After explaining the problem to him and mentioning that I was disappointed that the "all metal" gearbox wasn't, he said that as it's out of warranty he couldn't promise anything but if I sent it in he'd have a look at it and see what he can do.

So this afternoon I popped the gearbox in the post (recorded of course) and will wait and see what comes of it. If he can repair or replace the gearbox then I'll be happy (they can send me a whole new drill if they want to, of course, but I'm not angling for that); if not then I'll send a letter and photos in to their head office and make a bit more fuss of the false advertising angle.

bazking69 said:

1, it is outside of warranty.
2, even if it was under warranty, this would now be void if you have opened it up.

Had it been under warranty I wouldn't have bothered opening it up. I'm not looking to make a warranty claim, my point is that a plastic component has failed inside a gearbox described as "all metal".


Worst comes to worst, I'll have wasted a couple of quids' postage and will have to try Trading Standards; however, I'm reasonably hopeful that for the sake of a small gearbox component Makita would prefer to save themselves any potential aggro and hold onto a previously-satisfied customer.

Edited by Jonny_ on Tuesday 8th December 20:05

[Jonny_]

Just to update: a fresh shiny new gearbox arrived on Tuesday and my drill is back in action. Cost me the grand sum of about £2.50 in postage.

Thumbs up to Makita, then - I just hope they stop flogging the things as "all metal"!

Ta to all for advice, seems a polite but firm phone call and a letter can go a long way

Edited by Jonny_ on Thursday 17th December 17:29

[...Karl...]

Jonny_ said:

Just to update: a fresh shiny new gearbox arrived on Tuesday and my drill is back in action. Cost me the grand sum of about £2.50 in postage.

Thumbs up to Makita, then - I just hope they stop flogging the things as "all metal"!

Ta to all for advice, seems a polite but firm phone call and a letter can go a long way

Edited by Jonny_ on Thursday 17th December 17:29

Although I'm in a completely different industry, I make a point of (and enjoy) going out of my way for customers who are polite and realistic about their "predicaments". Those who are arsey get the statutory minimum.

Good result.

[Red Devil]

...Karl... said:

Jonny_ said:

Just to update: a fresh shiny new gearbox arrived on Tuesday and my drill is back in action. Cost me the grand sum of about £2.50 in postage.

Thumbs up to Makita, then - I just hope they stop flogging the things as "all metal"!

Ta to all for advice, seems a polite but firm phone call and a letter can go a long way

Edited by Jonny_ on Thursday 17th December 17:29

Although I'm in a completely different industry, I make a point of (and enjoy) going out of my way for customers who are polite and realistic about their "predicaments". Those who are arsey get the statutory minimum.

Good result.

+1

I wrote my first such letter at the tender age of 12 long before the current consumer laws existed.
The Timex (don't laugh) watch given to me as a birthday present broke after the manufacturer's guarantee ran out.
In the letter I said how much I liked their product but I thought that a reputable brand like theirs should last longer than it did. They wrote back saying they were concerned by my dissatisfaction and asked me to return the watch for examination. The upshot was they repaired it free of charge, reimbursed my postage costs, and extended the warranty by another year. I was well impressed and replied accordingly.

[Cyberprog]

Yep, I'd have to second the advice given here, it tends (as you've found) to return the best outcome for minimal hassle/outlay. And it always leaves the legal route open for you to persue later!

[maser_spyder]

Write a poem.

Always gets a far, far better response than threats or stating their legal obligations.

We see a few complaints come in here and there, suffice to say, the people who approach us respectfully and realistically always always always get a far better service, we'll go out of our way to help. As is said above, the idiots get the statutory minimum we are obliged to offer, sorry.

Funny thing is, we're nice people here, we'd all do our utmost to help people out, but there's always a few you can't please....

I'm sure you'll shout if you need help finding a rhyme for 'gearbox'!

[7db]

I've had the drill for two years
And thought it had metal gears
When it broke (made of plastic)
I felt such a spastic
And I'd like a replacement plearse.

[Jonny_]

Liking the poem idea, buggered if I can make owt rhyme but haiku - Google it - seems like an easy get-out:

"Pish! My drill is bust/plastic gears are not much cop/send me one that works"

[Jonny_]

Well, Christ on a greasy pig, it's almost exactly a year since I changed the 'box and the f***ing thing's at it again! Can't apply a lot of pressure and torque in 3rd (high) gear or it slips and makes an unholy row. Oddly it's fine in 1st and 2nd.

In 2 minds about trying Makita again, if they remember me then they'll probably blame my amateur installation job for the new 'box failing, but on t'other hand yer never know! Other options are (1) buy replacement drill body; new 8444D is about £60-70 without batteries or case, or (2) buy a new drill. This will be sodding expensive and it's pretty hard to find anything as beefy and well-specced as my Makita (80Nm, 3 speed, 2 batteries) without spending ridiuculous money. Plus the DeWalt equivalent (can't remember the model but we've got 'em at work, 18v XRP jobs) is farkin' huge and nowhere near as good in terms of performance!

Apparently the new lithium-powered equivalent to my not-so-faithful 8444 (BHP451?) has similar problems. Bloody poxy drills!

[Who me ?]

Can recommend the Black & Decker version of the De Walt - I've had one of the 18v cordless heavy duty ones ( no mention of torque and only two speed) ,I got over ten years ago when I needed something not mains for my work . It's quite happy shoving a 6mm drill through a double brick wall and even opening it up to 10mm . Had two problems wit it in all that time -one was chuck ( replaced under warranty) and battery/charger ( bout a couple of years ago, after it had been sitting around for a year or two idle). Never had a problem drilling into walls - if the standard bit had problems, I'd change it for an SDS one - lot tougher and Ive seen some walls in my present house cause problems for most drills -but not this one with an SDS bit ( not the done thing, but it works well) .I used it professionally for about four years without any problems
Bit pricy in the recommended outlet( Focus), but probably a lot cheaper on line .Comes with two batteries and it's one hour recharge . If the new HD one's anything as good - (and the trqe has been upped) -it's well worth the money .

[streaky]

Jonny_ said:

Liking the poem idea, buggered if I can make owt rhyme but haiku - Google it - seems like an easy get-out:

"Pish! My drill is bust/plastic gears are not much cop/send me one that works"

That appears to comprise 18 to 20 morae - depending upon whether "pla" (in 'plastic') and "works" are each evaluated as monomoraic or bimoraic, so is, sadly, not of classical haiku form. Also, there is no kigo and arguably no kireji either ... although, "works" might qualify as the latter. As haiku, it should more properly have been written (in English) on three lines.

A very good attempt though.

Streaky

Mora and syllable do not exactly map. Mora is a unit of sound used in phonology to determine the weight of a syllable - S

Edited by streaky on Saturday 18th December 07:17

[voyds9]

I use a drill infrequently and as such see them as disposable items. I buy the cheapest available, get 12 months out of them at which point something breaks and I replace it.