Worn tyres. any advice?
Discussion
I am new to this forum but have been reading through a lot of the previous posts on here and thought that this would be the best place to ask for advice.
A couple of days ago my brother was stopped by plod who were doing spot checks by the side of the road. They quickly looked around his van and informed him that both his rear tyres were worn below the legal tread limit, gave him a producer, and told him that he will be getting a fine and penalty points. They didn't actually measure the tread on each tyre but told him that the tread was less than 1.6mm on both tyres. They also told him that they were putting a prohibition order on his van so that he could not move it from the lay-by until someone had come out to him and changed the tyres. My brother phoned a local mobile tyre fitter who measured the tread on both tyres before putting new ones on and said that the tread depth on both tires was 1.6mm exactly, and has written that down on the receipt that he gave my bro.
Should the plod have actually measured the tread?
And I know that the producer means that he is going to have to take his documents to the nearest police station, but does it mean that they are going to be sending him a NIP?
What sort of fine would he be looking at, and how many points?
Cheers
ME3
A couple of days ago my brother was stopped by plod who were doing spot checks by the side of the road. They quickly looked around his van and informed him that both his rear tyres were worn below the legal tread limit, gave him a producer, and told him that he will be getting a fine and penalty points. They didn't actually measure the tread on each tyre but told him that the tread was less than 1.6mm on both tyres. They also told him that they were putting a prohibition order on his van so that he could not move it from the lay-by until someone had come out to him and changed the tyres. My brother phoned a local mobile tyre fitter who measured the tread on both tyres before putting new ones on and said that the tread depth on both tires was 1.6mm exactly, and has written that down on the receipt that he gave my bro.
Should the plod have actually measured the tread?
And I know that the producer means that he is going to have to take his documents to the nearest police station, but does it mean that they are going to be sending him a NIP?
What sort of fine would he be looking at, and how many points?
Cheers
ME3
when a tyre is found to be 'under the legal limit' by a cop they usually mark the rim of the tyre with yellow chalk.if this was done then your brother could have taken the tyres to court and had them examined in court,also does the producer he was given have the depth of tread measured on each tyre because afaik this is a requirement on the form (ive had it written on them before when i got done in 95)
unfortunatly for your bro most of the time a court will believe a cop as they are supposed to be 'experts',i dont think a mobile tyre fitter holds much weight against this.
also,checking your tyres is something you are meant to do every day anyway......sos it aint good news.
unfortunatly for your bro most of the time a court will believe a cop as they are supposed to be 'experts',i dont think a mobile tyre fitter holds much weight against this.
also,checking your tyres is something you are meant to do every day anyway......sos it aint good news.
If the BiB did not measure the tyres then the job is going nowhere. Only a very select few BiBs are considered "experts." These are traffic Officers, not all traffic Officers, but those who have completed a lengthy course in mechanics/vehicles etc.. and who are qualified to slap a prohibition notice on the vehicle.
In any case, if the tyre is not measured, there is no evidence. I see this time and time again. Probationers give people a VDR (Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme - get is sorted in 14 days = no prosecution) for illegal tyres. Motorist does not sort it out, so the paperwork comes back to BiB for him to produce a prosecution file. As with any proesecution, the case has to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. I look in the Officers notebook, which contains no plan of the tyre no measurement etc... so I instruct the PC to send the form back marked "No Prosecution."
(DVD - help me out here, its a while since I did this!!)
A switched on BiB, will make a plan of the tyre, either in his notebook or a piece of A4. You should mark the central three quarters of the tyre (as this is where you need the 1.6mm on a car - other rules for HGV, etc..) Then sections of the tyre should be measured, in the drivers presence, and marked on the plan, to illustrate the wear pattern and tread depth. I would invite Driver to sign it as being a true record. I would also take a photo of the tyre if practicable - useful if there is cord exposed, splits or its plain bald. You should also note the serial number of the tyre, as well as the make, size, ratings etc... so that Driver cannot produce another tyre in Court.
I knew one hardened gobbler who was not averse to jacking the car up and seizing the whole wheel and tyre!!!
In any case, if the tyre is not measured, there is no evidence. I see this time and time again. Probationers give people a VDR (Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme - get is sorted in 14 days = no prosecution) for illegal tyres. Motorist does not sort it out, so the paperwork comes back to BiB for him to produce a prosecution file. As with any proesecution, the case has to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt. I look in the Officers notebook, which contains no plan of the tyre no measurement etc... so I instruct the PC to send the form back marked "No Prosecution."
(DVD - help me out here, its a while since I did this!!)
A switched on BiB, will make a plan of the tyre, either in his notebook or a piece of A4. You should mark the central three quarters of the tyre (as this is where you need the 1.6mm on a car - other rules for HGV, etc..) Then sections of the tyre should be measured, in the drivers presence, and marked on the plan, to illustrate the wear pattern and tread depth. I would invite Driver to sign it as being a true record. I would also take a photo of the tyre if practicable - useful if there is cord exposed, splits or its plain bald. You should also note the serial number of the tyre, as well as the make, size, ratings etc... so that Driver cannot produce another tyre in Court.
I knew one hardened gobbler who was not averse to jacking the car up and seizing the whole wheel and tyre!!!
ME3 said:
There is nothing about the tyre depth written on the producer and the plod didn't chalk up either of the tryes. In fact, the producer doesn't actually say what offence he was stopped for. It has just got the 'offence' box ticked next to "Justification for Stop"?
Normal practice on both counts im afraid.
The only time that i wouldnt measure the tyre tread depths would be when the level of tread in the central 3/4 of the tyre width was below that of the tread wear indicators, there was/were a bald patch or the ply/cord was exposed.
When going on insufficient tread where there is a pattern then you should be guided by the tread wear indicators.
What are they like on the tyre concerned?
When going on insufficient tread where there is a pattern then you should be guided by the tread wear indicators.
What are they like on the tyre concerned?
No thread or cord showing. My bro said that he knew that they needed changing but thought that they were still within the legal limit. The tyre fitter measured the tread with his gauge as soon as he arrived, and said that they were just on the legal limit. He measued the lowest point at 1.6mm
ME3 said:
Also, can anyone explain to me why my brother issued with a HORT/2 slip and not HORT/1? Excuse my ignorance but what are the differences?
Home Office/Road Traffic/Form 1 is the producer issued by Plod as a reminder as to what documents you show at a later date and with certain information useful to assist the person checking docs.
HO/RT/2 is the form that is used for details of what documents were produced and when. Form them sent back to Plod issuing RT/1.
At least that was what it was. Now great use made of electronic recording.
Don't understand why a driver should finish up with RT/2 maybe Tony Rec will explain?
DVD
Went with my bro this afternoon to take this producer to our local station. The copper at the desk also confirmed that the form that he had was HO/RT/2 and couldn't understand why he had it. Anyway, he still took the details from the form and added them to another HO/RT/2 form(?). He also told us that as far as we are concerned, the matter is dealt with. He said that my bro had complied by taking his documents to the nearest station and that confirmation would be forwarded to the plod that stopped my bro. End of matter, as there were no other details of the event or of the offence commited. Is this true? Or have we got to wait to see if the plod invloved (Thames Valley Plod) takes the matter further?
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