Why did these girls die?
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3472567.stm
Because NUMPTY Mum killed 'em.
I am beginning to get depressed. Lives lost that DRIVER TRAINING would have saved. We're just not doing enough.
And, of course, it will be speed that gets the blame.
Makes me angry.
Because NUMPTY Mum killed 'em.
I am beginning to get depressed. Lives lost that DRIVER TRAINING would have saved. We're just not doing enough.
And, of course, it will be speed that gets the blame.
Makes me angry.
Trouble is Don you can Train,Train, Train but the minute people are left to their own devices the inevitable happens through lack of self discipline because they think they are in a safe cocoon and straight stretch of road what the hell.
Independant witnesses seem to prove the cause. It starts with an S and ends with a G.
A lighter right foot and whilst it is speculation, the outcome may have been less catastrophic?
DVD
Independant witnesses seem to prove the cause. It starts with an S and ends with a G.
A lighter right foot and whilst it is speculation, the outcome may have been less catastrophic?
DVD
apache said:
Can't se it any other way Don, she was driving like an arse, too fast for the conditions. Although I very much doubt a camera would have stopped her
Yep. That's how I see it. She was clearly in such a distracted state that a camera would not have stopped her. Whereas if she had paid the slightest attention to the first chapter of Roadcraft about attitudes she might not have allowed her personal state of agitation to totally override her driving.
No doubt about it that woman killed those two girls because she drove like an arse, at a totally inappropriate speed and why?
Because she was late and stressed...
All it was going to take to save those girls' lives was a deep breath and a phone call to say they'd be late, followed by a normal attentive drive over.
Makes me seethe.
>> Edited by Don on Monday 9th February 15:04
Don said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3472567.stm
Because NUMPTY Mum killed 'em.
I am beginning to get depressed. Lives lost that DRIVER TRAINING would have saved. We're just not doing enough.
And, of course, it will be speed that gets the blame.
Makes me angry.
I wonder what the difference would have been if we'd been giving out messages for the last decade about "safe and appropriate speed"?
Perhaps this particular "numpty" ignored the government lies about speed becuase she knew they were lies.
If the government had been telling the truth, would the outcome have been different? Obviously we can't know in this case - but lying to drivers is clearly dangerous.
Reading between the lines of the news report, I think we can deduce that this accident had "behaviour: in a hurry" as a contributory factor. How about a sensible information campaign about the known dangers of "behaviour: in a hurry"? Lots of accidents are caused by people attempting to drive outside of their normal envelope.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
She was driving dangerously, and paid the price (as did the family of the other girl).
Knowing she was driving dangerously and with that many witnesses makes her daughter's and the other girl's death murder in my book. Send her down for life. It's just lucky she didn't take anyone else with her.
Knowing she was driving dangerously and with that many witnesses makes her daughter's and the other girl's death murder in my book. Send her down for life. It's just lucky she didn't take anyone else with her.
Dwight VanDriver said:
Trouble is Don you can Train,Train, Train but the minute people are left to their own devices the inevitable happens through lack of self discipline because they think they are in a safe cocoon and straight stretch of road what the hell.
Independant witnesses seem to prove the cause. It starts with an S and ends with a G.
A lighter right foot and whilst it is speculation, the outcome may have been less catastrophic?
DVD
This isn't really right - speeding looks like a symptom of the problem behaviour in this case. If we'd eliminated speeding (dream on!) her apparent attitude problem may have manifested itself as a fatal accident when she pulled out into too small a gap instead. Or when she'd tried to take a 40mph bend at a legal 55mph. Or anything.
Surely you can see that her speeding behaviour was just one facet of a problem attitude?
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
I would also ask how the girls came to be found in the ditch rather than in the car. Would they have been thrown from the vehicle if they were wearing their seatbelts? Or does the fact they were thrown from the vehicle imply that they weren't?
So if they weren't wearing seatbelts their deaths are more atributable to that fact than the speeding.
If they were then it sounds like the forces involved were so severe that the woman truely was driving at suicidal speeds.
So if they weren't wearing seatbelts their deaths are more atributable to that fact than the speeding.
If they were then it sounds like the forces involved were so severe that the woman truely was driving at suicidal speeds.
icamm said:
So if they weren't wearing seatbelts their deaths are more atributable to that fact than the speeding.
Very likely.
However the biggest cause was the fact that the car, driven by this woman, slid off the road, into a ditch and rolled at about 70mph.
Not even much over the speed limit.
But clearly a totally inappropriate manouver and speed at which to attempt it.
What could she have been thinking!?!
I personally know PHers who have achieved much higher velocities (must be nearly all of us, I expect) with no risk to themselves or anyone else. Why? Because they were calm, driving within their own limits and that of their vehicle in a professional, skilled manner.
I can't think what it must been like to have been in that car...and I am talking about BEFORE the crash, now...she must have been MAD!
icamm said:
I agree Don if she had not been driving so badly then the crash would not have happened I was just adding the point that this will probably be put down to deaths caused by speeding. Where as the fact of not wearing seat belts is possibly more of a cause in the actual final tragedy.
She remained in the car and survived, the girls didn't. IMO speed (and her inability to control the car) caused the accident. Not wearing seatbelts caused the deaths. F
ing tragic either way.Slight change of subject: I actually faxed my MP over this one.
I don't know if she deserved the sentence or not; but with it being only a week or so after that illegal immigrant ran down someones' kid, and got 8 months for it, I feel it's VERY unjust.
As they say in the article; she handed a very harsh penalty to herself. That added to the sentence is unfair IMO.
I don't know if she deserved the sentence or not; but with it being only a week or so after that illegal immigrant ran down someones' kid, and got 8 months for it, I feel it's VERY unjust.
As they say in the article; she handed a very harsh penalty to herself. That added to the sentence is unfair IMO.
mechsympathy said:
I agree Don if she had not been driving so badly then the crash would not have happened I was just adding the point that this will probably be put down to deaths caused by speeding. Where as the fact of not wearing seat belts is possibly more of a cause in the actual final tragedy.
F
But these little girls were only 12 years old. Driver has responsibility to ensure they are belted up! (pgh 75-76 - pages 19-20 of HC). So, again she contributed to tragedy - if they were REALLY not wearing seatbelts!? (Not mentioned in article???)
Apart from apparently obvious fact that she was driving like an idiot!....Two years may seem lenient to some...she has to live with it for life! She will always wonder how her child would have grown, achieved, developed? And the other one too! For being "in a hurry -- to a birthday party???" Was it really that important? Is anything?
Perhaps if we did have periodic refreshers - concentrating on attitude, awareness, good old fashioned C.O.A.S.T, there would be less tragedies?
Other factors?:
Do not know area, do not know road! Er? Why WAS it so bumpy? And - what WAS the speed limit? What kind of road? Rural? Built-up? Semi-built-up?
They weren't wearing safety belts, and it was a very bumpy road; just saw it on the news.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would have driven down that road at over 80. It was very straight, but so bumpy you'd get airborne (as this woman apparently did) if you took it at speed.
Stupid woman; no doubt about that, but I still think the sentence is unfair.
n.b, the news article was on about her speed for ages; it mentioned the (lack of) seatbelts as an afterthought.
Surely the fact that the only survivor wore one and the two victims didn't deserves highlighting???
I don't think anyone in their right mind would have driven down that road at over 80. It was very straight, but so bumpy you'd get airborne (as this woman apparently did) if you took it at speed.
Stupid woman; no doubt about that, but I still think the sentence is unfair.
n.b, the news article was on about her speed for ages; it mentioned the (lack of) seatbelts as an afterthought.
Surely the fact that the only survivor wore one and the two victims didn't deserves highlighting???
Always wear your seatbelt and stay within the speed limit
Graham.J said:
In my eyes that's manslaughter. The girls weren't belted up (drivers responsibility), she was driving at a inappropriate speed for the conditions and ultimately lost control.
Completely her fault.
Tragic.
Yes; but compare it to that illegal immigrant who mowed-down someone else's kid then drove off.
False drivers' license
No MOT/tax/insurance
Didn't stop after the crash.
He got 2 1/2 years, 8 months for the childs' life, the rest for document offences, but they're reducing those..
The Mother was stupid, reckless and careless, but not IMO criminal.
The speed limit on the road was 60, BTW.
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